Why was it necessary for Christ to hide truth in a parable

[armylngst]

Sorry Armylngst but the one you were speaking too doesn't need to know God inside out to know what belief you're holding to is error. What we do know tells us that.

This is the thing. You have to divorce man from God, and God from man. You have to consider Him on His own based on what He has told us in scripture. He has told us quite a bit. He is the Creator of the universe, and of everything. As such He owns it all, and can do whatever He pleases. He could even decide to send a flood to destroy all humanity. He could even decide to save eight people. Nothing evil in it. So. Why can't God make us robots? I am not asking if He did, I am asking why can't He? Why would that be evil, if we are His property? Why can't He double predestine? Again, I am not saying He did, but where in the rulebook does it say that God can't do as He pleases? You understand that when you are in His house, it is His rules, right? He didn't stumble across Earth and take it over, He created it.

Where do we read it has rusty hinges?

I believe I said that I used rusty hinges due to the nature of what Jesus said, which was strive. This is a door I put in a wall. It isn't the same as what Jesus was talking about, so I added rusty hinges so one truly has to strive. I don't see an issue with it in a theoretical situation.

But you in your post injected you're religious paradigm about who gets save and why? So why can't we ask you the same question you asked us, You talk as though we know God inside and out. Don't you intend on teaching God on how things work?

I did? If you say that the calvinist belief makes people robots, so what? Isn't God free to do that, or did you not consider God's position outside of the sphere of man putting man's standards on Him and judging Him?

Seems you're stacking the deck in your favor.

That would mean I chose the right side...

You have a right to think you know what you know but nobody else does. If we KNOW you're wrong we're in you're not allowed in that territory. So how about we respectfully say to you you're not allowed in your territory. . Please get out of it today!

I think there are people who don't know because they haven't considered it. I was in that same boat. I then read a systematic theology that explained how we learn wrong. The first thing you should learn about is God... on His own. Then learn about man, on his own. Then you consider God's relationship with man through what you learned by studying both sides of the equation on its own merit and standing. What you are left with is a sovereign God who can do whatever He wants, and man who has no say in the matter.

 

[Diserner]

I then read a systematic theology that explained how we learn wrong

Hmmm...... mmm....

 

[Rockson]

You have to consider Him on His own based on what He has told us in scripture.

But isn't that what those that don't agree with you are seeking to tell you? You seem to tell others they don't have a right to be in that territory.

He has told us quite a bit. He is the Creator of the universe, and of everything. As such He owns it all, and can do whatever He pleases.

You're speaking in a hypothetical manner of a God who wouldn't have genuine love qualities. Could such a being therefore be unjust to innocent bystanders I suppose he could but no way could he tell others to be fair and not show unjust favoritism telling them their evil if they do and he does the same thing.

He could even decide to send a flood to destroy all humanity. He could even decide to save eight people. Nothing evil in it.

There comes a time where judgment needs to take place or God would no longer be love. Those people had ample opportunity to repent for many years at God's request.

So. Why can't God make us robots?

It's not that God can't make robots.....creation and the orbits of the planets we could say go with a certain progrram....to make human beings however expressions of life and demand that they adhere to certain principles and refer to them as evil and unjust if they don't but does the same thing....he would NOT be just.

 

[armylngst]

Hmmm...... mmm....

He was right. A lot of people learn about man first, and the God from man's position. This causes us to believe that God is somehow beholden to how we think about things, and we end up judging Him in light of ourselves.

 

[Diserner]

He was right. A lot of people learn about man first, and the God from man's position. This causes us to believe that God is somehow beholden to how we think about things, and we end up judging Him in light of ourselves.

I'm sad you looked to a man made book instead of directly to the Scriptures.

That will always mislead us.

 

[armylngst]

I'm sad you looked to a man made book instead of directly to the Scriptures.

That will always mislead us.

So we should view God through the eyes of man, and thus justify the Arminian argument?

 

[TomL]

You talk as though we know God inside and out. Don't you intend on teaching God on how things work? Consider that there are two sides of a huge wall. On one side is humanity, on the other is God. There is a narrow gate in the wall that only a few will find. The owner of this place within which we live has set a rule. Only those who enter via the narrow gate, which has really rusty hinges, and one must strive, as Jesus said, to open it, can get to the other side of the wall. However, God's only Son came through the gate one day, and sought out those the Father had given to Him. That's it. He isn't there for anyone else. Jesus will not violate the Father's will.

So He tells them about the way through the wall, and doesn't tell everyone else. That is by design. If you know what God's designs are, please tell us. They aren't in the Bible. We just have faint glimpses of what the Father has chosen to reveal to us. This is such that when the disciples asked if Jesus was going to restore the kingdom to Israel at that time in Acts 1, He didn't say yes or no. He said, it's none of their business to know the times or seasons established by the authority of the Father. There are things that we can know, cannot know, and things we aren't to know or seek out. You are entering the "we aren't to seek out" territory.

It makes no sense and God is not irrational

Remember Calvinism, unregenerate is like Lazarus in the grave.,

 

[TomL]

Why did Jesus speak in parables if calvinism is correct ?

We hear this all of the time comparing mans unregenerate state to that of Lazarus in the tomb in reformed/calvinist teachings.

The fact is calvinism's view on dead is wrong otherwise there would be no need to hide it from them. Why does Jesus need to hide truth from a dead corpse ?

See the contradiction ?

See the oxymoron ?

See the calvinists dilemma ?

In the real world we call this process cognitive dissonance, an inconsistent and contradictory belief. So much for total inability and Jesus need for parables. This is just another example of the inconsistent calvinist/reformed position. Why would God have to harden a dead corpse, a dead man having no ability to hear, see or perceive ?

hope this helps !!

Calvinism is replete with such issues

 

[Complete]

I'm ok if this is directed at me as I can take criticism. I like to let the readers know where the doctrines in Christendom came from, who started them in church history. As you can tell I'm not a fan of augustine, calvin, luther whow were students of augustine. I think many false teaching were formed by these men that are accepted in christianity. I say thiss as a former calvinist of 40 years who believed those doctrines.

Forgive me, please. No criticism intended.

 

[Johann]

Mark 4:10–12 (NASB 2020) — 10 As soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve disciples, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but for those who are outside, everything comes in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING THEY MAY SEE, AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR, AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND IT WOULD BE FORGIVEN THEM.”

Why if man is born with no ability to receive biblical truth is Christ hiding the truth in a parable?

How is it that this is to prevent a circumstance in which they might otherwise return (repent) and be forgiven?

"To you has been given" This is perfect passive indicative. We are responsible stewards of the spiritual truths we possess. "To whom much is given, much is required" (cf. Luke 12:48).

This private teaching, which seems to be a regular occurrence, may explain the differences between the Synoptic Gospels and John's Gospel. Jesus speaks very differently in John. It is possible that the parabolic teachings, so common in the Synoptics, was done before the crowds and that the totally different style (i.e., "I Am" statements) were done in private with the disciples and this is what the Gospel of John records.

It is just possible that this whole issue of special instruction for the Twelve may have functioned in the early church as a way of accentuating Apostolic authority. They, and they alone, knew the "true" interpretation of Jesus' words. All revelation comes through these chosen and inspired disciples.

"the mystery" This is the Greek term mustērion. It is used in the NT in several different senses. In this context it is revealed truth which the leaders and the crowd could not comprehend (cf. Isa. 6:9-10).

is = hath been.

know = got to know. Greek. ginosko, . Compare 1Co_2:14. All the texts omit "to know" and read "has been given the secret" of the Kingdom, &c.

mystery = secret. Not before made known: i.e. its proclamation would be received only by a few.

the kingdom of God.

that are without = outside (that circle). Occurs only in Mark. Compare 1Co_5:12, 1Co_5:13. 1Th_4:12. In Matthew "to them", In Luke "to others".

 

[Johann]

The Hidden Teaching of the Parables

Justin Johnson

There are two mistakes people make when trying to understand the parables of Jesus.

1. They think they are intended to make things clearer.
2. They think they were given to reveal truth about the church today.
Parable Riddles

A parable is not a children’s story, illustration, or proverb. A parable is not intended to make things clear, but to teach a hidden meaning through fiction, allegory, or a riddle.

Why would someone speak in parables? This is exactly what the disciples asked Jesus after he told the parable of the sower (Matt 13:10). His response was so that certain people would not see, hear, and know (Matt 13:11-15).

The disciples of Jesus repeatedly asked Jesus to explain the parables after they were spoken. Unto them a clearer explanation was given, but to the others it was not.

The parables of Jesus were hidden teachings to the crowd that he taught clearly at other times to his disciples.

Parables About Christ’s Ministry to Israel

A failure to rightly divide Christ’s ministry to Israel from Christ’s ministry to the church has led to an attempt to force the church of today into the parables where it does not belong.

The parables do not speak of the gospel of the grace of God, the preaching of the cross, or the Body of Christ. These were all kept secret until revealed later to the apostle Paul.

The parables of Jesus spoke of prophetic things, Israel, and mysteries of the kingdom (not the body of Christ). See Rom 15:8.

Hidden Teaching Made Clear

The parables themselves are fictions, allegories, and riddles, but Jesus said their meaning should be clear to the remnant of Israel who believed he was the Messiah.

When the parables are compared to Jesus’ clear teaching to the little flock of Israel, their meanings become much easier and very plain.

There are at least seven different things taught in parables that were hidden to those without ears to hear, but were taught at other times clearly to the disciples.

Many of the greater parables, such as the parable of the sower, the prodigal son, and the marriage feast, contain more than one of these teachings.

1. Christ came to seek and save that which is lost (Mat 18:11; Luke 19:10).

The parable of the lost sheep and the good Samaritan speak about this principle that Israel was lost and Christ came as their shepherd to bring them back into the flock. Jesus told his disciples to go to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 10:6). Israel that did not consider itself lost would not be looking for the Shepherd.

2. Sell all (Matt 13:46; Luke 12:33).

Rich men had a hard time following Jesus, but his disciples knew exactly what he was saying when he instructed them to sell everything they had. A handful of parables speak about this including the parable of the rich man (Luke 12:16-21).

3. First shall be last; last shall be first (Matt 19:30).

Jesus taught this principle repeatedly to his disciples who were constantly vying for a top seat in the kingdom thrones. Jesus taught them to be humble, serve one another, and be last. The parable of the faithful servant and others teach this same thing (Matt 24:45-51).

4. Many are called, but few are chosen (Matt 22:14; Matt 20:16).

Jesus came to cause division in Israel (Luke 12:51). Though the gospel would be preached to all, only some of Israel would enter the kingdom. It is the corruption of this teaching to Israel that has led to the errors of Calvinism. Parables such as the the parable of the net and the gathering in the wheat with the tares speak to this.

5. Ye shall know them by their fruit (Matt 7:16).

When many in Israel thought the kingdom promises would come to them by virtue of their heritage and roots, Jesus taught it will only come to those plants that bear fruit. Jesus used fig trees and the tares to parable this teaching.

6. The Lord leaves and returns (Matt 25:14-20).

According to the prophecy, Israel expected the Messiah to come once and setup his kingdom. A prophetic mystery was that Christ would come, leave, and return to setup his kingdom. His disciples were privy to this information in the parables, but those who did not know Christ did not know.

7.Watch, prepare and be ready; for ye know not when (Matt 24:42).

Jesus taught his disciples many times to prepare themselves for his departure and his return in judgment. They must endure to the end to be saved, and if they fell asleep, were caught unprepared, or fell away then they would lose their seat in the kingdom. The parable of the ten virgins is the classic example of this teaching.

Conclusion

The parables do not speak at all about the dispensation of God’s grace, the mystery of Christ, or the church that is one Body. What they do teach is what the remnant of Israel needed to know to inherit their promised kingdom.

Those that had ears to hear understood.

Today, if we have eyes to see the revelation of the mystery, then we understand that the parables contained teaching to remnant Israel and not to the church today.

 

[TomL]

"To you has been given" This is perfect passive indicative. We are responsible stewards of the spiritual truths we possess. "To whom much is given, much is required" (cf. Luke 12:48).

This private teaching, which seems to be a regular occurrence, may explain the differences between the Synoptic Gospels and John's Gospel. Jesus speaks very differently in John. It is possible that the parabolic teachings, so common in the Synoptics, was done before the crowds and that the totally different style (i.e., "I Am" statements) were done in private with the disciples and this is what the Gospel of John records.

It is just possible that this whole issue of special instruction for the Twelve may have functioned in the early church as a way of accentuating Apostolic authority. They, and they alone, knew the "true" interpretation of Jesus' words. All revelation comes through these chosen and inspired disciples.

"the mystery" This is the Greek term mustērion. It is used in the NT in several different senses. In this context it is revealed truth which the leaders and the crowd could not comprehend (cf. Isa. 6:9-10).

is = hath been.

know = got to know. Greek. ginosko, . Compare 1Co_2:14. All the texts omit "to know" and read "has been given the secret" of the Kingdom, &c.

mystery = secret. Not before made known: i.e. its proclamation would be received only by a few.

the kingdom of God.

that are without = outside (that circle). Occurs only in Mark. Compare 1Co_5:12, 1Co_5:13. 1Th_4:12. In Matthew "to them", In Luke "to others".

But how does that address the issue of the op?

 

[Johann]

But how does that address the issue of the op?

My apologies-just woke up.

The Hidden Teaching of the Parables

Justin Johnson

There are two mistakes people make when trying to understand the parables of Jesus.

1. They think they are intended to make things clearer.
2. They think they were given to reveal truth about the church today.
Parable Riddles

A parable is not a children’s story, illustration, or proverb. A parable is not intended to make things clear, but to teach a hidden meaning through fiction, allegory, or a riddle.

Why would someone speak in parables? This is exactly what the disciples asked Jesus after he told the parable of the sower (Matt 13:10). His response was so that certain people would not see, hear, and know (Matt 13:11-15).

The disciples of Jesus repeatedly asked Jesus to explain the parables after they were spoken. Unto them a clearer explanation was given, but to the others it was not.

The parables of Jesus were hidden teachings to the crowd that he taught clearly at other times to his disciples.

Parables About Christ’s Ministry to Israel

A failure to rightly divide Christ’s ministry to Israel from Christ’s ministry to the church has led to an attempt to force the church of today into the parables where it does not belong.

The parables do not speak of the gospel of the grace of God, the preaching of the cross, or the Body of Christ. These were all kept secret until revealed later to the apostle Paul.

The parables of Jesus spoke of prophetic things, Israel, and mysteries of the kingdom (not the body of Christ). See Rom 15:8.

Hidden Teaching Made Clear

The parables themselves are fictions, allegories, and riddles, but Jesus said their meaning should be clear to the remnant of Israel who believed he was the Messiah.

When the parables are compared to Jesus’ clear teaching to the little flock of Israel, their meanings become much easier and very plain.

There are at least seven different things taught in parables that were hidden to those without ears to hear, but were taught at other times clearly to the disciples.

Many of the greater parables, such as the parable of the sower, the prodigal son, and the marriage feast, contain more than one of these teachings.

1. Christ came to seek and save that which is lost (Mat 18:11; Luke 19:10).

The parable of the lost sheep and the good Samaritan speak about this principle that Israel was lost and Christ came as their shepherd to bring them back into the flock. Jesus told his disciples to go to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 10:6). Israel that did not consider itself lost would not be looking for the Shepherd.

2. Sell all (Matt 13:46; Luke 12:33).

Rich men had a hard time following Jesus, but his disciples knew exactly what he was saying when he instructed them to sell everything they had. A handful of parables speak about this including the parable of the rich man (Luke 12:16-21).

3. First shall be last; last shall be first (Matt 19:30).

Jesus taught this principle repeatedly to his disciples who were constantly vying for a top seat in the kingdom thrones. Jesus taught them to be humble, serve one another, and be last. The parable of the faithful servant and others teach this same thing (Matt 24:45-51).

4. Many are called, but few are chosen (Matt 22:14; Matt 20:16).

Jesus came to cause division in Israel (Luke 12:51). Though the gospel would be preached to all, only some of Israel would enter the kingdom. It is the corruption of this teaching to Israel that has led to the errors of Calvinism. Parables such as the the parable of the net and the gathering in the wheat with the tares speak to this.

5. Ye shall know them by their fruit (Matt 7:16).

When many in Israel thought the kingdom promises would come to them by virtue of their heritage and roots, Jesus taught it will only come to those plants that bear fruit. Jesus used fig trees and the tares to parable this teaching.

6. The Lord leaves and returns (Matt 25:14-20).

According to the prophecy, Israel expected the Messiah to come once and setup his kingdom. A prophetic mystery was that Christ would come, leave, and return to setup his kingdom. His disciples were privy to this information in the parables, but those who did not know Christ did not know.

7.Watch, prepare and be ready; for ye know not when (Matt 24:42).

Jesus taught his disciples many times to prepare themselves for his departure and his return in judgment. They must endure to the end to be saved, and if they fell asleep, were caught unprepared, or fell away then they would lose their seat in the kingdom. The parable of the ten virgins is the classic example of this teaching.

Conclusion

The parables do not speak at all about the dispensation of God’s grace, the mystery of Christ, or the church that is one Body. What they do teach is what the remnant of Israel needed to know to inherit their promised kingdom.

Those that had ears to hear understood.

Today, if we have eyes to see the revelation of the mystery, then we understand that the parables contained teaching to remnant Israel and not to the church today.

Seven Kingdom Parables

Seven Kingdom Parables

bereanbiblesociety.org

Not saying you MUST agree @TomL

 

[Johann]

My apologies-just woke up.

The Hidden Teaching of the Parables

Justin Johnson

There are two mistakes people make when trying to understand the parables of Jesus.

1. They think they are intended to make things clearer.
2. They think they were given to reveal truth about the church today.
Parable Riddles

A parable is not a children’s story, illustration, or proverb. A parable is not intended to make things clear, but to teach a hidden meaning through fiction, allegory, or a riddle.

Why would someone speak in parables? This is exactly what the disciples asked Jesus after he told the parable of the sower (Matt 13:10). His response was so that certain people would not see, hear, and know (Matt 13:11-15).

The disciples of Jesus repeatedly asked Jesus to explain the parables after they were spoken. Unto them a clearer explanation was given, but to the others it was not.

The parables of Jesus were hidden teachings to the crowd that he taught clearly at other times to his disciples.

Parables About Christ’s Ministry to Israel

A failure to rightly divide Christ’s ministry to Israel from Christ’s ministry to the church has led to an attempt to force the church of today into the parables where it does not belong.

The parables do not speak of the gospel of the grace of God, the preaching of the cross, or the Body of Christ. These were all kept secret until revealed later to the apostle Paul.

The parables of Jesus spoke of prophetic things, Israel, and mysteries of the kingdom (not the body of Christ). See Rom 15:8.

Hidden Teaching Made Clear

The parables themselves are fictions, allegories, and riddles, but Jesus said their meaning should be clear to the remnant of Israel who believed he was the Messiah.

When the parables are compared to Jesus’ clear teaching to the little flock of Israel, their meanings become much easier and very plain.

There are at least seven different things taught in parables that were hidden to those without ears to hear, but were taught at other times clearly to the disciples.

Many of the greater parables, such as the parable of the sower, the prodigal son, and the marriage feast, contain more than one of these teachings.

1. Christ came to seek and save that which is lost (Mat 18:11; Luke 19:10).

The parable of the lost sheep and the good Samaritan speak about this principle that Israel was lost and Christ came as their shepherd to bring them back into the flock. Jesus told his disciples to go to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 10:6). Israel that did not consider itself lost would not be looking for the Shepherd.

2. Sell all (Matt 13:46; Luke 12:33).

Rich men had a hard time following Jesus, but his disciples knew exactly what he was saying when he instructed them to sell everything they had. A handful of parables speak about this including the parable of the rich man (Luke 12:16-21).

3. First shall be last; last shall be first (Matt 19:30).

Jesus taught this principle repeatedly to his disciples who were constantly vying for a top seat in the kingdom thrones. Jesus taught them to be humble, serve one another, and be last. The parable of the faithful servant and others teach this same thing (Matt 24:45-51).

4. Many are called, but few are chosen (Matt 22:14; Matt 20:16).

Jesus came to cause division in Israel (Luke 12:51). Though the gospel would be preached to all, only some of Israel would enter the kingdom. It is the corruption of this teaching to Israel that has led to the errors of Calvinism. Parables such as the the parable of the net and the gathering in the wheat with the tares speak to this.

5. Ye shall know them by their fruit (Matt 7:16).

When many in Israel thought the kingdom promises would come to them by virtue of their heritage and roots, Jesus taught it will only come to those plants that bear fruit. Jesus used fig trees and the tares to parable this teaching.

6. The Lord leaves and returns (Matt 25:14-20).

According to the prophecy, Israel expected the Messiah to come once and setup his kingdom. A prophetic mystery was that Christ would come, leave, and return to setup his kingdom. His disciples were privy to this information in the parables, but those who did not know Christ did not know.

7.Watch, prepare and be ready; for ye know not when (Matt 24:42).

Jesus taught his disciples many times to prepare themselves for his departure and his return in judgment. They must endure to the end to be saved, and if they fell asleep, were caught unprepared, or fell away then they would lose their seat in the kingdom. The parable of the ten virgins is the classic example of this teaching.

Conclusion

The parables do not speak at all about the dispensation of God’s grace, the mystery of Christ, or the church that is one Body. What they do teach is what the remnant of Israel needed to know to inherit their promised kingdom.

Those that had ears to hear understood.

Today, if we have eyes to see the revelation of the mystery, then we understand that the parables contained teaching to remnant Israel and not to the church today.

Seven Kingdom Parables

Seven Kingdom Parables

bereanbiblesociety.org

Not saying you MUST agree @TomL

And gone is @TomL -roaming from topic to topic.

 

[Complete]

Hello @Ahar,

Take a look at the following link to a book for free download which you may find useful:-

https://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Parable%20Miracle%20and%20Sign.PDF

 

[civic]

Forgive me, please. No criticism intended.

No worries thanks

 

[TomL]

And gone is @TomL -roaming from topic to topic.

???????

Have you shown any need for God to hide truth from dead corpses?

PS my arguments were not based on a meaning of a parable

 

[civic]

???????

Have you shown any need for God to hide truth from dead corpses?

its only necessary in one systematic

 

[Johann]

???????

Have you shown any need for God to hide truth from dead corpses?

yes-I believe I did-through the Scriptures-

 

[TomL]

yes-I believe I did-through the Scriptures-

I don't see it and my argument is not based in the meaning of a parable