"Works Salvation"

[dwight92070]

Jesus is the embodiment of God's word, so saying that he alone is salvation is the same as saying that embodying God's word is the only way of salvation. In other words, God's word is not a different way to the Father than God's word made flesh.

Good post!

 

[brightfame52]

Correct: you cannot shake what the Word of God says!
The only way to receive salvation from God is to be obedient to God. Salvation is not given to anyone who is not obedient to God. It is not that salvation is given AND THEN you obey.

Whenever you condition, require something to be done in order for God to save you, its a principle of law, works you are dealing with, and its contrary to Grace.

 

[brightfame52]

So you're saying that I should stay inert like a rock, do nothing like repent or believe, and I'll be saved according to Calvinist thinking? Boy, are you out to lunch or what?

Im saying if you condition salvation on something you do, its works, a departure from Grace Salvation

 

[synergy]

Im saying if you condition salvation on something you do, its works, a departure from Grace Salvation

When someone graciously offers you a gift, don't you actively open it with thanks and immediately make active use of it? Or do you stay inert like a rock and do absolutely nothing because doing something is works?

 

[Doug Brents]

I think I can answer that question. When TomL says that "both are true", I think he's saying both scriptures are true. That is, the verses that talk about baptism are true and the ones that don't mention baptism are also true. TomL can correct me, if that's not what he meant.
But I would add that the scriptures that include baptism do not conclusively show, that without it, a person is not saved.

Yes, both groups of passages are true, they are Scripture which never negates or contradicts itself. So if both groups are true, then both must work together without conflict. That means that repentance/confession/baptism are absolutely required, and belief/faith encompasses and refers to these actions.

Doug, you have never given your response to 1 Corinthians 1:17. Paul said, "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, ..." If baptism was a requirement for salvation, then why would Paul make this statement? If baptism is necessary for salvation, then why didn't Christ send him to preach the gospel AND baptism?

I have addressed that passage, but am happy to again.
Paul was sent to baptize ((Remember, Jesus sent all of us; the 11 Apostles, then Paul, then everyone that they taught all the way down to us today; out to baptize everyone who accepts the Gospel (Matt 28:19-20), and notice that he did baptize two individuals and a family), but his primary mission was not to reap the harvest, but to plant the Seed. He did not go out expecting to reap a tremendous harvest. He knew that others would follow him who would water the Seed, and they or others to follow them would reap the harvest as God gave the increase. Some of the Seed he planted sprouted immediately, but most took time to grow in the hearts of the people who heard.

Look to why Paul is glad he did not baptize many. Because they were using the person who baptized them as fuel for divisions in the Church, and there should not be divisions in the Church. Paul was glad that he had not baptized many, because that left his name out of the debate (for the most part).

 

[Doug Brents]

Whenever you condition, require something to be done in order for God to save you, its a principle of law, works you are dealing with, and its contrary to Grace.

That is not true. It is works of the Law that are contrary to grace. Several of us have posted multiple passages that condition our reception of God's grace on actions we take in obedience to His command. If God makes an action a condition for receiving His grace, who are you to contradict Him?

 

[brightfame52]

When someone graciously offers you a gift, don't you actively open it with thanks and immediately make active use of it? Or do you stay inert like a rock and do absolutely nothing because doing something is works?

If you condition salvation on something you do, its works, a departure from Grace Salvation

 

[brightfame52]

That is not true. It is works of the Law that are contrary to grace. Several of us have posted multiple passages that condition our reception of God's grace on actions we take in obedience to His command. If God makes an action a condition for receiving His grace, who are you to contradict Him?

Yes it is true, you my friend are operating from a do and live law principle.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes it is true, you my friend are operating from a do and live law principle.

Go back to studying the Word of God, you have much to learn that will not come from your own thoughts, or your study of any man-made doctrinal writings. Come back to the study of God.

 

[synergy]

If you condition salvation on something you do, its works, a departure from Grace Salvation

Tell us where that is explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Eph 2:8-10 is on the "good works" side of things so you can't use those verses for your anti-good works crusade.

 

[brightfame52]

Go back to studying the Word of God, you have much to learn that will not come from your own thoughts, or your study of any man-made doctrinal writings. Come back to the study of God.

May God have mercy on you friend. At this point you a works law keeping salvation guy.

 

[brightfame52]

Tell us where that is explicitly mentioned in the Bible. Eph 2:8-10 is on the "good works" side of things so you can't use those verses for your anti-good works crusade.

Eph 2:8-10 isnt about making works a condition men do to get saved, thats about good works ordained after one is saved.

Now if you condition you getting saved, justified with God, on anything you do, if you base it on blinking your eye, you have departed from Grace Salvation.

 

[synergy]

Eph 2:8-10 isnt about making works a condition men do to get saved, thats about good works ordained after one is saved.

Now if you condition you getting saved, justified with God, on anything you do, if you base it on blinking your eye, you have departed from Grace Salvation.

You stay inert as a rock and tell us how that works out for you.

 

[Doug Brents]

May God have mercy on you friend. At this point you a works law keeping salvation guy.

As I said, you need to study the Word of God more, and man-made, human-authored, doctrines not at all. Calvin was very, very wrong, and your continued adherence to his dogma, while admirable from the perspective of tenacity and grit, is neither Biblical nor righteous.

 

[dwight92070]

Is it time to get out the toy ostrich again?
The toy ostrich sticks its head in the sand for about 30 seconds, then it comes up and says, "You're trying to be saved by works, you're trying to be saved by works.", then it stick's its head back in the sand.
Calvinism makes a toy ostrich out of it's followers. They are programmed just like the ostrich. In this case, the sand is Calvinism.

 

[brightfame52]

You stay inert as a rock and tell us how that works out for you.

Now if you condition you getting saved, justified with God, on anything you do, if you base it on blinking your eye, you have departed from Grace Salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

As I said, you need to study the Word of God more, and man-made, human-authored, doctrines not at all. Calvin was very, very wrong, and your continued adherence to his dogma, while admirable from the perspective of tenacity and grit, is neither Biblical nor righteous.

As I said, may God be pleased to deliver you from the false gospel of works salvation.

 

[Bronson]

What I've always wondered about work salvation is how do you know when you've done enough work? Like the Mormon thing. Or Islam, When you become a martyr and blow yourself up and go straight to paradise you've done your work salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

As I said, may God be pleased to deliver you from the false gospel of works salvation.

When you contribute something more to the discussion than robotic regurgitation of the same nonsense that has already been disproven through Scripture, then we can continue this discussion, until then, see ya'.

 

[dwight92070]

Doug,
How do you explain 1 Corinthians 1:17?