"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
Titus
Active Member
This is textbook Reformed theology.
You are going to listen to yourself.
So God does the teaching directly not men. That's your doctrine.
Why was the apostles who are MEN told by God to go and preach His word to the entire world, Matthew 28:19-20?
You teach God Himself does it all in salvation. Why did men go to the entire world to teach ?
Why did Paul go everywhere preaching the gospel? If man plays no part in salvation?
What would have happened on pentecost in Acts 2 if none of the apostles preached the gospel to theJews? How many would God have saved?
You do not understand scripture.
You interpret these verses as meaning men are not nessary in salvation.
Did you miss the point Paul made?
- who then is Paul and who is Apollos but ministers THROUGH WHOM YOU BELIEVED
WHERE DID THIER FAITH COME FROM?
It was from Paul's ministry!!!
If you cannot see that without Paul they would not have faith I cant help you.
- God gave the increase
I believe this 100%.
The gospel has the POWER in it to save, that's Gods work.
BUT IT NEVER GETS PLANTED IN THE HEARTS OF MEN WITHOUT THOSE WHO PLANT THE WORD.
As I already taught you,
God and man work together in salvation.
Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation
Titus
Active Member
You do not understand what Paul is teaching.
Paul is not teaching he is of no importance in mans salvation.
Paul is teaching that the one who plants the seed is not the Power of God unto salvation, Romans 1:16.
Paul is teaching the power is in the seed itself(gospel).
God works through the gospel to peirce the hearts of those who hear it.
But this does not mean that Paul is totally worthless in Gods plan of salvation.
If he was then THERE WAS NO NEED FOR HIM TO PLANT THE SEED LET GOD DO IT ALL!!!
God does the increase meaning the gospel has the power to move men from unbelief to belief.The gospel has the power to change the hearts of men.
But man has to plant it!!!
DavidTree
Active Member
JESUS doctrine is that God directly Calls and teaches man
Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’
Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me
You, @Titus lack understanding of the words of Christ and the Apostles = on this subject of: the Provider of Salvation
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren/Titus.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.
And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”
11He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
13Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
14And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’
No one is denying the God GIVEN annointing to men to preach the Gospel = God GIVEN
Yet you are denying what the Apostle Paul says by the HOLY SPIRIT
Their faith never came from Paul = Both JESUS and Paul deny that it came from man to man.
Preaching the Gospel is from God thru man to man
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?
I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.
So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
Titus
Active Member
How did I learn His words on here?
A MAN named DavidTree shared scripture with me.
WHICH VIOLATES DavidTree's ENTIRE DOCTRINE OF MAN PLAYS NO PART IN ANOTHER MANS SALVATION.
If you truly believe what you teach then WHY are you sharing scripture with me?
You should only allow God to do it all directly by Himself.
If you really believe Paul and Apollos had no part in salvation.
Then why are you a man sharing scripture?
Why are you not letting God do it all for me?
By you teaching and sharing scripture you contradict your own teaching.
You really dont believe man has no part in another mans FAITH.
Titus
Active Member
Then why are you teaching me? You aren't making sense nor are you following your own teaching.
DavidTree
Active Member
Titus
Active Member
Big difference between you and Paul.
Paul was INSPIRED. Directed by miraculous knowledge given by the Holy Spirit.
Davidtree is not Inspired.
So again, why is Davidtree teaching me ?
if you really believe man plays no part in salvation then let God teach me directly.
Practise what you preach.
Acts 2:40,
- and with many other words did he testify and exhort saying save yourselves from this untoward generation
Never will you read that man has no part in his salvation.
James made it clear that man is justified by his works.
James 2:24,
- you see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith only
Man must do obedient works in Jesus' gospel to be saved by Grace.
Titus
Active Member
The contradictions in DavidTree's teaching.
Now DavidTree teaches God teaches from man to man.
God directly teaches man.
Now DavidTree teaches God teaches from man to man.
DavidTree
Active Member
As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend.
JESUS spoke but not many heard.
JESUS taught but not many understood
Paul spoke and some believed
Paul said it was not from him but from GOD
On this subject, if you take the words of Christ into your prayer closet, HE will increase your understanding but ONLY IF you are willing from your heart.
Key Truth = Matthew 16:13-17
When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in Heaven.
Titus
Active Member
This is DavidTrees vain attempt to deny he is teaching me rather than God directly,
Exactly like Paul,
Romans 16:25,
- now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel
Paul is teaching others when he shares the teachings of Christ just as you struggling to do with me.
Now he claims he is not teaching me.
Who believes on here we are not teaching others?
David's claim is in desperation.
I follow the teachings of Christ and when I share those teachings with others I'm sharing my gospel which is Christ's gospel.
Exactly like Paul,
Romans 16:25,
- now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel
Paul is teaching others when he shares the teachings of Christ just as you struggling to do with me.
I called DavidTree out on his hypocrisy by showing that he is a man teaching me.
Now he claims he is not teaching me.
Who believes on here we are not teaching others?
David's claim is in desperation.
Titus
Active Member
Matthew 22:29,
- Jesus answered and said to them, Ye do err not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God
I understand very just about everything you say. But I agree with just about nothing you say on the subject of soteriology.
You do know that faith in God is believing in God do you not? They are one and the same. Both are something that YOU do. God says if you do that, have faith in Him, believe in Him, then He will save you.
Believing is something you do. It is a work, just not a work of law. And at least you are correct that they do not gain nor earn salvation. But God has said when you do that, i.e., believe in Him, in Jesus Christ, in the gospel, He will save you.
We are saved by grace through faith. We stay saved by grace through faith.
Are you serious? How many good deeds do you think it takes to gain salvation? How do you know when you have done enough good deeds to gain salvation?
The evidentiary proof is good deeds? Is that what you are promoting?
We are not made righteous; rather we are reckoned with the righteousness of God. Righteousness is an imputed attribute.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
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