Johann
Well-known member
I am not the jovial kind of man-but I do appreciate your contribution.
J.
Women in Ministry
- Thread starter 101G
- Start date
J.
101G
Well-known member
101G
Well-known member
was Adam the man Created before the woman EVE? yes or No. in your answer you will have it.
101G.
Rockson
Well-known member
Sure but what's your point. I feel I'm the one who showed why that was signicfant to the question of why the male was to have chief leadership. If you have no reason for stating what you've said you might need to ask yourself if you've taken those who read down to a dead end. I mean you just can't create a mystery that you've got an answer but won't clearly state it.
Rockson
Well-known member
(smile too) Sure let's do so.
Yes. So he's saying if a man desires it. Didn't you just make my point? ;He didn't just say if ANYONE desires it and from what I see if that included the female he would have left that as ANYONE.
But aren't you moving away from out point of discussion? It's still talking about a MALE and doesn't include the female here.
;What?????
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all
No point, nor any mystery, just BIBLE facts. the man and the woman were created equal in the beginning. only as one were they in this world, on day 3. Adam the First "MAN" being form first, notice 101G said, "MAN" and both the male and the Female was "MADE" not CREATED, but "MADE" or was manifested on day six, which manifested the Second Adam/man ...... who we know now as Eve. for she was in the First Adam/man that was created, and "Formed" on day three. the Male and the Female was created equally in the beginning. and only and only after the fall in sin was the Male, the HUSBAND the HEADship, or the Leadership in the "HOME" was established. "and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" for the Church was not yet "BUILT"/Formed/establish yet. and this "rule over" is not vertical, but horizonal....... in First to Lead.
101G
101G
Well-known member
did you not read? anyone who is the HUSBAND of ONE wife, and having his children in subjection, and having a good report in and outside of the church. did not 101G say this already?
ERROR, did you follow the criteria above? NO IT DON'T INCLUDE FEMALES, because a female don't. have a Wife. you still don't understand yet ... do you? this is not a Godly qualification for any and everyone, only for the above ascribe, if male that desire the office. come on man think.
101G said:
YET, and did he divorce Judah in whom he was married to? and he's a Bishop.... so that male only, and married only, want fly, nor walk, or crawl. ......
U said! .... ;What?????
well let's check the record, Jeremiah 3:8 "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."
BUT DID HE DIVORCE JUDAH? let's see.
Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away."
he only put here away. not Divorce.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
To all, especially those who don't know nor understand. and also to my freiend @Rockson
let's put this Madness to rest/Bed. the apostle Paul, beside being an apostle, he was a Prophet, Teacher, Preacher, as well as a Pastor/Bishop. let's see it in scripture.....
1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." 1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, (he's a Prophet). and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; (BINGO, he's a Pastor/Bishop, KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING, see Jer. 3:15). and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."
A. 1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, (he's a Prophet).
B. and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; (BINGO, he's a Pastor, KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING, see Jer. 3:15).
C. Teacher? yes, 1 Corinthians 4:17 "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."
D. Preacher? yes, 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."
not many knew he was all these other functions.
now b. as Pastor, and Bishop, which are "OVERSEERS". well if one of the qualification was to be Married, well where is Paul's WIFE? yes, that Just put a crimper into that qualification for bishop for all.
101G.
let's put this Madness to rest/Bed. the apostle Paul, beside being an apostle, he was a Prophet, Teacher, Preacher, as well as a Pastor/Bishop. let's see it in scripture.....
1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal." 1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, (he's a Prophet). and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; (BINGO, he's a Pastor/Bishop, KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING, see Jer. 3:15). and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."
A. 1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, (he's a Prophet).
B. and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; (BINGO, he's a Pastor, KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING, see Jer. 3:15).
C. Teacher? yes, 1 Corinthians 4:17 "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church."
D. Preacher? yes, 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."not many knew he was all these other functions.
now b. as Pastor, and Bishop, which are "OVERSEERS". well if one of the qualification was to be Married, well where is Paul's WIFE? yes, that Just put a crimper into that qualification for bishop for all.
101G.
Last edited:
101G
Well-known member
to all
if one do not, or refuse to ordain a prophetess .... THAT IS CALLED BY GOD, then that person sin. because they resist the power of God. and here's why 101G say this. are not prophets in the church called by God ORDAINED? yes, supportive scripture. 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
this term "set" here is translated as "ORDAIN". it is the Greek word,
G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v.
θέω theo (the'-ō) [an alternate in certain tenses]
1. to place.
2. (properly) to lay in a passive or horizontal posture.
{in the widest application, literally and figuratively; differs from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate}
[a prolonged form of a primary theo theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]
KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down
now to back this up. the apostle Paul used the same word in his Ordination as Preacher and apostle. 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." here, "ordained " is the exact same word G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v. used in 1 Corinthians 12:28 for set.
now, if someone refuse to "ORDAIN" a female Prophet, who God has ... "SET" .... in his church. then that person "SINS" in resisting/disobeying God. and here's the scriptures. Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Romans 13:2 "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." (one need to read that again.
for a prophetess is the derivative of a Male Prophet in the same position.
well there are many in the LEADERSHIP position that are sinners. yes, 101G said it. they are IGNORANT, (which a many of civil Judges would say, "that's no excuse for the Law). or they are downright prejudice, and have respect of person in the body of the Lord Jesus the Christ, ... again they sin.
101G.
if one do not, or refuse to ordain a prophetess .... THAT IS CALLED BY GOD, then that person sin. because they resist the power of God. and here's why 101G say this. are not prophets in the church called by God ORDAINED? yes, supportive scripture. 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
this term "set" here is translated as "ORDAIN". it is the Greek word,
G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v.
θέω theo (the'-ō) [an alternate in certain tenses]
1. to place.
2. (properly) to lay in a passive or horizontal posture.
{in the widest application, literally and figuratively; differs from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate}
[a prolonged form of a primary theo theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]
KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down
now to back this up. the apostle Paul used the same word in his Ordination as Preacher and apostle. 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not
a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." here, "ordained " is the exact same word G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v. used in 1 Corinthians 12:28 for set.now, if someone refuse to "ORDAIN" a female Prophet, who God has ... "SET" .... in his church. then that person "SINS" in resisting/disobeying God. and here's the scriptures. Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Romans 13:2 "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." (one need to read that again.
for a prophetess is the derivative of a Male Prophet in the same position.
well there are many in the LEADERSHIP position that are sinners. yes, 101G said it. they are IGNORANT, (which a many of civil Judges would say, "that's no excuse for the Law). or they are downright prejudice, and have respect of person in the body of the Lord Jesus the Christ, ... again they sin.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
to all,
going back over Joel 2:28 & 29, the Holy Spirit reveal something to me that 101G had not seen before. compare these two verses, and tell me if you see it also.
OT: Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."
NT the apostle Peter under the influence of the Holy Spirit said this in quoting Joel,
Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:18 "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
if anyone see a difference in both verses, let 101G know what you see different. thanks in advance.
101G.
going back over Joel 2:28 & 29, the Holy Spirit reveal something to me that 101G had not seen before. compare these two verses, and tell me if you see it also.
OT: Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit."
NT the apostle Peter under the influence of the Holy Spirit said this in quoting Joel,
Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" Acts 2:18 "And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
if anyone see a difference in both verses, let 101G know what you see different. thanks in advance.
101G.
Complete
Well-known member
'For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.'
(Gal 3:26-29)
Hello @101G,
Looking at the verse (above) that you referred to in your OP, it is telling us that nationality nor gender has any relevance where our standing before God, in Christ, is concerned, for we are all one in Christ Jesus. As far as the roles that each are to play, then there is a distinction made between male and female, because Paul distinctly says that a woman should not teach, and tells us why, in 1 Timothy:-
'But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man,
but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.'
(1Tim. 2:12)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Johann
Well-known member
In 1 Timothy 2:11-13, the apostle Paul addresses the roles and behavior of women in the church. Let's delve into an exegesis of this passage:
1 Timothy 2:11 - "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission." This verse emphasizes the importance of women learning in a spirit of quietness and submission within the church community.
1 Timothy 2:12 - "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." This verse is often interpreted as restricting women from teaching or having authority over men in the church setting.
1 Timothy 2:13 - Paul references Adam being formed first, then Eve, highlighting the order of creation as part of his argument regarding gender roles.
In interpreting these verses, it's crucial to consider the cultural context of Paul's time, where societal norms often dictated gender roles and expectations. However, it's also essential to examine other passages in the Bible that shed light on women's roles in ministry:
Genesis 2:18 - God created Eve as a helper suitable for Adam, indicating a complementary relationship rather than one of inferiority.
Judges 4:4 - Deborah served as a judge and prophetess in Israel, demonstrating that women could hold leadership roles.
Acts 18:26 - Priscilla, along with her husband Aquila, instructed Apollos in the way of God, showcasing a partnership in ministry.
While some passages like 1 Timothy 2:12 may seem to restrict women from preaching or teaching authoritatively over men, other biblical examples suggest a more nuanced view of women's involvement in ministry.
Ultimately, interpretations of these verses can vary among individuals and denominations. It's essential to prayerfully study Scripture, seek guidance from the Holy Spirit, and engage in respectful dialogue with others to discern God's will regarding women's roles in preaching and leadership within the church.
J.
101G
Well-known member
First thanks for your response. but consider this.... it the term "Woman" there in 1Tim. 2:12 a Wife? and is this a home setting, and not a church setting.
101G.
Johann
Well-known member
The question of whether women can preach in church or be pastors has been a topic of debate within Christian circles. While some interpretations of certain biblical passages suggest restrictions on women in leadership roles, it is essential to consider various perspectives and interpretations.
Scriptural Perspectives:
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12 are often cited as verses that seem to limit the role of women in ministry, emphasizing silence and subjection. However, these verses need to be understood in their historical and cultural context.
Galatians 3:28 highlights the equality of all believers in Christ, irrespective of gender, nationality, or social status.
1 Corinthians 12:28 emphasizes the diversity of roles and gifts within the body of Christ, without specifying gender restrictions.
Historical Examples:
Women like Priscilla, Junia, Euodia, and Syntyche are mentioned in the Bible as active participants in teaching, leading, and ministering alongside men.
Deborah, Miriam, and Huldah from the Old Testament served as prophets and leaders.
Interpretations:
Some interpretations suggest that while women can serve in various capacities within the church, there may be restrictions on specific roles like teaching men or having spiritual authority over men.
The interpretation of passages like 1 Timothy 2:11-12 is debated, with some emphasizing cultural context and others focusing on theological principles.
Contemporary Views:
Views on women in ministry vary among Christian denominations, with some allowing women to serve as pastors and others maintaining restrictions based on their understanding of biblical teachings.
In conclusion, while there are differing interpretations regarding women's roles in ministry within Christianity, it is essential to approach this topic with sensitivity to historical context, theological principles, and a spirit of unity within the body of Christ. Each individual or denomination may hold varying perspectives on this issue based on their understanding of scripture and tradition.
J.
Johann
Well-known member
In 1 Timothy 2:12, the term "woman" used in the original Greek is "γυνή" (gynē), which generally refers to a woman or a wife depending on the context in which it is used. In this verse, the context suggests that it is referring to women in general rather than specifically wives.
The verse itself does not explicitly mention a home setting; rather, it addresses the conduct and roles of women in the church setting. The broader context of 1 Timothy 2 discusses instructions for public worship and behavior within the church community.
While some interpretations may suggest that these instructions are specific to a home setting, the language and context of 1 Timothy 2:12 indicate that it pertains to women's conduct within the church assembly rather than solely within a domestic environment.
Interpreting this verse within its broader context and considering the cultural norms and practices of the time can help provide a more nuanced understanding of Paul's instructions regarding women's roles in the church community.
J.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @Johann,
Looking at your references and comment:-
1 Timothy 2:11-13 - Paul gives his reasons, and they supersede cultural influences
Genesis 2:18 - no inferiority, a helpmeet role
Judges 4:4- Leadership is not teaching the word of God.
Acts 18:26 - Priscilla covered by her husband, working in partnership
* The word of God should determine our actions.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
101G
Well-known member
yes, it is critical to understand context. as I said to complete, is this a church setting, or a home setting?
again, thanks for the response. but consider this. do not women PREACH? yes, for women are Prophets also. and prophets preach..... case in point. was not Jonah sent by God to Nineveh to ..... "PREACH" to them repentance? see Jonah 3:1 & 2.
101G.
Johann
Well-known member
1 Timothy 2:11-13 - Acknowledge that Paul's instructions in this passage are significant and should be carefully considered. However, it's essential to interpret these verses within their historical and cultural context to understand the underlying principles Paul was addressing.
Genesis 2:18 - Agree that the role of a helpmeet does not imply inferiority but rather emphasizes a complementary relationship between man and woman. This highlights the importance of partnership and mutual support in relationships.
Judges 4:4 - Recognize that leadership roles can take various forms and may not always involve teaching the word of God directly. Deborah's leadership as a judge and prophetess showcases that women can play significant roles in guiding and leading others.
Acts 18:26 - Highlight the partnership between Priscilla and Aquila as an example of collaborative ministry within marriage. This demonstrates that women can work alongside men in ministry, contributing their gifts and talents in service to God.
Overall Perspective - Emphasize the importance of allowing the word of God to guide our actions and decisions. While considering cultural influences and historical context, it is crucial to seek a balanced understanding of biblical teachings regarding women's roles in the church.
J.
Johann
Well-known member
Prophetic Ministry:
In the Bible, prophets were called by God to deliver messages to His people, often involving preaching or proclaiming God's word.
Women in the Bible, such as Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, and Anna, served as prophetesses who conveyed God's messages and played significant roles in guiding and instructing His people.
Jonah's Mission:
Jonah was indeed sent by God to Nineveh to preach repentance and deliver a message of judgment. This demonstrates that prophetic ministry involves proclaiming God's word and calling people to repentance.
Women Preaching:
Given the examples of prophetesses in the Bible and the nature of prophetic ministry involving preaching, it is evident that women can indeed preach and proclaim God's message.
Women have been used by God throughout history to speak His truth, share His word, and lead others to repentance and faith.
Biblical Support:
Galatians 3:28 affirms the equality of all believers in Christ, emphasizing that there is no distinction based on gender in terms of spiritual gifts and callings.
Acts 2:17-18 speaks of both sons and daughters prophesying, indicating that God pours out His Spirit on all people, empowering them for ministry.
By highlighting these biblical examples and principles, you can show that women have a valid role in preaching and prophetic ministry based on their gifting and calling from God. Encouraging a broader understanding of women's contributions in ministry can lead to a more inclusive and empowered church community.
J.
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