"Works Salvation"

[FreeInChrist]

What you said here in your post, God Commanded Beforehand = Exodus 31:12-17

12And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

I am sorry @DavidTree,

I dont get the tie in from the covenant of the "Sabbath" and what I said about Faith, and baptism is not required for salvation????????

 

[brightfame52]

Lord Jesus Christ

Oh Okay

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@DavidTree mentioned Matthew 28:19 in Reply #2617. I simply expanded on the meaning of the word baptize in that verse. Get of that High Horse you ride all the time and you just might learn something.

You responded to me, Not him.

If it was what he said, you should have responded to him.

the only high horse here is you.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yeah you did. Go back and look at your reply #2602

here we go again.

Please show me a quote from math 28 or even a mention in the post you mentioned (see below. I quoted it)

again show me matt 28 in this post Its not there

John the baptist

I indeed baptize in water, he will baptize with the hs and fire

Jesus. You will be baptized with the HS

Paul. they were baptized into moses.

so you are both wrong on all counts

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

As if you even knew what that is.

prove I do not

 

[charismaticlady]

Ya might want to seriously reconsider parts of this my near and my dear friend .
What on earth makes us even think This world has seven years left .
The cocka doodle doo might not even be heard from the rooster .
So according to your doctrine we have at LEAST seven years , maybe me seeing you made that other cliam .
But what i say to one i say to all
WATCH and be ready for YE KNOW NOT the HOUR your LORD do come .
And while most folks have been real busy looking for some kind of hollywood style
anti christ
THEY SURE ARE NO SEEING what IS and has been GOING ON all around them .
The hour is late and the delusion is already great and shall get worse .
Anti christs have been at work my friend
and they pumping out the lie of anti christ and selling it as a means to attain PEACE N SAFETY .
YEAH , I would for sure say we are much further along in the times .

Yes, I agree we are very close to the end. But I'm not being persecuted yet so the first half hasn't begun. So who are these in Revelation 12 and 13 then if you think it is happening now?

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.

 

[charismaticlady]

Please read the entire chapter 17

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

24“Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

The FATHER has not stopped giving disciples to His Son the LORD Jesus Christ

Verses 20 - 23 is us.

But verse 24 finishes His prayer regarding the apostles.

Your error is not yours alone, but is the source of the careless OSAS doctrine.

 

[Doug Brents]

Peter begins with water???

i do not see water in verse 18

Where did I say anything about Peter beginning with water? Or that there is water mentioned in verse 18? What are you talking about?

 

[charismaticlady]

Its not limited to them, they're representative of all who shall ever believe, Jesus made that clear Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

So you made a false unlearned statement. In Fact He is praying for His Body the Church

Yes, in the middle of His prayer for the apostles he also prays for us who believe their word, But it is only verses 20-23. 24 starts again to finish his prayer to the apostles.

 

[Doug Brents]

This is not true.
I already proved this
baptism in the HS and fire is not water
Baptized into moses is not water

Those are not the one baptism in the NT Church. The baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire was a very limited thing. It happened once for the Jews (Pentecost), and once for the Gentiles (Cornelius' house). It has not happened since, and since there are no other groups of people besides Jew and Gentile (everyone not a Jew) it shouldn't happen again.

Why does circumcision not save, but water does?

Because God never said that circumcision saves. But He did say that it is in baptism that we receive salvation.

And how was an OT believer saved apart from water baptism?

They were saved the same way we are: through faith.

 

[charismaticlady]

@charismaticlady

Sin does not leave our flesh, it is presence in all that we do ~ mortify sin, we must, but it is there presence ~ you very confused. Btw, there is not one scripture written to the churches of Jesus Christ telling them to seek the baptism of the Spirit, wondered why? Help me out. Cornelius was baptized by the Spirit and did not even seek it!

Don't you remember when Jesus told Nicodemus that you MUST be born again of the Spirit. That's the baptism of fire. Fire to do what? Take away our sin, and remove us out of the flesh and into the Spirit. True Christians walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are missing something.

They did not get wet in the flood.

Irrelevant. It is not the "getting wet" that saves.

 

[Doug Brents]

what work of the law was required for salvation?

There is no work of the Law that is required for salvation.

no. It says the waters of the flood is another symbols. just as water baptism is.

Wrong. It says that the water of the Flood is the symbol of what saves us today: Baptism.
New International Version
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also
English Standard Version
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you,
Berean Standard Bible
And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you also
Berean Literal Bible
which also prefigures the baptism now saving you
New King James Version
There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism
New American Standard Bible
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you
International Standard Version
Baptism, which is symbolized by that water, now saves you also,

it does not remove filth of the flesh (sin)

It does not remove dirt from the flesh (physical washing), but through the working of the Holy Spirit it DOES remove sin.

its the answer of a good consciousness to God./.

what saves us? the resurrection of Christ.

What saves us?
Belief - Acts 16:31
Grace - Eph 2:8
Faith - Eph 2:8
Verbal confession - Rom 10:9-10
Baptism - Mark 16:16,
Standing firm to the end - Matt 10:22
Repentance - Acts 3:19
Doing the will of the Father - Matt 7:21
Being born again - John 3:3
Jesus - John 14:6
The endurance of the Apostles - 2 Tim 2:10

These are just one verse that says each thing. Most of these have multiple verses that say these things save us. Yes, the ultimate power and authority for our salvation comes from God, through Jesus, in the form of His blood. But each of these things is said to save us. But none of them are the power of our salvation. None of them are the source of our salvation. But if we do not have them, then we do not have salvation, because none of Scripture is void.

 

[Jim]

Says a person who has zero understanding of the bible

Says the follower of Augustine and Calvin instead of the Bible.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Those are not the one baptism in the NT Church. \

ok Doug we are going to stop right here

John the Baptist stated that these baptisms will happen in the NT

You need to come out from what you have been taught. This is not the only baptism taught.

water baptism is the only one commanded.

But there are many baptisms of the NT

 

[Jim]

prove I do not

It is obvious.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

There is no work of the Law that is required for salvation.

ah..
so your saying it is harder in the NBT to get saved than the old

No works in the oT save

But this one work in the NT does.

again, You need to stop listening to those who have taught you. they have led you astray

Salvation has always been by faith. Romans 4 makes this clear. In the old and in the new. the gospel never changed.

all that changed is we know the means of our salvation now. they do not

 

[Doug Brents]

ok Doug we are going to stop right here

John the Baptist stated that these baptisms will happen in the NT

But he did not say that they have anything to do with salvation.

You need to come out from what you have been taught. This is not the only baptism taught.

water baptism is the only one commanded.

But there are many baptisms of the NT

So you deny Eph 4:4-6? There is "one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all"
Yes, there are other baptisms mentioned, but they are not the ONE baptism of the NT Church. The ONE baptism on the NT Church is, as you said, the ONE baptism that is commanded: water baptism.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It is obvious.

ahh

so no proof

thank you

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

But he did not say that they have anything to do with salvation.

he did not say they were not about salvation.

what else would they be for. they are saying these baptism of Jesus would be greater than his baptism.

So you deny Eph 4:4-6? There is "one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all"
Yes, there are other baptisms mentioned, but they are not the ONE baptism of the NT Church. The ONE baptism on the NT Church is, as you said, the ONE baptism that is commanded: water baptism.

yes one baptism.

NOT water baptism

SPIRIT Baptism.

God baptized you into Christ. Your pastor has no power to do that.