"Works Salvation"

What you believe is offensive to the Gospel. I'm not going to act like it doesn't matter.
[Deleted] why do you not come here and prove you accusations?

Come here in the thread of another gospel..... https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/what-does-“another-gospel”-mean.2312/

Simple: ANYTHING other than Eph 2:8,9.
Greetings Bob,

I agreed 100%~but, it is never as simple as saying what you have stated, you know that to be so, and so do most others who are students of the scriptures. The problem arises from folks not fully understanding the contents of what Paul is truly saying, as the Spirit of God intended. If one truly grasp its meaning, then that person teaches the true gospel of Jesus Christ, to the same degree that the apostles did in their days, which should be nothing less than what every sincere lover of the truth should desire to do, and labor to do with all their might.

Maybe folks should give their best attempt of the true biblical meaning of Ephesians 2: 8,9 and the surrounding context if they feel it necessary to do so. I'll start.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (that is faith ~ RB) not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is "the faith of Christ", for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.

When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God~this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.

I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago. That is the faith that is not of ourselves of Ephesians 2:8, which the apostles said it is the gift of God, thereby salvation from sin and condemnation is not of works in way possible, that man may seek to bring works into one's salvation from sin and condemnation, seeking to boast of something that he may have done to contribute to salvation.

More could be said, but enough to start this discussion.

You can start with Ephesians 2:8,9 post #367

If you are not going to act like it doesn't, then step up, and put your hardness on and let's see who is truly preaching another gospel. Mine is on, and ready.

Ephesians 6:14-19​

“Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel"

Mysteries that are hidden from men like you, that I have seen so far from you, which is of any spiritual food for God's very elect. Maybe for goats, they eat just about anything.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
earlier I posted the Christian must CONTINUE to obey God to continue to receive God's grace


You posted : "Respectfully Disagree,"
Hey Seabass
Not possible that I posted RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE.
Because I agree with you that we must continue with good works.
You're getting me mixed up with a faith only person.
But above you say Christians are to obey God. Can Christian disobey God and continue to be in God's grace? No.
Of course.
One CONDITIONALLY receives God's grace by obeying so it only makes sense one must CONDITIONALLY continue to obey God to continue in God's grace.
I have mentioned grace to you but you haven't responded to the post.
No matter.

Here's how grace works:
We obey the gospel, or somehow become saved.

This was accomplished by the necessary amount of grace that God gives to EVERYONE so that they know of His existence.
I had mentioned Romans 1:19----

As a person grows in faith, he obeys God.
God then gives to this person MORE GRACE as is needed.

And this continues ad infinitum.

If a person does not obey God,,,he has squandered some grace....
but God will always give that person more as is needed.
 
You posted : "Respectfully Disagree,"
Grace ambassador was attempting to be gracious, I'll not be so gracious toward heretics corrupting the gospel of Jesus Christ by their work gospel, but will treat such men just as Paul did.

Galatians 5:12​

“I would they were even cut off which trouble you.” Again and even more forceful:

Galatians 1:0
"As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
One CONDITIONALLY receives God's grace by obeying so it only makes sense one must CONDITIONALLY continue to obey God to continue in God's grace.
Wrong of both account Mr. Work Monger.

Paul said that you are a liar, and a false teacher of the word of God. Jesus Christ is the surety of God's elect, he alone secured eternal redemption for each and every elect child of God given to him of his Father to saved from sin and condemnation by his faith and obedience, since all men born through Adam's posterity are without strength to do one thing to secure their salvation from sin and its condemnation. Your work gospel frustrates and makes void the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and puts it almost out of the gospel message of God's free grace.

Galatians 2:21
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

1st Corinthians 4:7
"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?"
 
Last edited:
Wrong of both account Mr. Work Monger.

Paul said that you are a liar, and a false teacher of the word of God. Jesus Christ is the surety of God's elect, he alone secured eternal redemption for each and every elect child of God given to him of his Father to saved from sin and condemnation by his faith and obedience, since all men born through Adam's posterity are without strength to do one thing to secure their salvation from sin and its condemnation. Your work gospel frustrates and make void the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and puts it almost out of the gospel message of God's free grace.
Strong words to another brother, don't you think?

Grace as Unmerited Favor – Biblically, grace (χάρις, charis) is God's unmerited favor (Ephesians 2:8–9), meaning it is not earned by obedience but received through faith. However, obedience is the expected response to grace (Romans 6:1–2, Titus 2:11–12).

Conditionality in Receiving Grace – While salvation is by grace through faith, Scripture does present conditions for receiving grace. James 4:6 says, "God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." Similarly, Acts 2:38 connects repentance with receiving the Holy Spirit.

Continuing in Grace – Scripture does indicate that one must continue in grace. Galatians 5:4 warns of those who are “fallen from grace” by seeking justification through the law. Hebrews 12:15 warns against “failing of the grace of God.”

John 15:6 speaks of branches that do not abide in Christ being cast away.

Obedience as Evidence, Not a Means of Grace – While obedience is required to remain in fellowship with God (1 John 1:6–7), grace itself is not strictly conditioned on obedience but rather accompanied by obedience. Philippians 2:12–13 speaks of working out salvation because it is God who works within the believer.

What say you?

J.
 
I'm still praying and thinking about what the image of God means.
Dizerner, no need to pray tooo long for the answer in in the scriptures right before our eyes.

We can see and understand exactly what the scriptures mean by being created in God's image by knowing what the new birth consist of when one is born of God's Spirit.

The new birth is a recreation of a new man created after the image of Jesus Christ in true holiness/righteousness, wisdom and knowledge, etc., which we are commanded to put on.

I refuse to "proof text spam" for you
I do not need you to do so, I'm more than capable of doing this by using the word of God properly, without assuming what it may, or may not be.
But I know that part of that image is free will and self-awareness.
You got to do better than that, since you have no scriptures to back your assumption up.
 
I'm still praying and thinking about what the image of God means.
The image of God (imago Dei) refers to the unique way in which human beings reflect God’s nature, distinguishing them from the rest of creation. The phrase appears explicitly in Genesis 1:26–27 and has been interpreted in multiple ways throughout biblical theology.

1. Biblical Passages on the Image of God
Genesis 1:26–27 – "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Genesis 5:1–3 – The image of God is passed through generations, as Seth is born in Adam’s likeness, paralleling Adam being made in God’s image.

Genesis 9:6 – "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." (Shows the image of God remains after the fall, reinforcing human dignity.)

1 Corinthians 11:7 – "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man." (Discusses the image of God in relation to gender roles.)

Colossians 3:10 – "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him." (Links the image of God with moral renewal in Christ.)

James 3:9 – "Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God." (Reinforces the dignity of humans as image-bearers.)


2. Interpretations of the Image of God
A. Structural View (Ontological)
The image of God refers to certain attributes in humanity that reflect God, such as rationality, morality, self-awareness, and the capacity for relationships.
This view sees humans as distinct from animals because of reason, conscience, and the ability to relate to God (Ecclesiastes 3:11).


B. Functional View (Dominion)
The image of God is seen as a role or function, primarily tied to ruling over creation (Genesis 1:26, Psalm 8:6–8).
This view emphasizes stewardship, arguing that the divine image is expressed in humanity’s responsibility to govern the earth as God’s representatives.


C. Relational View
The image of God is reflected in humanity’s capacity for relationships, particularly in love and communion, as seen in the triune nature of God.
Since God exists in eternal fellowship (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), human relationships mirror this divine nature (Genesis 1:27, John 17:21–23).


D. Christological View (Restoration in Christ)
The New Testament speaks of Christ as the true image of God (Colossians 1:15, 2 Corinthians 4:4, Hebrews 1:3).
Believers are being conformed to His image (Romans 8:29), meaning salvation restores what was marred by sin (Ephesians 4:24).


3. Effects of the Fall on the Image of God
The image of God was not lost but marred by sin (Genesis 9:6, James 3:9).
Sin corrupted human nature (Romans 3:23), affecting the moral and relational aspects of the image.
Salvation in Christ renews the image (Colossians 3:10, Ephesians 4:24), bringing people back into righteousness and holiness.

4. Theological Implications
Human Dignity – Every human being, regardless of status, bears the image of God (Genesis 9:6, James 3:9).
Moral Responsibility – Being in God's image means humans have an ethical duty (Ephesians 4:24).
Salvation and Sanctification – The work of Christ restores the full expression of the image (Romans 8:29).
Eschatology – The final transformation into Christ’s image happens at glorification (1 John 3:2, 1 Corinthians 15:49).

Maybe this would be helpful @Dizerner.

J.
 
Strong words to another brother, don't you think?
Greetings Johanna,

I generally do not come across as strong, yet this has to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ, which Paul made it very clear, there is no giving in to men who corrupt the gospel, on other doctrines, we can and should be more merciful, but on the truth of the gospel we must stand firm and unmovable. Even against good men like Paul did toward Peter, he did not give an inch, not for one second.

Galatians 2:11​

“But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.”
Grace as Unmerited Favor – Biblically, grace (χάρις, charis) is God's unmerited favor (Ephesians 2:8–9), meaning it is not earned by obedience but received through faith. However, obedience is the expected response to grace (Romans 6:1–2, Titus 2:11–12).

Conditionality in Receiving Grace – While salvation is by grace through faith, Scripture does present conditions for receiving grace. James 4:6 says, "God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." Similarly, Acts 2:38 connects repentance with receiving the Holy Spirit.

Continuing in Grace – Scripture does indicate that one must continue in grace. Galatians 5:4 warns of those who are “fallen from grace” by seeking justification through the law. Hebrews 12:15 warns against “failing of the grace of God.”

John 15:6 speaks of branches that do not abide in Christ being cast away.

Obedience as Evidence, Not a Means of Grace – While obedience is required to remain in fellowship with God (1 John 1:6–7), grace itself is not strictly conditioned on obedience but rather accompanied by obedience. Philippians 2:12–13 speaks of working out salvation because it is God who works within the believer.

What say you?
I have a meeting, but will come back mid morning and answer you in depth. Thank you for your post.
 
Greetings Johanna,

I generally do not come across as strong, yet this has to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ, which Paul made it very clear, there is no giving in to men who corrupt the gospel, on other doctrines, we can and should be more merciful, but on the truth of the gospel we must stand firm and unmovable. Even against good men like Paul did toward Peter, he did not give an inch, not for one second.

Galatians 2:11​

“But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.”

I have a meeting, but will come back mid morning and answer you in depth. Thank you for your post.
My name is Johann.

J.
 
Could be why you're in deception.
Concerning what? Care to elaborate?
I'd recommend respecting prayer a bit more, as Scripture gives it a high place, and it is an act of dependence.
Did not say not to pray, of course God's children do and always could do more, no problem. Yet, also, there's a time and season for everything under the sun ~ there comes a time when we must search the scriptures for answers after we have sought God in prayer ~ and trust him to open our understanding.

Ephesians 1:17​

“That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:”
 
What say you?
Greetings again Johann,

Grace as Unmerited Favor – Biblically, grace (χάρις, charis) is God's unmerited favor (Ephesians 2:8–9), meaning it is not earned by obedience
Actually grace is much more than unmerited favor, it is demerited grace, we all have merited the lake of fire, whch is the second death.

What is Grace?​

Grace is what we need to get us of our mess ~ eternal condemnation. Grace is kindness done toward us by another, when we deserve their punishment and rejection. So, grace is not unmerited favor as many presume; it is demerited favor, for all have merited eternal condemnation! Grace is not unmerited favor as many presume; no man are not neutral before God, but His enemy!

Grace is a free gift without any sense of duty or obligation to show us mercy by it (Romans 4:4). Grace is seeing you have earned the wages of death, but paying the gift of eternal life (Romans 6:23). Grace is so contrary to works that the definitions of the words are mutually exclusive (Romans 11:5-6). Grace is so contrary to works that any additions to it of human obligations frustrate it (Galatian 2:21). Adding anything to the grace of God in salvation by Christ is to fall from proper teaching concerning grace (Galatian 5:4). The heart of the elect should be grounded on grace, rejecting the meats of false doctrines (Hebrews 13:9).
but received through faith.
As far as knowledge only, "not as" channel by which one is legally saved. If you need for me to enlarge on this, then I will be happy to do so.
However, obedience is the expected response to grace (Romans 6:1–2, Titus 2:11–12).
Agreed
While salvation is by grace through faith
Consider my notes on Ephesians 2:8,9:
In Ephesians 2:8 we have a classic example of an metonymy. The only faith that saves us legally is "the faith of Christ", for no man can have faith in God, the faith that meets the requirement of a Royal law, a faith that is produce by perfect obedience to its laws! Jesus Christ alone had the faith that honoured God's law in all points, from conception, to death, in thoughts, words, and deeds ~ and this faith alone is the means of man's free justification. This faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God secured for God's elect by our surety, Jesus Christ. This faith is given to us in regeneration when the Spirit of God creates a new man within us after the image of his Son, Jesus Christ.

When a man hears and believes, it is not the old man (for that is impossible) but his new man that is a creative work in God's elect by the almighty power of God ~ this birth happens to a child of God sometimes after conception and before death, and is evidenced by faith and obedience to the word of God. Two prime examples of this is John the the Baptist and the thief on the cross.

I could spend more time proving the metonymy in Ephesians 2:8 by the context in just before verse 8, in verses: 4-6..."But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

We were IN CHRIST from all eternity, even while he lived in this world and in his death and resurrection, which secured our redemption for us. What he did, it was as though we did it, what happen to Christ happened to us legally speaking two thousand years ago. That is the faith that is not of ourselves of Ephesians 2:8, which the apostles said it is the gift of God, thereby salvation from sin and condemnation is not of works in way possible, that man may seek to bring works into one's salvation from sin and condemnation, seeking to boast of something that he may have done to contribute to salvation.

More could be said, but enough to start this discussion.
Obedience as Evidence, Not a Means of Grace – While obedience is required to remain in fellowship with God (1 John 1:6–7), grace itself is not strictly conditioned on obedience but rather accompanied by obedience. Philippians 2:12–13 speaks of working out salvation because it is God who works within the believer.
Agreed
John 15:6 speaks of branches that do not abide in Christ being cast away.
If a man abide not in me
Christ does not say, "if ye abide not in me"; he would not suppose this of his true disciples; Judas now being removed, to whom he may have some respect in this verse; though it may be applied to anyone who has made a profession of Christ, and denies the truths of the Gospel, neglects the ordinances of it, or walks unworthy of his profession.

More on this point later, I'm sure.
 
Sorry, but there is a third choice (Heterodox).

I find accusations of HERESY sufficiently offensive that it is grounds to break fellowship.
All communication is terminated effective immediately.
You are commanded to have nothing to do with a Heretic.

Goodbye.
do you agree with this article from Got ? on what is heresy

When we hear the word heresy, we might conjure up images of medieval torture chambers and heresy trials. There was a period of church history that certainly included those things. If we are not history buffs or religious scholars, we might know that heresy is a bad thing, but still be rather foggy on the details. So, what exactly is heresy, and what does the Bible have to say about it?

A basic definition of heresy, according to Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, is “adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma.” A second definition is “dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice.” That’s a good starting point for us. These definitions identify two key elements: a dominant position and a contrary position. With regards to religion, any belief or practice that goes against the official position of the church is considered heretical.

Heresy has existed in every age, but during the 12th century, the Catholic Church took unprecedented action against it. As the power of the Catholic Church increased in Europe, dissenting voices of other Christian groups became more troublesome. Pope Alexander III (1162–63) encouraged informers, so the church could discover evidence of heresy. In 1184 Pope Lucius III issued a decree that a convicted heretic was to be handed over to secular authorities for punishment. Over the next several decades, the church increased the severity of punishment for heresy, ultimately making it a capital offense under Pope Gregory IX. During this time, the Dominicans became the principal agents of the Inquisition, a special court given authority to judge intentions as well as actions. When heresy was suspected in a village, an inquisitor was sent to preach a sermon calling for the villagers to come forward with reports of heresy. This was a “general inquisition” that included a period of grace for anyone who would confess. This was followed by a “special inquisition” that might include coercion, false witnesses, and torture to obtain a “confession.” Those identified as heretics were then ordered to do penance, which might consist of mandatory church attendance, pilgrimage to a shrine, loss of property, or imprisonment. Heretics who refused to repent were sentenced to death. The Inquisition continued in most areas of Europe until the 15th century.

Obviously, the gauge for “heretical” teaching varies according to the established orthodoxy of the day. Any group or individual who differs from another group can technically be called heretical. In Acts 24:14, Christians are called heretics by the Jews. The “heretics” of the Middle Ages were only heretical in that they disagreed with the Catholic Church, not because they held unbiblical doctrines. The Spanish Inquisition executed over 14,000 people, many of them for simply possessing a Bible. Thus, biblically speaking, it was the established church itself that was heretical during the Middle Ages.

Regarding biblical Christianity, what is heresy? Second Peter 2:1 says, “There will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” From this verse, we see that heresy is anything that denies the teaching of Jesus. In 1 Corinthians 11:19, Paul takes the church to task for having heresies among them—heresies that led to schisms in the body. These verses touch on both aspects of what constitutes heresy in the church: denying the doctrines God has given, and dividing the body He has created. Both of these are dangerous, destructive actions that are soundly rebuked by Scripture. See also 1 John 4:1-6; 1 Timothy 1:3-6; 2 Timothy 1:13-14; and Jude 1.

How does the Bible deal with heresy? Titus 3:10 says, “A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject” (KJV). Other translations say “divisive person,” “factious man,” and “person who stirs up division.” When a person in the church departs from biblical teaching, the correct response is to, first, try to correct him, but if he refuses to listen after two warnings, have nothing more to do with him. Excommunication is implied. The truth of Christ will unify believers (John 17:22-23), but heresy, by its very nature, cannot peacefully co-exist with the truth.

Of course, not every disagreement in the church is heresy. Having a different opinion is not wrong, but when the opinion is divisive or maintained in defiance of clear biblical teaching, it becomes heretical. The apostles themselves disagreed at times (see Acts 15:36-41), and Peter once had to be rebuked for divisive and legalistic behavior (Galatians 2:11-14). But, praise the Lord, through an attitude of humility and submission to the God of truth, the apostles worked through their disagreements and set an example for us.

How do we guard against heresy? Philippians 2:2-3 is a good starting point: “Complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.” As we submit ourselves to the authority of God’s Word and deal with one another in love and respect, divisions and heresies will be diminished.
 
Mr. Boastful why do you not come here and prove you accusations?

Come here in the thread of another gospel..... https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/what-does-“another-gospel”-mean.2312/



You can start with Ephesians 2:8,9 post #367

If you are not going to act like it doesn't, then step up, and put your hardness on and let's see who is truly preaching another gospel. Mine is on, and ready.

Ephesians 6:14-19​

“Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel"

Mysteries that are hidden from men like you, that I have seen so far from you, which is of any spiritual food for God's very elect. Maybe for goats, they eat just about anything.

Post reported for name calling
 
@Seabass

God, who cannot lie, has promised to save those that obey him (Heb 5:9)

Friend you are twisting scripture, Heb 5:9 isnt God making a promise to save them who obey Him

9 And being made perfect, he[Jesus Christ] became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

This is a declarative statement about Jesus, By His perfect obedience unto death, He became the author, or causer of salvation, evidenced by them obeying Him, so their obeying Him is the fruit of Him being made perfect, authoring their obedience.
 
@Seabass



Friend you are twisting scripture, Heb 5:9 isnt God making a promise to save them who obey Him

9 And being made perfect, he[Jesus Christ] became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

This is a declarative statement about Jesus, By His perfect obedience unto death, He became the author, or causer of salvation, evidenced by them obeying Him, so their obeying Him is the fruit of Him being made perfect, authoring their obedience.
Heb 5:9 (KJB)And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Perfect - Bring to completion or make perfect (having been perfected)The author - Cause or source The sufferings of Christ was His perfection and His consecration to the office of High Priest. This resulted in Him being the author or the cause of salvation which means that those who are In Christ are eternally saved. The term “obey” does not mean we obey unto salvation but the obedience comes after salvation. Being obedient to Christ is a proof of one being in Christ. One can never work for their salvation because the reason Christ suffered was to save His people. If a person could work for their salvation, then the suffering of Christ would have been unnecessary.https://www.scionofzion.com/hebrews_5_6_10.htm
 
While you are at it, report also that you called a member a bastard. See post #1775

If they are going to start moderating posts like they have begun, then I'll insist you abide by the same rules as are required of me.

BTW. You can link to the post instead of including the post #. I can train you how to use technology if you like?
 
do you agree with this article from Got ? on what is heresy

When we hear the word heresy, we might conjure up images of medieval torture chambers and heresy trials. There was a period of church history that certainly included those things. If we are not history buffs or religious scholars, we might know that heresy is a bad thing, but still be rather foggy on the details. So, what exactly is heresy, and what does the Bible have to say about it?

A basic definition of heresy, according to Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, is “adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma.” A second definition is “dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice.” That’s a good starting point for us. These definitions identify two key elements: a dominant position and a contrary position. With regards to religion, any belief or practice that goes against the official position of the church is considered heretical.

Heresy has existed in every age, but during the 12th century, the Catholic Church took unprecedented action against it. As the power of the Catholic Church increased in Europe, dissenting voices of other Christian groups became more troublesome. Pope Alexander III (1162–63) encouraged informers, so the church could discover evidence of heresy. In 1184 Pope Lucius III issued a decree that a convicted heretic was to be handed over to secular authorities for punishment. Over the next several decades, the church increased the severity of punishment for heresy, ultimately making it a capital offense under Pope Gregory IX. During this time, the Dominicans became the principal agents of the Inquisition, a special court given authority to judge intentions as well as actions. When heresy was suspected in a village, an inquisitor was sent to preach a sermon calling for the villagers to come forward with reports of heresy. This was a “general inquisition” that included a period of grace for anyone who would confess. This was followed by a “special inquisition” that might include coercion, false witnesses, and torture to obtain a “confession.” Those identified as heretics were then ordered to do penance, which might consist of mandatory church attendance, pilgrimage to a shrine, loss of property, or imprisonment. Heretics who refused to repent were sentenced to death. The Inquisition continued in most areas of Europe until the 15th century.

Obviously, the gauge for “heretical” teaching varies according to the established orthodoxy of the day. Any group or individual who differs from another group can technically be called heretical. In Acts 24:14, Christians are called heretics by the Jews. The “heretics” of the Middle Ages were only heretical in that they disagreed with the Catholic Church, not because they held unbiblical doctrines. The Spanish Inquisition executed over 14,000 people, many of them for simply possessing a Bible. Thus, biblically speaking, it was the established church itself that was heretical during the Middle Ages.

Regarding biblical Christianity, what is heresy? Second Peter 2:1 says, “There will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” From this verse, we see that heresy is anything that denies the teaching of Jesus. In 1 Corinthians 11:19, Paul takes the church to task for having heresies among them—heresies that led to schisms in the body. These verses touch on both aspects of what constitutes heresy in the church: denying the doctrines God has given, and dividing the body He has created. Both of these are dangerous, destructive actions that are soundly rebuked by Scripture. See also 1 John 4:1-6; 1 Timothy 1:3-6; 2 Timothy 1:13-14; and Jude 1.

How does the Bible deal with heresy? Titus 3:10 says, “A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject” (KJV). Other translations say “divisive person,” “factious man,” and “person who stirs up division.” When a person in the church departs from biblical teaching, the correct response is to, first, try to correct him, but if he refuses to listen after two warnings, have nothing more to do with him. Excommunication is implied. The truth of Christ will unify believers (John 17:22-23), but heresy, by its very nature, cannot peacefully co-exist with the truth.

Of course, not every disagreement in the church is heresy. Having a different opinion is not wrong, but when the opinion is divisive or maintained in defiance of clear biblical teaching, it becomes heretical. The apostles themselves disagreed at times (see Acts 15:36-41), and Peter once had to be rebuked for divisive and legalistic behavior (Galatians 2:11-14). But, praise the Lord, through an attitude of humility and submission to the God of truth, the apostles worked through their disagreements and set an example for us.

How do we guard against heresy? Philippians 2:2-3 is a good starting point: “Complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.” As we submit ourselves to the authority of God’s Word and deal with one another in love and respect, divisions and heresies will be diminished.
By the definition given here, Jesus was a heretic. He did not agree with or follow the dominant religious dogma of His day. But He was right, and they were wrong. Not trying to "stir the puddin'" here, just pointing out an example of how being a heretic is not necessarily bad.
 
BTW. You can link to the post instead of including the post #. I can train you how to use technology if you like?
Let's make a deal, you teach me technology and I'll teach you theology..... the doctrines of the word of God, because you surely need help, even if you think you do not ~ technology is not my strong point, I freely admit. If you do not have time to teach me, one of my grandson's who finished at Georgia Tech can since he's computer specialist engineer guru on a genius level ~ and I still will help you. ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom