DavidTree
Active Member
Yeah Right!!!That's up to you.
Yeah Right!!!That's up to you.
You started it, not me.Yeah Right!!!
You have quoted John 5:25. The dead there are the spiritually dead. Jesus there is speaking of regeneration, the bringing to life of those dead in trespasses and sins, not the raising for the physically dead. The reference to the physically dead and their resurrection is in John 5:28-29.Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says
SHALOM
Yes it is. All mornings that I wake up are good mornings.lol
Good Morning
How could anyone who reads John's epistles think christians have a license to sin?Not a license to sin.
Peter born again apostle plays the hypocrite, rebuked by Paul,The doctrine that we will always sin until we die and receive new bodies as it seems you've swallowed is a doctrine of demons.
They want you to think of yourself as a sinner, because "as a man thinks in his heart, so is he." I know the truth, and thus don't commit sins
Who's they? The apostles, Paul, Peter, John?Don't drink the poison!
HE is Speaking of BOTHYou have quoted John 5:25. The dead there are the spiritually dead. Jesus there is speaking of regeneration, the bringing to life of those dead in trespasses and sins, not the raising for the physically dead. The reference to the physically dead and their resurrection is in John 5:28-29.
John 5:24-29 has nothing whatsoever to do with the raising of Lazarus from the dead.HE is Speaking of BOTH
a.) Regeneration of our soul/spirit
b.) physical resurrection of those who physically died
Lazarus, Come forth!!!
It has everything to do with the Gospel and John 5:24-29John 5:24-29 has nothing whatsoever to do with the raising of Lazarus from the dead.
I dont agree.Hearing, believing, confessing and being baptized are all conditions for being saved, i.e., being justified, regenerated and initially sanctified. These are works but not works of law as in the sense of a code of conduct for living. Faithful living is a work in the sense of a code of conduct, and I put it in the category of the law of Christ. But be careful. It is not a condition for being saved, nor is a condition for staying saved. We are saved by grace through faith and we stay saved by grace through faith. Making faithful living a condition for salvation is a problem that arose in the churches of Galatia and is often referred to as Galatianism. It is a problem that Paul addressed in his letter to them. Specifically in chapter three
This theology known as Galatianism is not heretical friend.Making faithful living a condition for salvation is a problem that arose in the churches of Galatia and is often referred to as Galatianism.
One cannot be saved and not be faithful. That is what James is talking about. If there is not faithfulness, there is no faith and thus salvation is lost.I dont agree.
I agree that believing, repenting, confessing, being baptized are not works in the old law of Moses.
But I disagree that they are not law.
They are new testament law. The gospel of Christ is the law all are under today.
This law liberates us from our sins. It sets us free.
Believing frees us from sin.
Repentance frees us from sin.
Confessing frees us from sin.
Baptism frees us from sin.
James and Paul teaches the law of Christ frees us and the law liberates us from the old law of Moses.
Galatians 5:1,
- standfast therefore in the liberty(new testament law of Christ)
Wherewith Christ has made us free
- and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage(old testament law of Moses)
James 1:25,
- but whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continueth therein he being not a forgetful hearer but a DOER of the work this man shall be blessed in his work
This theology known as Galatianism is heretical friend.
Revelation 2:10,
Be ye faithful until death and I will give thee a crown of life
Jesus taught the only way into heaven is faithful living. All the new testament gospel must be faithfully obeyed.
When Christians fall short they are to repent, I John 1:8-9
If faithfulness is not essential to eternal life then what is Jesus teaching in Revelation 2:10?
Agreed, but you have contradicted yourself?One cannot be saved and not be faithful. That is what James is talking about. If there is not faithfulness, there is no faith and thus salvation is lost.
Yes, come Lord Jesus!!!If the final judgment were held at this very moment, would you be saved?
Both do not equate.Faithful living is a work in the sense of a code of conduct, and I put it in the category of the law of Christ. But be careful. It is not a condition for being saved, nor is it a condition for staying saved. We are saved by grace through faith and we stay saved by grace through faith. Making faithful living a condition for salvation is a problem that arose in the churches of Galatia and is often referred to as Galatianism
?Making faithful living a condition for salvation is a problem that arose in the churches of Galatia and is often referred to as Galatianism.
?One cannot be saved and not be faithful. That is what James is talking about. If there is not faithfulness, there is no faith and thus salvation is lost
It come from the misinterpretation of grace as unmerited favor. No, grace is power of the Holy Spirit in us. That is why we MUST be born again of the Spirit. Many go to church every week and are not born again. I wasn't for the first 30 years of my life! What a sobering thought. But now for the last 48 years I have been and even felt a heaviness leave my body and I was free from the sin that had plagued me. And once that heaviness/sin leave my nature I felt light as a feather. And, of course, I received many of the gifts of the Spirit, except two.How could anyone who reads John's epistles think christians have a license to sin?
But which kind of "Christian"? Like I was for the first 30 years, or after I was born again. John is calling his congregation to test themselves whether they are of God or not.8: if you say you are in the light but are in darkness - that is the lie.
John says this to Christians. Christians can be in the dark or in the light.
1John 1:8,
- if we(born again) say that we(born again) have no sin we decieve ourselves and the truth is not in us
John teaches born again christians that think they do not sin are deceived. The truth is not in them.
1John 2:3-4,
- and hereby we(born again) do know that we know him if we keep His commandments(this proves we can disobey, John gives a conditional)
- he that saith I know God and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not I'm him
You're not a Christian if you sin against the last 6 commandments/lawlessness.Christians do sin.
The sins Peter and Paul committed are from immature fruit of the Spirit. Unlike lawlessness that is taken out of our nature in one fell swoop, the fruit of the Spirit need time to grow to perfection. That is not called "sanctification," but "glorification." The process is in 2 Peter 1:5-7 which added to the inability to commit lawlessness makes us so we will never stumble again. Added to the first scripture, 2 Peter 1:8-11.Peter born again apostle plays the hypocrite, rebuked by Paul,
Galatians 2:11-14,
- but when Peter was come to Antioch I withstood him to his face because he was to blame
- and the other Jews dissembled likewise with him(Peter) insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation(deception, hypocrisy)
- but when I saw they(born again ) walked not uprightly(not honest, immoral) according to the truth of the gospel(1John 2:3 - We know God IF we keep His commandments)
Peter did not walk uprightly according to the gospel. He violated Gods commandments which is sin according to John.
1John 2:4,
- he that saith I know Jesus and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him
Galatians 2:1,
- but when Peter was come to Antioch I withstood him to his face(publicly rebuked Peter for undermining the truth of the gospel)
- because he was to be blamed
Luke 17:3,
- take heed to yourselves if thy brother trespass(wrong another person) against thee, rebuke(to correct strongly someones sin) him and if he repent(of his sin) forgive him
1John 3:15,
- whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him
False teachers first from the Roman Catholic Church when they added paganism about Mary as the queen of heaven, then those in the beginning of the Reformation like John Calvin with his Total Depravity Christians and Martin Luther who once wrote in a letter "even if you commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day, you will never be separated from God. (OSAS).Who's they? The apostles, Paul, Peter, John?
Peter being a sinful hypocrite teaches against His hypocrisy in his book.
1Peter 2:1,
- therefore laying aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander
Thanks for the warning,
I wont drink the poison. I will drink from the living waters.
Titus 1:13,
- this witness is true, wherefore rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith(gospel)
No, that is a theological doctrine inserted into 1,2,3, John.But which kind of "Christian"? Like I was for the first 30 years, or after I was born again. John is calling his congregation to test themselves whether they are of God or not.
Wrong, any sin separates you from God if it is a sin commited against Jesus' new testament law.You're not a Christian if you sin against the last 6 commandments/lawlessness.
I use the KJV.This is from the uncorrupted text used to make the KJV and the NKJV. The corrupted Alexandrian text added the word "practice" which completely changes God's word and meaning
The sins Peter and Paul committed are from immature fruit of the Spirit
A born again Christian cannot sin, 1 John 3:9.
Of course, but we MUST be born again of the Spirit. There is a test to test yourself. 1 John 3:22. Are you a Christian?John's books are written to the born again not to those who think they are born again but in reality are not.
Wrong. We can walk in the light and not commit lawless sins unto death. Why don't you know that?Wrong, any sin separates you from God if it is a sin commited against Jesus' new testament law.
Wrong, Christians can sin and become apostate.
Show me. I bet they aren't Christians.I use the KJV.
It teaches Christians can sin and be in darkness.
I thought you read John's epistles. Don't you know there are two types of sin. I already pointed out that chapter 3 is lawlessness. Those are sins unto death and are the type of sin that a born again Christian cannot commit. Their conscience won't let them if they obey their conscience where the laws of God have been written. Jesus has made it very easy to be a Christian. He is the Author of our faith and also the Finisher of our faith. Then we are perfect. It is doctrines of devils like you've been taught that will damn generations to hell.Contradiction. You already made your statement of fact, that christians cannot sin. Now you say Christians can sin. Your teaching is misleading.
All sin is transgression of Gods law.thought you read John's epistles. Don't you know there are two types of sin. I already pointed out that chapter 3 is lawlessness.
Impossible to commit any sin that does not break Gods law.Wrong. We can walk in the light and not commit lawless sins unto death.
No such thing as a Christian who has not been born of water and Spirit.Of course, but we MUST be born again of the Spirit. There is a test to test yourself. 1 John 3:22. Are you a Christian
Which kind? No such thing in the Bible. That is theology from men not Gods word. There are saved i.e. christians and unsaved i.e. alien sinners. That's all there is in the new testament.But which kind of "Christian"? Like I was for the first 30 years, or after I was born again
1John 1:8-9. John is teaching born again christians throughout all 1,2,3 John.Show me. I bet they aren't Christians
The Bible does not teach this.Those are sins unto death and are the type of sin that a born again Christian cannot commit. Their conscience won't let them if they obey their conscience where the laws of God have been written.
Greetings Titus,Paul told you exactly the moment in time His sins were washed away.
Who told you we don't know when Paul was saved? Not Paul!!!
Acts 22:16,
- and now why tarriest thou Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord
Titus, one of us are truly blinded, either myself, or you for we each teach a different system of salvation from sin and condemnation, both can not be free from error, someone is truly blinded to the truth, there's no problem for someone telling me it is me, for I am called to defend my teachings from God's word, so there, do not get offended so easily, not a very good sign of having the truth.
Matthew 15:12
“Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.”
Whosoever has the truth, should be more than able to root the other person up, maybe not in their eyes, yet in the eyes of those whom the Father has planted by His power and grace alone, a truth you work mongers reject.
You said: ~ "Many teach that Paul was saved on the road to Damascus." Actually no man knows when Paul was regenerated by the Spirit of the Living God, that act of power and mercy is hidden from us, (per John 3:8) we can only see the fruits of such a birth, and that within itself may take TIME, everyone is different, no two are the same. much like our natural birth into this world, very similar. Children do things on different level, talking, walking, etc., this is also very much true spiritually speaking. The new birth is a birth by God's power "alone", He is the only active person working, and this birth can occur at any time in the elect child of God's life from conception to the death of our bodies; John the Baptist and the thief on the cross are two perfect examples of this new birth. One could be sound asleep, since one is already DEAD in sins and trespasses, you could be doing just about anything imageable, even making love to your wife, since all things are open and naked before the God who created us ~the new birth is NOT of the flesh, (our power) or the will of man (some other person contributing such as a preacher, etc.,) but is solely of God, 100% of God. He comes and resurrects our dead spirit, and creates in us NEW MAN after the image of Jesus Christ, who DOES have the power to see, hear and obey, but "not" until then! To believe otherwise is to add to works into our salvation from sin and condemnation.
You said: "But Jesus told him he must do the will of the Lord. 3 days later Ananias preaches the gospel to him." ~ Titus, works follows the new birth, we teach this as much as no work before regeneration by God's Spirit alone. Bottom line, it comes down to this question: can a man in the flesh do spiritual acts acceptable unto God BEFORE he is quickened to life by God's Spirit? We say unequivocally, "impossible". No use beating around the bush.
You added: "Paul was not saved on the road to Damascus. Paul was saved when his faith led him to obey God." ~ You have no clue, sir, absoultely no clue. Salvation is presented to us in different phases in teh scriptures, and folks like you are apply it in one sense, such as being saved from our sin and from a burning hellfire, etc. There is an eternal, legal, vital, practical, and final sense spoken of in the scriptures.
Paul said he was saved before the world began (2nd Timothy 1:9 ), when Jesus came into the world (1st Timothy 1:15), when the Spirit regenerated him (Titus 3:5), when he took heed to himself and the doctrine (1st Timothy 4:16 ), and would be saved sometime in the future (Romans 13:11).
Titus, Paul clearly mentions five different stages or phases of salvation. And this is the key to understanding God's salvation that he provided for his children in and through his Son, Jesus Christ.
Since God saves sinners in stages, or phases, we must not limit salvation to just one idea or one event at one time. Paul saw his own salvation occurring in five phases.
It used to be called the Ordo Salutis of salvation, which means the order of salvation; but it is not studied or preached much any more. We live in the perilous times of the last days, when men no longer want sound doctrine preached to them (2nd Timothy 3:1-4:4). They prefer fables over truth, so the true doctrine of salvation has been almost lost from the earth.
Everyone talks about “getting saved,” but no one can explain it from the Bible. There are “invitations” and “decisions” and “methods” for salvation, but none of these words or ideas are from the Bible. Time will not allow me to go in depth here, but will add more later
You asked: "Could he be saved by his faith alone?" Actually no man is saved from sin and condemnation by his faith, since no man has the power to have faith, and even after one are born of the Spirit their faith is far from being perfect, which God's law can only justify perfection, not imperfection, offend in one point you are guilty of all points! Only the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ on the behalf of those for whom he died for is the "ONLY" grounds for our free justification by grace alone without our works, including our faith which is truly the fruit of the new man, not the old.
Ephesians 2:8 is often quoted to prove that we are saved by grace through faith, yet very few truly understand even that glorious verse.
In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is the faith of Christ, for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.
When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.
I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"
We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago.
Titus, I am going to address this in the morning.Paul told you exactly the moment in time His sins were washed away.
Who told you we don't know when Paul was saved? Not Paul!!!
Acts 22:16,
- and now why tarriest thou Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord
All sin is transgression of Gods law.
Show me how one can commit a sin and not break Gods law?
Impossible to commit any sin that does not break Gods law.
All sins are lawbreaking.
No such thing as a Christian who has not been born of water and Spirit.
God makes men Christians. Man does not make himself a Christian. Only belief and obedience to the gospel will God make one a Christian.
John 3:5,
- except a man be born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God
You can know that Jesus is the Son of God and call yourself a Christian, but only those who abide in Him, and Him in them are actual ChristiansNo such thing as a Christian that has not been born again by the Spirit.
You claim you can be Christian and not be born of Spirit,
There are sins unto death, and sins NOT unto death. Read 1 John. What is theology from men is "sin is sin." Ignorance!Which kind? No such thing in the Bible. That is theology from men not Gods word. There are saved i.e. christians and unsaved i.e. alien sinners. That's all there is in the new testament.
8 is everyone before confessing their sin and being cleansed from all unrighteousness. Many in the church are not actually born again. They do not have any gifts of the Spirit either.1John 1:8-9
If they stay there and apostate they are lost. But more than likely they were never born again Christians in the first place. We aren't born Christians just because we were raised in church.Christians according to John can fall from grace and walk in darkness.
It is the New Covenant prophesied to us that is the laws of God written on our hearts turning our hearts of stone into hearts of flesh. Our hearts in this verse is our conscience that the Spirit super-sensitizes. If you obey your conscience you are pleasing God.The Bible does not teach this.
We are guided by the Spirit not our conscience.
Our conscience must be trained to follow the word that is revealed by the Spirit,
God does not miraculously write His law in our hearts.
We must be taught the word by the revelation of the Spirit to know what is right or sinful.
1 Peter 1:22-23,
- seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible by the word of God which liveth and abideth forever
No such thing as unsaved Christians and no such thing as many in the church that are not born again.Many in the church are not actually born again.
All those In Christ are IN the Lords church/body.Many in the church are not actually born again. They do not have any gifts of the Spirit either.
No, you teach this process occurs by a miracle.It is the New Covenant prophesied to us that is the laws of God written on our hearts turning our hearts of stone into hearts of flesh. Our hearts in this verse is our conscience that the Spirit super-sensitizes. If you obey your conscience you are pleasing God.
Holy Spirit accomplishes this through the word,Our hearts in this verse is our conscience that the Spirit super-sensitizes. If you obey your conscience you are pleasing God.