Women in Ministry

[101G]

Another Woman Preacher, who Preached redemption before John the Baptist. Luke 2:36 "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;" Luke 2:37 "And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day." Luke 2:38 "And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem."

here the term "spake" is the Greek term,
G2980 λαλέω laleo (lal-ye'-ō) v.
to talk, i.e. speak words.
[a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb]
KJV: preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter

Prophet preach.

101G.

 

[101G]

nope Gods roles are the same in the marriage and in the church. God is not a God of confusion. Paul and Peter wrote their letters to the CHUCHES.

ERROR, 101G must disagree with your statement. and here's the scripture. Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

the keyword is "rule over" not Rule her, nor rule with her... NO. the rule over is to be the first to Lead, the first to serve, the first to protect, the first to provide... ect...... God establish the Home before he establish the Church. Godliness starts at the Home, the induvial, the head of the home.

as for roles, if a "WIFE" is a Pastor at church and her Husband is usher are the roles the same at home as the church? no....

this is why the apostle stated the wife not to usurp "authority" over her HUSBAND at Home. the husband is the authority at home. if his wife is the Pastor at church, then she is the authority there. Carnal, and Spiritual. learn to separate them.

101G.

101G.

 

[civic]

ERROR, 101G must disagree with your statement. and here's the scripture. Genesis 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

the keyword is "rule over" not Rule her, nor rule with her... NO. the rule over is to be the first to Lead, the first to serve, the first to protect, the first to provide... ect...... God establish the Home before he establish the Church. Godliness starts at the Home, the induvial, the head of the home.

as for roles, if a "WIFE" is a Pastor at church and her Husband is usher are the roles the same at home as the church? no....

this is why the apostle stated the wife not to usurp "authority" over her HUSBAND at Home. the husband is the authority at home. if his wife is the Pastor at church, then she is the authority there. Carnal, and Spiritual. learn to separate them.

101G.

101G.

I see you reject biblical submission

 

[101G]

I see you reject biblical submission

No, enforces it.

101G.

 

[Aeliana]

Here's an excellent video from a woman of God, that's probably had more impact on the kingdom of God than any of us ever will.

A message we all need to here.

 

[Obadiah]

Yeah, those people. You know the ones. They make posts that we don't agree with.

 

[Rockson]

First I don't know exactly what I think about this subject. I'm certainly open to reassess my view. I believe many make a claim to this or a claim of that ....some of it may be true in itself but it can be a detour from the actual question. Meaning some say Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene after the resurrectoin....so see there! God cares about women too!

Well of course he does. No one should deny that. But that doesn't answer the question should females be let's say leaders in the church as in pastors, chief elders etc. or teachers? So when we discuss this it's hard not to let emotions arise.

We do live in a culture which puts forth that equality in ALL things should be the rule. We really don't believe that though that is....IN ALL THINGS. Humans and genders do have different capacities....doesn't mean one is superior to another.....just different. But let's go into this subject by another door. People do get offended at the idea that females may not have the same capacity as a male.....but let's see the other side of the coin.

Eph 6:4 says....."Fathers provoke not your children to anger" Hmmm.....doesn't sound fair to the male gender does it? Why didn't it say mothers don't provoke your children ? Well....nature tells us something doesn't it? Males are MORE PRONE as a general rule to be more forward and not as motherly and compassionate as a female. Who could deny this? So the female is not more prone to loose their temper with the offspring. I mean we just KNOW that's the case. What's the ole saying even in culture....wait to your father gets home! Right?

The male gender is more wired to be a disciplinarian or the one to set things in order and let's hold with this for a second......do you not think perhaps that the church needs that same prone tendency working though a leader? Wouldn't it be wise to have the gender that's more wired to be the more standup, bringing things in order as one's in authority?

I might be offending some here but aren't I telling you what nature tells us. If I said all the above to you outside of our topic most all here would agree with me....YES....THE MALE is the more bring things in line or their more of the standup disciplinarian. A female does temper him though bringing some balance and compassion.....but....the male is more equipped by nature in setting things straight. So it seems to me males ARE meant to be the leaders. Now lets look at the verse below,

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now watch the next words "For.....for.....FOR....(in saying FOR this tells us the reason why and no offence but in all the posts on this thread I haven't' seen anyone quote the actual reason why.....and the reason is given after the word FOR.....see below,

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

(I'd say we can't get around that folks. That's talking about order or sequence. That's the reason that males are to be the leaders that is in the church. Let's read on...--->

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So it seems it's saying male and female were created with different roles. Adam was given chief authority and Eve was to be his helpmate. And also....and this is where I make more people mad.....that females potentially can manifest a certain weakness (and I'm talking about generally speaking) that males don't which is.....females can be taken in more easily.

If i was to say the word potentially more gullible I'm sure some would like to stone me. Hold on now before you do.....I've already shared here that MALES have a certain inherit weakness too, just so you know I'm balanced. I've told you from Eph6:4 that males, FATHERS not mothers are told to be careful about their weakness that THEY as a gender are prone to, which is loosing their temper with the offspring.....where a mother, female isn't wired particularly that way. OK last verse now watch this,

15Notwithstanding she shall (the female) shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Now many have scratched their heads over this verse. Saved by giving kids? No. It's not saved as in sins being forgiven, its talking about when she gives up her thought of wanting to be a leader in the church or having authority over the male..... she'll find fulfillment and achieve her real destiny in being a good mother in the home...NOT AN INFERIOR thing by the way.

She's the one with the motherly love and compassion that fills that necessary role. The male struggles with bringing that forth from himself in the same way a female can have some weaknesses in what they can be prone to. That's why marriage break up with kids involved is so sad. You need both types of influence.

In closing this is what I believe the scriptures are saying. I admit I could be wrong still willing to think more on the subject......But one thing I know I'm not wrong on......the Bible DOES say and indicate genders ARE more prone to be a certain way over another. which we could call a weakness....Doesn't Eph 6: 4 prove this beyond question about the male? Perhaps the scriptures DO speak of the female's strengths and weaknesses too?

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all,

Well of course he does. No one should deny that. But that doesn't answer the question should females be let's say leaders in the church as in pastors, chief elders etc. or teachers? So when we discuss this it's hard not to let emotions arise.

glad you asked that question, can a female be in Lead roles as Pastors. did you know that Pastor/Bishop/Overseer are a "GIFT" of God? scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
Question, is God a respecter of person? and is there Male and Female in the body of Christ? answer NO. in this verse, 1 Corinthians 12:8, this is a Pastoral Gift, and verse 27 states, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." these Spiritual Gifts, listed here in 1 Corinthians 12:8- 10, is for EVERY Man, correct. and the Greek term EVERY MAN is, G1538 ἕκαστος hekastos (he'-ka-stos) adj.
each or every.
[as if a superlative of hekas (afar)]
KJV: any, both, each (one), every (man, one, woman), particularly.

so these Spiritual Gifts are for women also. and the first gift on the List, as said, is the Pastoral Gift. and if this gift is just for MALES ONLY, the verse 7 LIED. meaning God Lie, (God forbid). for if these gifts listed here are for males only then God is a respecter of Person, and the bible then is not true. again, meaning God is not TRUE. well 101G agrees with the Word of God and 101G assert that God is TRUE, meaning his word is TRUE, and God do not LIE, (which I know you know already). now, knowing this, the first Gift on the list is a Pastoral Gifts. "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom". if 101G speak a word of Wisdom to you, one will get "UNDERSTANDING, correct? let's see it. Proverbs 1:2 "To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;" so a word of wisdom gives UNDERSTANDING, and verse 8 also say, "to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit" so, we have KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING spoken. now let's see what a Pastor do. Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding." BINGO, there it is, Pastors, they feed/speak knowledge and understanding. and You ask .... "are women ELDERS" yes, for an Elder is only a senior Pastor. let's see it in scripture. at Miletum the apostle Paul calls the elders. watch what he says unto these ... "ELDERS". Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Elders feed the flock of God. here the term "OVERSEER" is the Greek term G1985 ἐπίσκοπος episkopos (e-piy'-sko-pos) n.
1. an overseer.
2. (in genitive case) one of the co-superintendents entrusted with the well-being of a local assembly or of assemblies within a city or location.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G1909 and G4649 (in the sense of G1983)]
KJV: bishop, overseer
Root(s): G1909, G4649

an overseer is a bishop, just as the KJV can translate it, a "co-superintendents, as said, "which feed the flock of God", which is nothing but a PASTOR, as we say in the western world. so yes, a female can be a Pastor/Bishop/Overseer in the Body of Christ, that oversee the flock of God, by feeding it with KNOWLEDGE, and UN DERSTANDING.

So it seems it's saying male and female were created with different roles.

ERROR, Males and Females have different roles at HOME... at HOME, once again "AT HOME". but not so in the body of Christ. understand the difference between the term Males/Husband, and Females/Wives. yes, they can be the same person, but different roles depend on setting. either at HOME, or at CHURCH.

Adam was given chief authority and Eve was to be his helpmate.

only in SIN. but before the fall into sin, both have the same dominion. supportive scripture, Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." this was before sin entered into the world.

hope this help. 101G suggest you re-read this post for clarity, and Edification.

if you have any question, please ask.

101G.

 

[Johann]

an overseer is a bishop, just as the KJV can translate it, a "co-superintendents, as said, "which feed the flock of God", which is nothing but a PASTOR, as we say in the western world. so yes, a female can be a Pastor/Bishop/Overseer in the Body of Christ, that oversee the flock of God, by feeding it with KNOWLEDGE, and UN DERSTANDING.

Paul now commences an important section dealing with spiritual
gifts. It is clear that the Corinthian church had an abundance of
these gifts, and this in spite of their carnal state.

To teach that the
possession of these gifts today is a mark of spirituality, or of some
special filling of the Spirit, is quite contrary to Scriptural facts, as
we shall see.

It is possible that the believers at Corinth had raised
the matter concerning gifts in their communication with him. As
this matter was directly connected with their public worship, the
Apostle now deals with it.

"Now concerning spritual gifts, brethren, ( would not have you
ignorant. Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto
those dumb idols, howsoever ye might be led. Wherefore I give you to
understand, that no man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is
anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit"
(12:1-3 R.Y.).

The word "gifts" is not in the original; it could be rendered
"spiritual matters", but as the context makes clear that it is special
gifts of the Holy Spirit which are being discussed, it is better to
supply the word "gifts". There was evidently a large Gentile
section in the Corinthian assembly, for the Apostle refers to their
pre-conversion days as idolaters under the domination of the evil
Satanic spirits that were behind the dumb idols they worshipped.
142 1 CORINTHIANS

While redemption had delivered them from this bondage, it was
a mistake to suppose that there was no danger now from Satanic
activity. In one sense these gifts constituted a danger, for Paul
makes it clear in this epistle and the one that was to follow, that
Satan, as an angel of light, can travesty these gifts and so deceive
the unwary. It is quite wrong to imagine that the great enemy of
God and His children, gave believers a holiday, as it were, till the
second century with its developed Gnosticism. The battle
between light and darkness never ceases, and the error that the
Apostle combated at Colossae, the warnings contained in the
Pastoral epistles and the command of the Apostle John to "test the
spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets are
gone out into the world" (l John 4: 1)and that the spirit of antichrist
was already present (2:18), show quite clearly that this was so, and
therefore the danger existed of being led astray.

We wish that those today who are anxious to bring back some of
these gifts, in particular tongue speaking, would bear in mind the
danger of what they are seeking to do.

In New Testament times ecstatic heathen worship was a fact, as
it is still today in dark centres of heathendom. Paul either knew
that this had already entered the Corinthian church, or there was
the possibility of it doing so.

Thus he states categorically that no one under the influence of
God's Spirit can say that Jesus is accursed, nor would anyone
under Satanic domination own His lordship, for this is the very
thing that Satan covets for himself, and he certainly would not
allow any of his dupes to advertise the supremacy of Christ!

It seems clear that the Apostle had the worship of the assembly
in mind in this long section dealing with spiritual gifts, which
occupies this chapter and also chapters thirteen and fourteen. In
consequence, he is not referring to every day speech (although
what he said would cover this) but speech in the assembly, which
would be either under the guidance of God, or under Satanic
influence. Anyone of course at any time could pronounce the
words "Lord Jesus", whether saved or unsaved, but no one in the
assembly's worship could use this phrase in teaching or witness
and be under the control of the evil one.

Having made this clear, Paul now goes on to discuss the spiritual
gifts themselves:
'There are distributions of gifts, but the same Spirit; there are
distributions of services, and the same Lord; and there are distributions of operations, but the same God who operates all things in all
men. To each one is given his own manifestation of the Spirit, with a
view to mutual profit. For to one there is given, through the Spirit, a
word of wisdom; to another, in accordance with the same Spirit, a
word of knowledge; to another faith, in the same Spirit; to another
gifts of healing, in the one Spirit; to another the working of miracles,
to another prophecy, to another the power to distinguish between
spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these things the same one Spirit puts into operation, distributing individually to each one as He wills"
(l Cor. 12:4-11 C. K. Barrett).

There is no difficulty with the main theme of this section. Note
that Spirit, Lord and God are used interchangeably. However
varied the gifts may be, they have one source, the Holy Spirit of
God. They were not distributed to give any feeling of superiority,
but for the mutual profit of the whole church (verse 7).

Just as there
was no uniformity of experience, neither was there of gifts. Nor
were these gifts the privilege of the few who had had some special
spiritual experience. To each one of the assembly is given his own
manifestation of the Spirit (verse 7) and the Spirit divided these
gifts exactly "as He willed". No believer was responsible for the
kind of gift he received, but he was certainly responsible for the
way he used it, which primarily was meant for the Lord's glory and
the common good. In view of the attempts to revive tongue speaking today apart from the gifts as a whole, it is significant that Paul
puts speaking in tongues at the bottom of the list. Furthermore, he
nowhere teaches that tongue speaking was a gift which the Holy
Spirit gave to every believer, or that it was an evidence of spiritual
maturity. It was probably coveted by some because of its outward
showiness, but the Apostle commences with one that is infinitely
more important, but without any external attraction, that of wisdom. Why? Because wisdom isfundamental in the practical outworking of any gift or service for the Lord. Who is going to give
away anything of real value t6 foolish people who will only misuse
it?
It is noteworthy that, in his prayer for the Ephesian believers,
144 I CORINTHIANS
Paul again puts wisdom first (Eph. 1:17). "If any man lack wisdom
(and we all do to some extent) let him ask of God, that giveth to all
men liberally ... " (James 1:5), so there is no excuse for any
believer to remain foolish, or to think or act foolishly. This only
hinders the Truth, and lets the Lord down before an unbelieving
world.
The next evidential gift of the Spirit in chapter 12 is knowledge.

That this was given without human mediation is clear by the
context, where all the gifts come directly from the Spirit of God. 1
John 2:20 refers to this by saying, "But ye have an unction (anointing) from the Holy One (i.e. The Holy Spirit) and ye. know all
things". And again in 2:27, "But the anointing which ye have
received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man
teach you."

One of the gifts of the ascended Christ for His Body is
"teachers" (Eph, 4:11), but there is no mention in this epistle of
any supernatural gift of knowledge without human effort, such as
existed in the church at Corinth.

We may wish there was such
today, but now we find we have to search the Scriptures patiently,
comparing spiritual things with spiritual; we need to pray for
enlightenment too before such Divine knowledge becomes our
personal possession.

While there were teachers in the churches
during the period covered by the Acts, it is evident that some who
had the special gift of knowledge were independent of them,
though not in a schismatic sense, for the will of God was for all to
work together as members of a body, in united witness.

Faith is the next special gift, and it is obvious this cannot be the
initiatory faith ofthe sinner believing in Christ as Saviour, for such
a faith would be possessed by all true believers. It would be rather
the faith of the pioneer, willing to undertake new and possibly
difficult work for Christ, not only in the assembly, but outside. We
have a modern example of this in George Muller and his work for
destitute children.

Now follows gifts of healing, and the Acts is full of concrete
examples of this. (Acts 3:7,8; 4:16,30; 5:15,16; 8:6,7; 9:33,34;
14:8-10; 19:11,12; 28:8,9). Note that the healing was instantaneous
and complete, and we may be sure that there was no relapse! When


modem healing campaigns are compared to this, their pitiful
inadequacy is only too obvious.

And yet they claim to be fulfilling
the same ministry as obtained in the Acts! How folk can be so
duped as to believe this only goes to show the utter ignorance of the
New Testament that abounds today.

The healing ministry we are dealing with has its roots in the Old
Testament in God's promises to Israel:

" ... If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy
God ... I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have
brought upon/he Egyptians ... " (Exod. 15:26).
"And ye shall serve the Lord your God, and He shall bless thy
bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of
thee" (Exod. 23:25).

"Thou shalt be blessed above all people: ... and the Lord will
take away from thee all sickness ... " (Deut. 7:14,15).

There is no doubt that definite Divine healing was promised to
this earthly people of God. This was repeated in the Lord's commission of the Twelve to Israel:
" And as ye go, preach, saying, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out
demons ... " (Matt. 10:7,8).

This very healing ministry was also performed by the Lord day
by day, as the Gospel records clearly show, and the same ministry
continues without a break till Israel is laid aside at the end of the
Acts.

After this, Paul's healing ministry, so effective before (see
Acts 19:11,12), now no longer obtains (Phil. 2:25-27; 1Tim. 5:23; 2
Tim. 4:20).

This divine healing was one of the foretastes of the coming
earthly kingdom, where there will not only be abundant spiritual
blessing but physical health and blessing as well. If we are aiming
for truth and not wishful thinking, we shall keep this ministry
where the Bible places it-with Israel and God's earthly kingdom
purposes. To wrench it from this setting as so many have done is to
get difficulty, and disillusionment, as well as confusion in our
understanding of the Divine plan of the ages.

The Early And Pastoral Epistles Of Paul in PDF - Believer.com

this book is an exposition of six of paul's epistles; 1 & 2 thessalonians, 1 & 2 corinthians, titus, and 1 timothy. the epistles divide into two groups; pre and post acts.

believer.com

Shalom.
J.

 

[Rockson]

GINOLJC, to all,

What does this mean?

glad you asked that question, can a female be in Lead roles as Pastors. did you know that Pastor/Bishop/Overseer are a "GIFT" of God? scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"

I'd say those are the gifts of the Spirit. Those who are delegated to have authority can be considered a different matter.

Question, is God a respecter of person? and is there Male and Female in the body of Christ?

God is no respecter of persons but consider you could be taking this too far in a wrong application. eg. The Levites we're to be made the priests of God in the OT. So can we say he was a respecter of persons in giving this stipulation? I'd say not. Many other type examples. The Apostles of the Lamb were all Jewish not one Gentile. Can we say God was a respecter of persons? No he wasn't. I'd suggest you just can't apply verses like this to ministry.

answer NO. in this verse, 1 Corinthians 12:8, this is a Pastoral Gift, and verse 27 states, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal." these Spiritual Gifts, listed here in 1 Corinthians 12:8- 10, is for EVERY Man, correct. and the Greek term EVERY MAN is, G1538 ἕκαστος hekastos (he'-ka-stos) adj.
each or every.

I get it but you don't think you might be trying to fit this truth into a universal application in regard to who has authority? I'd suggest you might be doing so.

so these Spiritual Gifts are for women also. and the first gift on the List, as said, is the Pastoral Gift.

Hold it now....let's back up. I just read all of 1 Cor 12 and I don't even see the word Pastoral in the text.

hope this help. 101G suggest you re-read this post for clarity, and Edification.

Yeah sure. You do the same to mine too. I wouldn't be too nice a guy if I didn't want the same thing for you .

 

[civic]

No, enforces it.

101G.

As Christ submits to the Father ,

First I don't know exactly what I think about this subject. I'm certainly open to reassess my view. I believe many make a claim to this or a claim of that ....some of it may be true in itself but it can be a detour from the actual question. Meaning some say Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene after the resurrectoin....so see there! God cares about women too!

Well of course he does. No one should deny that. But that doesn't answer the question should females be let's say leaders in the church as in pastors, chief elders etc. or teachers? So when we discuss this it's hard not to let emotions arise.

We do live in a culture which puts forth that equality in ALL things should be the rule. We really don't believe that though that is....IN ALL THINGS. Humans and genders do have different capacities....doesn't mean one is superior to another.....just different. But let's go into this subject by another door. People do get offended at the idea that females may not have the same capacity as a male.....but let's see the other side of the coin.

Eph 6:4 says....."Fathers provoke not your children to anger" Hmmm.....doesn't sound fair to the male gender does it? Why didn't it say mothers don't provoke your children ? Well....nature tells us something doesn't it? Males are MORE PRONE as a general rule to be more forward and not as motherly and compassionate as a female. Who could deny this? So the female is not more prone to loose their temper with the offspring. I mean we just KNOW that's the case. What's the ole saying even in culture....wait to your father gets home! Right?

The male gender is more wired to be a disciplinarian or the one to set things in order and let's hold with this for a second......do you not think perhaps that the church needs that same prone tendency working though a leader? Wouldn't it be wise to have the gender that's more wired to be the more standup, bringing things in order as one's in authority?

I might be offending some here but aren't I telling you what nature tells us. If I said all the above to you outside of our topic most all here would agree with me....YES....THE MALE is the more bring things in line or their more of the standup disciplinarian. A female does temper him though bringing some balance and compassion.....but....the male is more equipped by nature in setting things straight. So it seems to me males ARE meant to be the leaders. Now lets look at the verse below,

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now watch the next words "For.....for.....FOR....(in saying FOR this tells us the reason why and no offence but in all the posts on this thread I haven't' seen anyone quote the actual reason why.....and the reason is given after the word FOR.....see below,

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

(I'd say we can't get around that folks. That's talking about order or sequence. That's the reason that males are to be the leaders that is in the church. Let's read on...--->

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So it seems it's saying male and female were created with different roles. Adam was given chief authority and Eve was to be his helpmate. And also....and this is where I make more people mad.....that females potentially can manifest a certain weakness (and I'm talking about generally speaking) that males don't which is.....females can be taken in more easily.

If i was to say the word potentially more gullible I'm sure some would like to stone me. Hold on now before you do.....I've already shared here that MALES have a certain inherit weakness too, just so you know I'm balanced. I've told you from Eph6:4 that males, FATHERS not mothers are told to be careful about their weakness that THEY as a gender are prone to, which is loosing their temper with the offspring.....where a mother, female isn't wired particularly that way. OK last verse now watch this,

15Notwithstanding she shall (the female) shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Now many have scratched their heads over this verse. Saved by giving kids? No. It's not saved as in sins being forgiven, its talking about when she gives up her thought of wanting to be a leader in the church or having authority over the male..... she'll find fulfillment and achieve her real destiny in being a good mother in the home...NOT AN INFERIOR thing by the way.

She's the one with the motherly love and compassion that fills that necessary role. The male struggles with bringing that forth from himself in the same way a female can have some weaknesses in what they can be prone to. That's why marriage break up with kids involved is so sad. You need both types of influence.

In closing this is what I believe the scriptures are saying. I admit I could be wrong still willing to think more on the subject......But one thing I know I'm not wrong on......the Bible DOES say and indicate genders ARE more prone to be a certain way over another. which we could call a weakness....Doesn't Eph 6: 4 prove this beyond question about the male? Perhaps the scriptures DO speak of the female's strengths and weaknesses too?

Spot on with the differences in roles which I pointed out earlier as the way God created man/woman to represent God in those roles. There are roles within the Tri-Unity of God with submission of the Son with the Father and the Holy Spirit with the Son and the Father.

God has designed both in the physical family and the spiritual family of God the differences in those roles. Men are the leaders in both. Those who disagree or take issue with that need to take that up with God since He designed the family and the church to operate this way.

 

[Johann]

I'd say those are the gifts of the Spirit. Those who are delegated to have authority can be considered a different matter.

Paul says women shouldn’t lead men since they were designed to be followers not leaders (2:13). In addition to being second in creation they were first in the fall (v.14) because they are more easily deceived, as when Solomon’s mother didn’t know giving his brother David’s wife to his older brother would give him a claim to the throne (IKi.2: 17-22 cf. IISam.12:7,8). Paul knew women are more easily deceived doctrinally as well (IICor.11:3), and Satan loves it when women become pastors, get deceived, and lead others in deception.

A woman can’t lead men but they can bear children and lead them (2:15). Women naturally “desire” to rule their husbands (Gen.3:16), but their part of the curse is that he must override this desire and rule them (cf.Gen.4:7). Of course, these women who started on the right path by choosing to have children must “continue” on the right path (2:15) by ruling their children well, or they’ll become unruly and she’ll return to wanting to rule her husband.

 

[Rockson]

ERROR, Males and Females have different roles at HOME... at HOME, once again "AT HOME". but not so in the body of Christ.

So then I think you need to explain 1 Tim 3:2 that those in authority or Pastors need to, be the husband of one wife"
Why didn't it just say then they need to be blameless, the vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; It seems to me if all were potentially called into the leaders with authority he for sure would NOT have said, "the husband of one wife".

 

[Rockson]

only in SIN. but before the fall into sin, both have the same dominion.

I don't think you did justice 101G to what I pointed out from the scripture. Let's look at it again, 1 Tim 2:13

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now I get it I know that's a tough row to hole for some people. and I don't think it means they can't share a teaching to those about them in the streets, market place or whatever but it's talking about order in the actual gathering of believers. And to me what's continually bypassed around is why Paul said this and he did give the reason.....FOR....FOR....FOR he said This is the reason why....."For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

I know we're all motivated to think about 1 Tim 3:13 different ways but we must allow what I consider to be a clear statement to stand. Here's the reason why? Because of a sequence in order.....Adam was formed first then Eve. It was NOTHING to do with what happened after they sinned. So I'm inclined to believe roles and authority are meant to be understood this way that is because of the sequence.

 

[101G]

However
varied the gifts may be, they have one source, the Holy Spirit of
God. They were not distributed to give any feeling of superiority,
but for the mutual profit of the whole church (verse 7).

100% correct, Good read. agent "J" you're re-hired........ (smile).....

101G

 

[101G]

What does this mean?

GINOLJC? it's a general Greeting. an acronym for,
Greeting, In (the) Name, Of, (the) Lord, Jesus (the) Christ. NO "T" as in (the), no more Cross.

I'd say those are the gifts of the Spirit. Those who are delegated to have authority can be considered a different matter.

yes, the gifts of the Spirit for "WORK"/ yes SERVICE. and these works may or may not be in an administrative role of Leadership.

God is no respecter of persons but consider you could be taking this too far in a wrong application. eg. The Levites we're to be made the priests of God in the OT. So can we say he was a respecter of persons in giving this stipulation? I'd say not. Many other type examples. The Apostles of the Lamb were all Jewish not one Gentile. Can we say God was a respecter of persons? No he wasn't. I'd suggest you just can't apply verses like this to ministry.

that was OT Covenant, we're are under a NEW COVENANT, which there is no discrimination of any kind. all are the same.... please note, it is the Spirit who gives these Gifts and he knows who he needs in these gifts. 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

I get it but you don't think you might be trying to fit this truth into a universal application in regard to who has authority? I'd suggest you might be doing so.

this is a good question, which deserve a good answer, and here it is. Only God is the only authority with power. Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Romans 13:2 "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." Romans 13:3 "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:" Romans 13:4 "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." Romans 13:5 "Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake." Romans 13:6 "For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing." Romans 13:7 "Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."

Hold it now....let's back up. I just read all of 1 Cor 12 and I don't even see the word Pastoral in the text.

you must not read all of 101G's Post. LISTEN again.

now, knowing this, the first Gift on the list is a Pastoral Gifts. "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom". if 101G speak a word of Wisdom to you, one will get "UNDERSTANDING, correct? let's see it. Proverbs 1:2 "To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;" so a word of wisdom gives UNDERSTANDING, and verse 8 also say, "to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit" so, we have KNOWLEDGE and UNDERSTANDING spoken. now let's see what a Pastor do. Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding." BINGO, there it is, Pastors, they feed/speak knowledge and understanding. and You ask .... "are women ELDERS" yes, for an Elder is only a senior Pastor. let's see it in scripture. at Miletum the apostle Paul calls the elders. watch what he says unto these ... "ELDERS". Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Elders feed the flock of God. here the term "OVERSEER" is the Greek term G1985 ἐπίσκοπος episkopos (e-piy'-sko-pos) n.
1. an overseer.
2. (in genitive case) one of the co-superintendents entrusted with the well-being of a local assembly or of assemblies within a city or location.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G1909 and G4649 (in the sense of G1983)]
KJV: bishop, overseer
Root(s): G1909, G4649

an overseer is a bishop, just as the KJV can translate it, a "co-superintendents, as said, "which feed the flock of God", which is nothing but a PASTOR, as we say in the western world. so yes, a female can be a Pastor/Bishop/Overseer in the Body of Christ, that oversee the flock of God, by feeding it with KNOWLEDGE, and UN DERSTANDING.

101G.

 

[101G]

As Christ submits to the Father

he is the Father Diversified in Flesh..... did you not read? Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

question time, "is 101G's ..... "OWN ARM civic arm?". no, of course not, 101G's Own Arm is 101G's. and if you want to clearly understand God's own ARM as to who he is..... Just read Isaiah chapter 53.

101G.

 

[Johann]

100% correct, Good read. agent "J" you're re-hired........ (smile).....

101G

Rehired? Matters little to me if I win your approval or not @101G--as I peruse the topics there are many who don't "agree" with each other-


2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

The pulpit is for the man-pastor-not for a woman.

Shalom.
J.

 

[101G]

So then I think you need to explain 1 Tim 3:2 that those in authority or Pastors need to, be the husband of one wife"
Why didn't it just say then they need to be blameless, the vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; It seems to me if all were potentially called into the leaders with authority he for sure would NOT have said, "the husband of one wife".

(smile), LOL, let's clear up this Matter once and for all. this qualification is for a Man who is Male, and Married who has children. the KEYWORD here is "DESIRE". let's see it. 1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work." STOP, we need not to go any further. if a MAN "DESIRE" ... not Called of God, or Given of God, nor Ordained of God. this is only for a Man who ...... "DESIRE" this Office, not qualified to it. who must be married to ONLY ONE WIFE, and if he has Children, they must be in subjection, and he himself is in good standing in the community.

well 101G how do you know this, and how did you come to that conclusion..... glad you asked. the apostle Paul was a Bishop, and he was not Married. and the Lord Jesus is not Married ..... YET, and did he divorce Judah in whom he was married to? and he's a Bishop.... so that male only, and married only, want fly, nor walk, or crawl. ...... and also, barking.... (smile).... YIKES!.

if you have any question, just ask,
101G.

 

[101G]

Rehired? Matters little to me if I win your approval or not @101G--as I peruse the topics there are many who don't "agree" with each other-

need a raise? .... hey just having fun, why so serious, as said I read what you posted.

101G.