"Works Salvation"

[Doug Brents]

I know they were

why else would we need saved.

You have made up your mind that your opinion is correct. But there is NOTHING in Scripture that says or even hints that the baptism of the Spirit and fire has anything to do with salvation. So again, your opinion is noted and ignored.

ps. baptism in fire is about condemnation..
No one has been baptized in fire yet.

Again, your opinion. But the baptism of fire is connected with the baptism of the Spirit, not contrasted with it. If the baptism of fire were about condemnation, then those who were baptized in the Spirit would not be baptized also with fire; it would be either/or.

lol. I know you don't You hold water baptism higher than physical circumcision, all works of the law. Communion, Praying without ceasing. and every other command God gave us

Nope. That is you projecting your opinions again. Taking communion is not said to lead to salvation. Praying is not said to lead to salvation. No other command, besides repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism, is said to lead to receiving salvation. And these are not greater, higher, or more important than any other command; they just come before we are "in Christ", and all other commands flow out from them.

There is no baptism in John 3

You cannot be REBORN without WATER and the SPIRIT. This is pointing to water baptism.

1 Peter 3 is a symbol. of what truly saves us

The Flood was the symbol, the antitype, of what baptism is.

No. They are commanded to MAKE DISCIPLES (followers) AND BAPTIZE THEM After they were made disciples

Wrong. Baptizing them and teaching them was the process of making them Jesus followers. Just following Jesus does not make you saved.

yes. Baptized in christ. and it is not to die to sin, it is to be cleansed from sin

You cannot be cleansed from sin without dying to sin.

Yes. By baptism of the spirit

Who does His work during water baptism (Rom 6:1-7, 1 Pet 3:21).

Baptism in water gets you wet.

Among many other things.

ok. so you are not sayign it but God is.

can you make up your mind?

Can you get your head out of the sand, or clouds, (or wherever it is you keep it)?
I am saying what God told us, but my words don't really matter. It is what God told us that is important. And He is the one who told us that we must be baptized in water in order to receive forgiveness of sin and salvation from the penalty of sin.

lol. so tell us. are you preaching a salvation by works or not?

No, I am preaching Biblical salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I mis read it the first time .

You good I thought you meant to respond to someone else lol

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You have made up your mind that your opinion is correct. But there is NOTHING in Scripture that says or even hints that the baptism of the Spirit and fire has anything to do with salvation. So again, your opinion is noted and ignored.

Again, your opinion. But the baptism of fire is connected with the baptism of the Spirit, not contrasted with it. If the baptism of fire were about condemnation, then those who were baptized in the Spirit would not be baptized also with fire; it would be either/or.

Nope. That is you projecting your opinions again. Taking communion is not said to lead to salvation. Praying is not said to lead to salvation. No other command, besides repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism, is said to lead to receiving salvation. And these are not greater, higher, or more important than any other command; they just come before we are "in Christ", and all other commands flow out from them.

You cannot be REBORN without WATER and the SPIRIT. This is pointing to water baptism.

The Flood was the symbol, the antitype, of what baptism is.

Wrong. Baptizing them and teaching them was the process of making them Jesus followers. Just following Jesus does not make you saved.

You cannot be cleansed from sin without dying to sin.

Who does His work during water baptism (Rom 6:1-7, 1 Pet 3:21).

Among many other things.

Can you get your head out of the sand, or clouds, (or wherever it is you keep it)?
I am saying what God told us, but my words don't really matter. It is what God told us that is important. And He is the one who told us that we must be baptized in water in order to receive forgiveness of sin and salvation from the penalty of sin.

No, I am preaching Biblical salvation by grace through faith.

lol I am done my friend

You want to put yourself under a command not even the OT people had to follow feel free

You want to be saved by a baptism by hand of man and not God feel free

Your first line. Read that to yourself. Don’t be a hypocrite.

 

[Red Baker]

@charismaticlady

Don't you remember when Jesus told Nicodemus that you MUST be born again of the Spirit. That's the baptism of fire. Fire to do what? Take away our sin, and remove us out of the flesh and into the Spirit. True Christians walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh.

You have absoultely no understanding of what you think you know, and most likely will not know even after I prove it to you.

What Jesus was saying to Nicodemus had not one thing to do with Baptism of fire, not one and not even close.

The baptism of fire is "not" something you would want, I can 100% assure you of that.

Matthew 3:11,12​

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

John is speaking to WHOM?

Matthew 3:7​

“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

So, you think you want the baptism of fire? The baptism of fire will be the baptism into the lake of fire in that day when the wicked are cast into the lake of fire, by the Holy Ghost, which is the second death! You Pentecostals have been deceived on many, many truths.

 

[Red Baker]

@Tothalordbeallglory

I noticed you said something . YOU said none of us has been baptized in fire yet .
Do explain please .

See post # 2684

 

[DavidTree]

1st he said God will baptize you. He was speaking to everyone there. Not everyone would be saved

He speaks of separating wheat (us) from chaff (them)

Wheat he will put in barn. How? Baptism in spirit

Chaff he will burn in a fire that shall never be quenched

I know if only one fire that fits this description. Hellfire

God will baptize everyone. Let’s pray we are baptized by him before judgment day

There is Holy Spirit Fire for the Blood Washed Saint

it is NOT hell-fire

 

[charismaticlady]

@charismaticlady

You have absoultely no understanding of what you think you know, and most likely will not know even after I prove it to you.

What Jesus was saying to Nicodemus had not one thing to do with Baptism of fire, not one and not even close.

The baptism of fire is "not" something you would want, I can 100% assure you of that.

Matthew 3:11,12​

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

John is speaking to WHOM?

Matthew 3:7​

“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?”

So, you think you want the baptism of fire? The baptism of fire will be the baptism into the lake of fire in that day when the wicked are cast into the lake of fire, by the Holy Ghost, which is the second death! You Pentecostals have been deceived on many, many truths.

Read it again.

He means you must be born again.

1. Matthew 3:11
   
   I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
   
2. Luke 3:16
   
   John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[charismaticlady]

1st he said God will baptize you. He was speaking to everyone there. Not everyone would be saved

He speaks of separating wheat (us) from chaff (them)

Wheat he will put in barn. How? Baptism in spirit

Chaff he will burn in a fire that shall never be quenched

I know if only one fire that fits this description. Hellfire

God will baptize everyone. Let’s pray we are baptized by him before judgment day

EG, there are all sorts of fire mentioned in the Bible. The following is one that we should want.

​

1. Matthew 3:11
   
   I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
   
2. Luke 3:16
   
   John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

[DavidTree]

Read it again.

He means you must be born again.

1. Matthew 3:11
   
   I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
   
2. Luke 3:16
   
   John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

@Red Baker @Eternally-Grateful

There is Holy Spirit Fire that is for the Blood Washed Saints = it is NOT hell-fire

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim @DavidTree @Doug Brents @brightfame52 @Eternally-Grateful

Then do it.

Jim, just as I said, it can be easily proven that Cornelius was a born again child of God before he ever heard a word from Peter ~ Jim, he first heard heard the voice of Jesus Christ in essence saying, Cornelius come forth and live!

John 5:25​

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

Jim, most Bible professors assume the new birth occurs when a person believes the gospel and with you..... are baptized. But the Bible does not support either of these assumptions.​

In Acts chapter 10, Cornelius is a great example of a man who was born again BEFORE he ever heard the gospel, or even met Peter.

First, notice that before he met Peter or heard the gospel, Cornelius “feared God with all his house” (v.2). And from the Bible we know that those who fear the Lord possess God’s salvation (Ps. 85:9), enjoy God’s mercy (Ps. 103:17), and please God (Ps. 147:11). Unsaved men do not fear God (Rom 3:18; Ps 36:1).

Second, see that Cornelius’ prayers were “come up for a memorial before God” (v.4), before he heard or believed the gospel through Peter. And Proverbs 15:29 teaches us plainly that God only hears the prayers of the righteous.

Third, observe that Peter acknowledged in verses 34-35 that God had already accepted Cornelius before Peter ever met him.

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

From this brief consideration of Acts chapter 10, we conclude Cornelius was born again and in possession of eternal life before he ever heard the gospel or met Peter. Cornelius is a great Biblical example of what the Bible teaches regarding the new birth: it is based only on the will of God (John 1:13), it is necessary before a man can even see the kingdom of God (John 3:3), and it is the washing and renewing work of the Holy Spirit of God (Titus 3:5).

Lost and wicked sinners do not accomplish their own new birth. Only when a man is already born again does he have any desire, like Cornelius, to hear and obey the gospel message(John 5:24; 1st Corinthians 2:14)

 

[Red Baker]

@DavidTree

There is Holy Spirit Fire that is for the Blood Washed Saints = it is NOT hell-fire

Where? Please give proof my brother.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

There is Holy Spirit Fire for the Blood Washed Saint

it is NOT hell-fire

Never heard of this. Can you show me the words Holy Spirit fire in scripture?

secondly I would ask. Is that fire ever put out?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

EG, there are all sorts of fire mentioned in the Bible. The following is one that we should want.

​

1. Matthew 3:11
   
   I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
   
2. Luke 3:16
   
   John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

I do not want that fire.

again read

12 ;His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

again, there is only one fire we are told will never be quenched

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

 

[DavidTree]

I do not want that fire.

again read

12 ;His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

again, there is only one fire we are told will never be quenched

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

That is not the fire JESUS wants to Baptize you with

 

[DavidTree]

@DavidTree

Where? Please give proof my brother.

Never heard of this. Can you show me the words Holy Spirit fire in scripture?

secondly I would ask. Is that fire ever put out?

Would you give me about 20 minutes as i just walked in the door from working in the 90 degree heat

 

[Selah]

David and @brightfame52, Jesus is praying for his apostles, but only interjects verses 20-23 about us. But then finishes his prayer about the apostles.

Ephesians 1:1-12 is about the apostles also. They are the only ones predestined, hand picked by the Father.

Go back and study.

Not really. Many have been chosen before the foundation of the world.

 

[charismaticlady]

I do not want that fire.

again read

12 ;His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

again, there is only one fire we are told will never be quenched

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

Mark 9:45
And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

You're talking about hell fire after we die, but the fire of the Holy Spirit is what takes you from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant? The righteousness that comes from keeping the 10 Commandments is as filthy rags. To be actually righteous the sin in the sin nature must be cleansed. That is the fire of the Holy Spirit. See the difference? We aren't talking about hell, but what makes a born again Christian that cannot commit sins against God. 1 John 3:9 So don't say you don't want the fire from Jesus. He said we MUST be born again. If you don't want that you will be lost.

 

[DavidTree]

THREE most Important Truths from John 17 concerning who JESUS was/is praying for

#1 - HE was praying for the 11 disciples who would become apostles on Pentecost

#2 - HE was praying for all whom the Father gave Him = 120 were waiting for Penetcost

#3 - HE is praying for all whom the FATHER continues to give to JESUS

And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), = 120 disciples of JESUS CHRIST

Dare any one of us place our words upon CHRIST's Prayer for HIS disciples!!! = i hope not

@charismaticlady @Selah @WHOEVER

 

[Selah]

That is hell fire after we die, but the fire of the Holy Spirit is what takes you from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant? The righteousness that comes from keeping the 10 Commandments is as filthy rags. To be actually righteous the sin in the sin nature must be cleansed. That is the fire of the Holy Spirit. See the difference? We aren't talking about hell, but what makes a born again Christian that cannot commit sins against God. 1 John 3:9 So don't say you don't want the fire from Jesus. He said we MUST be born again. If you don't want that you will be lost.

In this age, one must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved and have everlasting life.
s e l a h

 

[DavidTree]

@Red Baker @Eternally-Grateful

The HOLY SPIRIT Fire that God desires to Baptize us with is from the ALTAR in Heaven - Leviticus 16:11-14

“And Aaron shall bring the bull of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house, and shall kill the bull as the sin offering which is for himself.
Then he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from the altar before the Lord, with his hands full of sweet incense beaten fine, and bring it inside the veil.
And he shall put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the Testimony, lest he die.
He shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.

Leviticus 16:12-13 Fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost = Acts ch2

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all [a]with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
3Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.