Why The Trinity is Wrong: Language Usage

Interesting book. He mentions the Heretics Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, progressive Christians, Muslims, Unitarians but he misses out on the Primary Source of this Heresy: Judaizers.
Judaism is not heresy. It is the foundation of the Law of Moses minus the Tabernacle and Temple. Although some religious leaders exalted the traditions of the elders above the Scripture (Word of God) it is still the religion of the Jews and a religion that was upheld by Jesus Christ Himself. Judaism is a monotheistic religion that originated in ancient Israel. It is one of the world's oldest religions and is characterized by its adherence to the Torah which included the five books of Moses.

The Law of Moses, or the Torah, is considered the most important religious text in Judaism. It contains laws and teachings that govern every aspect of Jewish life, including morality, ritual, and social behavior. While the Law of Moses is central to Judaism, it's important to note that Jewish interpretation and practice of the Law have evolved over time.

Judaism emphasized the belief in one God, the creator of the universe. Jews believe that God made a covenant with Abraham, the founder of their faith, and his descendants. This covenant established the Jewish people as God's chosen people and outlined the laws and commandments that they must follow. The issue Jesus had with the religious leaders of His day was that Jesus taught the spirit of the Law and the religious leaders - and the common people - only understood the letter of the Law. But upon closer examination Jesus taught some of the teachings held by the Pharisees, such as eternal life, resurrection from the dead, they believed in angels, belief in One God, importance of the Law, and other teachings such as the Sabbath. Judaism is a term that identified this religion is of the Jews, hence, Judaism.
 
Judaism is not heresy. It is the foundation of the Law of Moses minus the Tabernacle and Temple. Although some religious leaders exalted the traditions of the elders above the Scripture (Word of God) it is still the religion of the Jews and a religion that was upheld by Jesus Christ Himself. Judaism is a monotheistic religion that originated in ancient Israel. It is one of the world's oldest religions and is characterized by its adherence to the Torah which included the five books of Moses.

The Law of Moses, or the Torah, is considered the most important religious text in Judaism. It contains laws and teachings that govern every aspect of Jewish life, including morality, ritual, and social behavior. While the Law of Moses is central to Judaism, it's important to note that Jewish interpretation and practice of the Law have evolved over time.

Judaism emphasized the belief in one God, the creator of the universe. Jews believe that God made a covenant with Abraham, the founder of their faith, and his descendants. This covenant established the Jewish people as God's chosen people and outlined the laws and commandments that they must follow. The issue Jesus had with the religious leaders of His day was that Jesus taught the spirit of the Law and the religious leaders - and the common people - only understood the letter of the Law. But upon closer examination Jesus taught some of the teachings held by the Pharisees, such as eternal life, resurrection from the dead, they believed in angels, belief in One God, importance of the Law, and other teachings such as the Sabbath. Judaism is a term that identified this religion is of the Jews, hence, Judaism.
The Judaize term comes straight from your favorite Apostle of all times, Paul, who used the Koine Greek word Ἰουδαΐζειν in Gal 2:14. That's when Paul publicly chastised Peter for compelling Gentile converts live like Jews. Paul would rebuke you and every other Judaizer the same way with your multiple heresies concerning the Diety of Christ.

(Gal 2:14) But when I saw that they are not walking in line according to the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before all, "If you being a Jew live like a Gentile, and not like a Jew, why do you compel the Gentiles to Judaize (Ἰουδαΐζειν)?
 
Was Jesus a Judaizer for denying he's God?

Mark 10
18“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone.
The "why do you call me good" question is to make the young man think. Now since Christ is good (only scum like Judaizers and Muslims would call Jesus bad) then since Jesus is undeniably good and only God is good then Jesus is God.
 
The "why do you call me good" question is to make the young man think. Now since Christ is good (only scum like Judaizers and Muslims would call Jesus bad) then since Jesus is undeniably good and only God is good then Jesus is God.
Refers to absolute goodness. It’s all Bible that only God is good and Jesus denied having the divine attribute of absolute goodness. It means Jesus isn’t God. Trinity is false.
 
Refers to absolute goodness. It’s all Bible that only God is good and Jesus denied having the divine attribute of absolute goodness.
Do you understand the difference between a question and a statement? Jesus did not make a statement, he asked a question with "why do you call me good?" Only those with malice would would transform that question into your statement "Jesus denied having the divine attribute of absolute goodness".
It means Jesus isn’t God. Trinity is false.
Therefore, since Jesus is absolutely good, then he is God.
 
Do you understand the difference between a question and a statement? Jesus did not make a statement, he asked a question with "why do you call me good?" Only those with malice would would transform that question into your statement "Jesus denied having the divine attribute of absolute goodness".
Do you know what a rhetorical question is? A rhetorical question is a statement. Jesus asked a question and provided a statement about what the answer is. Yes, in doing this, Jesus denied having the divine attribute of absolute goodness.
Therefore, since Jesus is absolutely good, then he is God.
No idea what you're talking about. Only those those with malice would twist Jesus' words to mean something they don't. Now don't get the wrong idea. Jesus did not deny that he himself is not God. Jesus is still the good shepherd and others are also good, but not in the same way God is. Jesus said so.
 
Do you know what a rhetorical question is? A rhetorical question is a statement. Jesus asked a question and provided a statement about what the answer is. Yes, in doing this, Jesus denied having the divine attribute of absolute goodness.

No idea what you're talking about. Only those those with malice would twist Jesus' words to mean something they don't. Now don't get the wrong idea. Jesus did not deny that he himself is not God. Jesus is still the good shepherd and others are also good, but not in the same way God is. Jesus said so.
Like I said before, only scum would forward the idea that Jesus is not good in every sense of the word "good". Carry on with your scum level belief system of whatever it is.
 
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Then by your own admission you have, in effect, called Jesus scum.
Really??? Then Isaiah, Peter, Paul, John, Matthew, Thomas, and even Christ are all just as guilty of calling Jesus God.

(Isa 9:6) For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

(2 Pet 1:1) Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

(Titus 2:13) waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

(Rom 9:5) To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

(John 8:58) Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

(Rev 1:8) I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(1 Tim 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory.

(Matt 1:23) "Behold, the virgin shall conceive in her womb, and will bear a son. And they will call His name Emmanuel," which being interpreted is, God with us.

(John 20:28-29) And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God! Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me you have believed. Blessed are they who have not seen and have believed.

Conclusion: Your Judaizing aspirations have just been nailed to the Cross.
 
Do you understand the difference between a question and a statement? Jesus did not make a statement, he asked a question with "why do you call me good?" Only those with malice would would transform that question into your statement "Jesus denied having the divine attribute of absolute goodness".

Therefore, since Jesus is absolutely good, then he is God.
Yes he equivocates lol
 
Really??? Then Isaiah, Peter, Paul, John, Matthew, Thomas, and even Christ are all just as guilty of calling Jesus God.
Arguably, none of them called Jesus God.

(Isa 9:6) For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
This translation translates "mighty God" as gib·bō·wr ’êl, but the plural form of these words are ḡib·bō·w·rîm ’ê·lê In Ezekiel 32:21 and no one translates it them "mighty Gods." This is evidence you're using a dogmatic translation. The context also calls him the "everlasting Father" and Jesus isn't the everlasting Father in Trinitarianism. On top of that Isaiah said he would be called those things and then no one ever called him those things in Scripture.

You have options here. This is a bad translation, this isn't about Jesus, or Trinitarianism is false.
 
Arguably, none of them called Jesus God.


This translation translates "mighty God" as gib·bō·wr ’êl, but the plural form of these words are ḡib·bō·w·rîm ’ê·lê In Ezekiel 32:21 and no one translates it them "mighty Gods." This is evidence you're using a dogmatic translation. The context also calls him the "everlasting Father" and Jesus isn't the everlasting Father in Trinitarianism. On top of that Isaiah said he would be called those things and then no one ever called him those things in Scripture.

You have options here. This is a bad translation, this isn't about Jesus, or Trinitarianism is false.
Jesus does get called everlasting Father.

He is distinct from the Father but not a separate being.

God is the one being... expressed in three persona
 
(2 Pet 1:1) Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ
Grammatically and based on the context, God and Savior Jesus are not the same person. For example, look at the next verse where they clearly are not the same person.

2 Peter 1
2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

note: to standardize, I will typically use the KJV since most people are familiar with it and comfortable with it.
(Titus 2:13) waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
KJV say the Great God and our savior Jesus aren't the same person.

Titus 2
13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(Rom 9:5) To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Not in the KJV and some other versions. I also might add, some Trinitarian commentaries don't agree with your assessment.

Romans 9
5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
(John 8:58) Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!
No mention of Jesus being God there. In the immediate context, Jesus said he is a man.

John 8
40But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.


(Rev 1:8) I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
This isn't Jesus talking. Him "which is, and which was, and which is to come"in Rev. 1:8 is only mentioned in Revelation 1:4 in distinction from Jesus in Rev. 1:5. I also might add, most modern Bible do not make the words of Revelation 1:8 red letters. Therefore Jesus isn't the Almighty in Revelation 1:8.

Here is more of the context for your benefit.

Revelation 1
4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 John 1:1-2 says the Word is an it, a thing essentially, that was revealed by or manifested in Jesus. A that, which, and it is a thing, not a person.

1 John 1
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
(1 Tim 3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory.
This verse was proven to be a later addition or alteration to the manuscript. No modern Bibles say God was manifested in the flesh. It isn't an actual argument very many Trinitarian commentators support either.
(Matt 1:23) "Behold, the virgin shall conceive in her womb, and will bear a son. And they will call His name Emmanuel," which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah 7:14-15 says Immanuel needed "know to refuse the evil, and choose the good." This underscores the fact Immanuel didn't inherently know the different between good and evil like a normal human. God on the other hand already knows these things.
(John 20:28-29) And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God! Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me you have believed. Blessed are they who have not seen and have believed.
Technically, Thomas didn't say "you" are God and even if that is what Thomas meant, he isn't saying that Jesus is God in the same sense as the Father is. Jesus taught in John 10:34-36 that they are elohim. They are all little gods, even Thomas.
Conclusion: Your Judaizing aspirations have just been nailed to the Cross.
Conclusion: you are promoting idolatry by saying Jesus is God.
 
Jesus does get called everlasting Father.

He is distinct from the Father but not a separate being.

God is the one being... expressed in three persona
One of the basic tenets of Trinitarianism is that the Son is not the Father. In other words, Jesus is not the Father. Isaiah 9:6 in many versions does say he will be called the everlasting Father. So I believe most orthodox Trinitarians will disagree with you.

Anyway, where was Jesus called the everlasting Father in Scripture?
 
Arguably, none of them called Jesus God.
Really??? So I'm supposed to believe you and not the word of God? You might have gullible people around your circles but not around here.
This translation translates "mighty God" as gib·bō·wr ’êl, but the plural form of these words are ḡib·bō·w·rîm ’ê·lê In Ezekiel 32:21 and no one translates it them "mighty Gods." This is evidence you're using a dogmatic translation. The context also calls him the "everlasting Father" and Jesus isn't the everlasting Father in Trinitarianism. On top of that Isaiah said he would be called those things and then no one ever called him those things in Scripture.

You have options here. This is a bad translation, this isn't about Jesus, or Trinitarianism is false.
So now you want us to believe that it's a "bad translation" because it doesn't conform to your Judaizing beliefs. Sorry, I wasn't born yesterday.
 
Really??? So I'm supposed to believe you and not the word of God? You might have gullible people around your circles but not around here.

So now you want us to believe that it's a "bad translation" because it doesn't conform to your Judaizing beliefs. Sorry, I wasn't born yesterday.
I would advise you to at least read the context and study more. I presented a good argument against your translation. I see you have opted to cede ground and instead resort to ad hominem. I'll take the W then.
 
One of the basic tenets of Trinitarianism is that the Son is not the Father. In other words, Jesus is not the Father. Isaiah 9:6 in many versions does say he will be called the everlasting Father. So I believe most orthodox Trinitarians will disagree with you.

Anyway, where was Jesus called the everlasting Father in Scripture?

Jesus is not the Father almost like the mind is not the body for a person.

But they are both in the one being.

I'm not that orthodox with the Trinity in that I believe the lines of separation are dotted rather than thick lines of one not being the other. There is distinction..but the relation between the three expressions is not separation.

Jesus is called the everlasting Father in the scripture you deny with Him being called wonderful counselor. The KJV calls Him this too.
 
I would advise you to at least read the context and study more. I presented a good argument against your translation. I see you have opted to cede ground and instead resort to ad hominem. I'll take the W then.
I took issue with your immediate decree that "none of them called Jesus God" and also your "bad translation" pontification. If that's "ad hominem" to you then you're the one ceding ground.

I'll be replying to comment 233 shortly.
 
Jesus is not the Father almost like the mind is not the body for a person.

But they are both in the one being.

I'm not that orthodox with the Trinity in that I believe the lines of separation are dotted rather than thick lines of one not being the other. There is distinction..but the relation between the three expressions is not separation.

Jesus is called the everlasting Father in the scripture you deny with Him being called wonderful counselor. The KJV calls Him this too.
Then he needs to be actually called "mighty God" and "everlasting Father" like Isaiah said. Since he wasn't called those things, I have no choice but to stick to my original point that it's a bad translation.
 
I took issue with your immediate decree that "none of them called Jesus God" and also your "bad translation" pontification. If that's "ad hominem" to you then you're the one ceding ground.
It's a bad translation and I provided good points about why that is so. You allegeding my beliefs are "Judaizing" infers that I am a Judaizer. That's an ad hominem. You should tone that down so there is an environment of respect when we talk to each other. You have given me nothing else to reply to except your ad hominem. That's why we are talking about this now.
 
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