"Works Salvation"

[DavidTree]

Verses 20 - 23 is us.

But verse 24 finishes His prayer regarding the apostles.

Your error is not yours alone, but is the source of the careless OSAS doctrine.

You are missing out on precious Truth from JESUS in John chapter 17

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
i am VERY knowledgeable of "CONTEXT"

Whenever a person imposes their own words upon CHRIST it is because of presuppositions.

 

[DavidTree]

I am sorry @DavidTree,

I dont get the tie in from the covenant of the "Sabbath" and what I said about Faith, and baptism is not required for salvation????????

It is a GLORIOUS Truth when the Holy Spirit reveals it to you.

Let me know when HE does.

SHALOM

 

[Doug Brents]

ah..
so your saying it is harder in the NBT to get saved than the old

No works in the oT save

But this one work in the NT does.

EG, are you just pretending to be this stupid?
No, there is no work in the OT or the NT that saves us. Nothing we do is worth the life of God in the flesh.

Salvation has always been by faith.

That is what I said.

Romans 4 makes this clear. In the old and in the new. the gospel never changed.

all that changed is we know the means of our salvation now. they do not

The actions of faith that were required in the OT varied by person and event. But the actions of faith in the NT do not change. They are all written clearly for us to see: belief in Jesus, repentance from sin, verbal, public confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism in water. These are the only actions that Scripture says lead to or result in receiving salvation. But it does say that these are necessary and required.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

EG, are you just pretending to be this stupid?

your joking right?

No, there is no work in the OT or the NT that saves us. Nothing we do is worth the life of God in the flesh.

Yet you are telling me I must do the work of water baptism to be saved.

Are you pretending to be so stupid (using your own words) that obeying a command of God is not a good work?

That is what I said.

You say this in words. But you pracice and preach something different.

Saying something does not make it right

The actions of faith that were required in the OT varied by person and event. But the actions of faith in the NT do not change. They are all written clearly for us to see: belief in Jesus, repentance from sin, verbal, public confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism in water. These are the only actions that Scripture says lead to or result in receiving salvation. But it does say that these are necessary and required.

Um no.

Abraham was saved before he did one work

works are a product of faith

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, in the middle of His prayer for the apostles he also prays for us who believe their word, But it is only verses 20-23. 24 starts again to finish his prayer to the apostles.

So you were absolutely wrong, He was praying for more than just the disciples, He was praying for His Body the Church, current believers at His time, and future believers.

 

[Doug Brents]

he did not say they were not about salvation.

Ahh, so you assume that they were. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

what else would they be for. they are saying these baptism of Jesus would be greater than his baptism.

What does the Scripture say the people baptized by fire at both Pentecost and Cornelius' house received? In both cases we are told that they received the gift of tongues and of praise.
Further, we are not told that Jesus' baptism of fire and the Spirit would be greater than the baptism of John. We are told that Jesus is greater than John, and that He would baptize with a different baptism.

yes one baptism.

NOT water baptism

SPIRIT Baptism.

So you void 1 Pet 3:21, and John 3:5, and Acts 8:36, and many others that depict NT baptism as being in water? Ok, thanks for you opinion. But since your opinion is contradicted by Scripture, I won't put any weight on your opinion.

God baptized you into Christ. Your pastor has no power to do that.

On the contrary, every minister of the Word (which is to say, every Christ follower) is commanded to baptize new followers into Christ (Matt 28:19), and it is in that baptism that we die to sin (Rom 6:1-7), we are united to Jesus' resurrection (Col 2:11-14), we are washed clean and pure (Gal 3:26-27), we are clothed with Christ and adopted into God's family (Eph 5:26-27), we receive a clear conscience (1 Pet 3:21), our sins are washed away (Acts 22:16).

 

[brightfame52]

Says the follower of Augustine and Calvin instead of the Bible.

Lol you feel better now ?

 

[Doug Brents]

Yet you are telling me I must do the work of water baptism to be saved.

No, God told us that.
Just as He told Israel that they had already been given the Promised Land, but they had to take it to receive it. They had to march around Jericho in order to take possession of it.
Just as He told Naaman that he had to dip in Jordan 7 times to receive cleansing from leprosy.
Just as He told the widow she had to give the prophet her last meal to receive food to last through the famine.
Just as He told the other widow that she had to borrow as many jars as she could, and pour the oil in order to receive money to pay her husband's debts and have money to continue to live on.

Are you pretending to be so stupid (using your own words) that obeying a command of God is not a good work?

Not at all. It is our duty to obey (Luke 17:7-10). It is of no credit to the servant that he does what the Master commands.

Abraham was saved before he did one work

Nope. He left Ur when He was told to go.

works are a product of faith

Wrong again. Works are an integral part of faith. If there are no works, then there is no faith (James 2:20, 22, 24, 26).

 

[charismaticlady]

You are missing out on precious Truth from JESUS in John chapter 17

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
i am VERY knowledgeable of "CONTEXT"

Whenever a person imposes their own words upon CHRIST it is because of presuppositions.

David and @brightfame52, Jesus is praying for his apostles, but only interjects verses 20-23 about us. But then finishes his prayer about the apostles.

Ephesians 1:1-12 is about the apostles also. They are the only ones predestined, hand picked by the Father.

Go back and study.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Yes, I agree we are very close to the end. But I'm not being persecuted yet so the first half hasn't begun. So who are these in Revelation 12 and 13 then if you think it is happening now?

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

Go to and behold what even wickepedia did not deny . THOUGH IT DID try and say
no pope has ever used that name .
You gonna be shocked my near and dear sister .
WE have had that which is of anti christ at work throughout , ALL generations thus far
but NOW the total and great reprobation of minds of men of all nations
and sadly much of all christendom
has come upon this generation big time .
You and others might call it love . I call it of anti christ
because its love honors sins , hates truth
and darn sure has made the path to GOD very darn broad
as its men holler THIS IS THE WAY WE SHALL ATTAIN PEACE N safety .
MY advice is
TO any and to all , IF ANYONES church has become big on this unity , lets set aside differences
lets be community builders , GET OUT OF THEM TOO . That which is of anti christ has come
upon them and it will surely lead them to THE BIG KAHUNA of THE LIE .
IF ya churches holler all day LOVE LOVE LOVE
but will not preach sound doctrine , WILL Not expose sins and errors within
GET OUT , I SAY TO ALL GET OUT Of them
they are already under the sway of that which is of anti christ that has come to merge all under
a love that all of the decieved can agree upon and even call and cliam is of GOD .
GET OUT
GET OUT NOW . And if you are not in such a place . GOOD .
But i am so worried for so many now . DO you mind if i ask you
a real simple question . I will ask it on my next response .

 

[DavidTree]

David, Jesus is praying for his apostles, but only interjects verses 20-23 about us. But then finishes his prayer about the apostles.

Ephesians 1:1-12 is about the apostles also. They are the only ones predestined, hand picked by the Father.

Well, first i would like to say: Praise God that we are in Christ

Secondly, was Jesus only praying for the twelve???

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Ahh, so you assume that they were. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.

I know they were

why else would we need saved.

ps. baptism in fire is about condemnation..

What does the Scripture say the people baptized by fire at both Pentecost and Cornelius' house received? In both cases we are told that they received the gift of tongues and of praise.

No one has been baptized in fire yet.

Further, we are not told that Jesus' baptism of fire and the Spirit would be greater than the baptism of John. We are told that Jesus is greater than John, and that He would baptize with a different baptism.

lol. I know you don't You hold water baptism higher than physical circumcision, all works of the law. Communion, Praying without ceasing. and every other command God gave us

So you void 1 Pet 3:21, and John 3:5, and Acts 8:36, and many others that depict NT baptism as being in water? Ok, thanks for you opinion. But since your opinion is contradicted by Scripture, I won't put any weight on your opinion.

There is no baptism in John 3
1 Peter 3 is a symbol. of what truly saves us
a

On the contrary, every minister of the Word (which is to say, every Christ follower) is commanded to baptize new followers into Christ (Matt 28:19),

No. They are commanded to MAKE DISCIPLES (followers) AND BAPTIZE THEM After they were made disciples

and it is in that baptism that we die to sin (Rom 6:1-7),

yes. Baptized in christ. and it is not to die to sin, it is to be cleansed from sin

we are united to Jesus' resurrection (Col 2:11-14), we are washed clean and pure (Gal 3:26-27), we are clothed with Christ and adopted into God's family (Eph 5:26-27), we receive a clear conscience (1 Pet 3:21), our sins are washed away (Acts 22:16).

Yes. By baptism of the spirit

Baptism in water gets you wet.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

your joking right?



Yet you are telling me I must do the work of water baptism to be saved.

Are you pretending to be so stupid (using your own words) that obeying a command of God is not a good work?

You say this in words. But you pracice and preach something different.

Saying something does not make it right

Um no.

Abraham was saved before he did one work

works are a product of faith

There is something i seen that i can help you with my friend .
You said that obeying a command of GOD is not a good work .
Actually it is .
However it is evil
when one does it TO either be seen of men
aka NOT from the heart , to try and establish ones own justification .
YOU SEE that is where many stumbled .
THEY DID NOT the works BY FAITH .
Abraham DID have faith . WHEN GOD spoke HE believed and thus what GOD had told him do , HE DID .
Belief , love , obediance , faith . THEY WORK as one .
What a man loveth he doeth , he obeys . whether of sin unto death
Or of obediance UNTO righteouness .
But many have NOT submitted unto the righteousness of GOD .
AND i BET YOU already KNOW WHO THIS IS . HOW can a man be MADE the righteousness
of GOD . ONLY IN CHRIST JESUS . as i KNOW you agree with that .
But we cannot be as the many
who then either DO as i did for years , and could lip HIS name and cliam to beleive IN HIM
and even quoate his gospel and YET DENY HIM , DENY HIM . DENY HIM . I was wicked to the core .
SO how is it that i denied HIM . I served the flesh . OH i could give dollars
to the poor , i could help out one who needed help , WHICH in itself is a good work ,
BUT I LOVED ME SIN . I WAS satans child . I Hope that puts the fear of GOD into many .
IF WE BELEIVED IN JESUS THE CHRIST , WE HAD BELEIVED HIS WORDS . LOVED HIS WORDS
OBEYED HIS WORDS . do not be as i once was . NOT saying you are , but just saying ,
ITS BIBLE TIME IN THE BUILDING .
MANY have NOT the LOVE OF GOD for many Have NOT THE SPIRIT
for many have come to a jesus of men and its doctrines .
TIME we learn for ourselves what these wolves and hirelings have failed to teach us
THE TRUTH . i say that not to accuse you , not to say you are of satan , or any thing of the sort .
ITS ONLY to help .

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No, God told us that.

ok. so you are not sayign it but God is.

can you make up your mind?

Just as He told Israel that they had already been given the Promised Land, but they had to take it to receive it. They had to march around Jericho in order to take possession of it.
Just as He told Naaman that he had to dip in Jordan 7 times to receive cleansing from leprosy.
Just as He told the widow she had to give the prophet her last meal to receive food to last through the famine.
Just as He told the other widow that she had to borrow as many jars as she could, and pour the oil in order to receive money to pay her husband's debts and have money to continue to live on.

Not at all. It is our duty to obey (Luke 17:7-10). It is of no credit to the servant that he does what the Master commands.

Nope. He left Ur when He was told to go.

Wrong again. Works are an integral part of faith. If there are no works, then there is no faith (James 2:20, 22, 24, 26).

lol. so tell us. are you preaching a salvation by works or not?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

There is something i seen that i can help you with my friend .
You said that obeying a command of GOD is not a good work .

actually I never said this. can you explain why you would claim I did

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

I know they were

why else would we need saved.

ps. baptism in fire is about condemnation..

No one has been baptized in fire yet.



lol. I know you don't You hold water baptism higher than physical circumcision, all works of the law. Communion, Praying without ceasing. and every other command God gave us

There is no baptism in John 3
1 Peter 3 is a symbol. of what truly saves us
a


No. They are commanded to MAKE DISCIPLES (followers) AND BAPTIZE THEM After they were made disciples

yes. Baptized in christ. and it is not to die to sin, it is to be cleansed from sin

Yes. By baptism of the spirit

Baptism in water gets you wet.

I noticed you said something . YOU said none of us has been baptized in fire yet .
Do explain please .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Well, first i would like to say: Praise God that we are in Christ

Secondly, was Jesus only praying for the twelve???

I just want to remind us all of something .
Pretend you dont know any thing about me for a second .
IF i came on lipping the gospel and claiming to beleive in JESUS
but did not beleive His words but rather twisted them
And no matter how many times you kept correcting me
i only doubled down on a lie
WOULD You not discern , SOMETHING wrong with that one .
Sure you would .
SO what i write next is not to accuse you or this other or anyone .
BUT let us please remember
NOT ALL WHO CLIAM to BE OF CHRIST are of the WE ARE IN CHRIST camp .
The litmus test is real simple .
What does one love . a lie , or TRUTH .
Did you know that some have said to me
WHEN i came preaching holiness , righteousness and truth and i was very grave against any sin
THEIR NUMBER ONE response to me is , OH SO YE THINK YE ALL that , better than
SO ye have never erred or sinned once .
TO WHICH i say , When this sheep do err
I DONT continually try and find a way to JUSTIFY IT as MANY OTHERS SURE DO .
This sheep hates even the evils in my own flesh .
You see SHEEP have the SPIRIT david . AS I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS .
I aint teaching you anything YOU DONT already know .
BUT I AM reminding us . Anyone who walks about
always justifying why they do as they do , covering their sin . THEY DO NOT NOT NOT NOT
KNOW GOD , KNOW CHRIST , KNOW HIS LOVE or even HAVE THE SPIRIT .
Because the SPIRIT convicts the sheep , IT DARN sure dont justify their sin .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

actually I never said this. can you explain why you would claim I did

Your right . i misread what you said . You actually were not saying that .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

actually I never said this. can you explain why you would claim I did

I mis read it the first time .

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I noticed you said something . YOU said none of us has been baptized in fire yet .
Do explain please .

1st he said God will baptize you. He was speaking to everyone there. Not everyone would be saved

He speaks of separating wheat (us) from chaff (them)

Wheat he will put in barn. How? Baptism in spirit

Chaff he will burn in a fire that shall never be quenched

I know if only one fire that fits this description. Hellfire

God will baptize everyone. Let’s pray we are baptized by him before judgment day