Why "evil"?

[praise_yeshua]

Mankind struggles with the idea of "Evil" in this life. For many of us, the very existence of evil seems to disproves any sense of Divinity within society. The topic of "Evil" is complicated by our very human experience. Add the very fact that good often causes suffering and you find the very reason many people abandon any sense of faith in Divinity altogether.

Also, it is my belief that most Christians have no idea how to deal with the subject at all. I'll give a short example, I remember many years ago when Bart Ehrman was rather popular as the relatively "new Atheist" on the block. UNC has long been a favorite college of mine. "From afar", I've wanted to actually try to help Ehrman. I'm sympathetic to his issue. Daniel Wallace has engaged with Ehrman throughout their lives. I remember reading of Wallace also struggled with the concept of "Evil" in his own life.

All men ultimately face such questions. Whether in thought or words to the contrary. The very idea of Evil is contrary what we expect from our existence.

I must say/admit, that the traditional "Christian answers" concerning evil are very poorly presented. Thusly, poorly understood. There are answers to this "dilemma" and I would like to deal with this subject among you.

I'll state unequivocally, there is no answer to be found in "Total Depravity".

I believe we must start with the very definition of "Evil". People see "evil" differently. Some call evil... good and good evil.

So what is evil?

I'll start. Evil is sin and sin can be summarized at the "top level" by.....

Rom 14:23b whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Please share you definition of evil.

 

[Fred]

Anything that is contrary to what God commands.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Anything that is contrary to what God commands.

That can certainly be seen as part of the "equation". This reminds me of how David acted contrary to God's command and was blameless.

Commands come forth from reason. There are reasons that God says not to do certain things or even commands to do certain things.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Commands must be understand as to why they are given and the context of their operation. For example, such can never understood solely by being referenced as absolutes in the 10 commandments. Such laws are just not enough to know God solely "as written".

 

[Studyman]

That can certainly be seen as part of the "equation". This reminds me of how David acted contrary to God's command and was blameless.
Commands come forth from reason. There are reasons that God says not to do certain things or even commands to do certain things.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

David received permission from the Priest God placed in charge of the Temple concerning the Showbread. That was the point, wasn't it? I mean, David didn't break into the temple and steal the Showbread. There were conditions placed on David by the Priest that he and the others with him met. Why did David go the Priest of God for help? It seems this is an important part of the admonition we are to garner from this story.

Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Again, the Priests of God always had duties to perform that were forbidden for the common man to perform. Even to this day, our High Priest is in a place no man has ever seen nor can see, advocating between us and His God that HE serves.

Commands must be understand as to why they are given and the context of their operation. For example, such can never understood solely by being referenced as absolutes in the 10 commandments. Such laws are just not enough to know God solely "as written".

Yes, as it is written:

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This Law has meaning for all of us that has nothing to do with an Oxen, or grain. It was written for our admonition to this very day. It is a great example of what you are saying.

 

[praise_yeshua]

David received permission from the Priest God placed in charge of the Temple concerning the Showbread. That was the point, wasn't it? I mean, David didn't break into the temple and steal the Showbread. There were conditions placed on David by the Priest that he and the others with him met. Why did David go the Priest of God for help? It seems this is an important part of the admonition we are to garner from this story.

Sure. Jesus judged His disciples blameless for breaking the law. Jesus is the judge. All that and you didn't mention Jesus at all. It shows your lack of concern for Jesus.

Again, the Priests of God always had duties to perform that were forbidden for the common man to perform. Even to this day, our High Priest is in a place no man has ever seen nor can see, advocating between us and His God that HE serves.

Judges are ABOVE the demands of the law. They have the discretion to let anyone go free for any reason whatsoever. Ever heard of a PARDON?

Who is due any and all praise? I hope you don't think it is you.

Yes, as it is written:

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

This Law has meaning for all of us that has nothing to do with an Oxen, or grain. It was written for our admonition to this very day. It is a great example of what you are saying.

Sure does have meaning. It condemns YOU. Is doesn't establish your approval. You don't need a judge unless you're a break of the law. What will the Jesus Christ the Judge of all men do for you?

Why will you even be judged if you're so wonderfully able to accomplish everything you claim you can?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Mankind struggles with the idea of "Evil" in this life. For many of us, the very existence of evil seems to disproves any sense of Divinity within society. The topic of "Evil" is complicated by our very human experience. Add the very fact that good often causes suffering and you find the very reason many people abandon any sense of faith in Divinity altogether.

Also, it is my belief that most Christians have no idea how to deal with the subject at all. I'll give a short example, I remember many years ago when Bart Ehrman was rather popular as the relatively "new Atheist" on the block. UNC has long been a favorite college of mine. "From afar", I've wanted to actually try to help Ehrman. I'm sympathetic to his issue. Daniel Wallace has engaged with Ehrman throughout their lives. I remember reading of Wallace also struggled with the concept of "Evil" in his own life.

All men ultimately face such questions. Whether in thought or words to the contrary. The very idea of Evil is contrary what we expect from our existence.

I must say/admit, that the traditional "Christian answers" concerning evil are very poorly presented. Thusly, poorly understood. There are answers to this "dilemma" and I would like to deal with this subject among you.

I'll state unequivocally, there is no answer to be found in "Total Depravity".

I believe we must start with the very definition of "Evil". People see "evil" differently. Some call evil... good and good evil.

So what is evil?

I'll start. Evil is sin and sin can be summarized at the "top level" by.....

Rom 14:23b whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Please share you definition of evil.

God created evil.

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else,
There is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:5–7.

Everything in creation is the result of God. Everything. If it exists, it exists as a result of God creating it, whatever it is because God is the Author of creation. He is the Creator, right? Evil did not come from anyone but God. We can't place the blame on man or woman. How a person receives this truth is directly tied to their understanding of God as He is revealed in Scripture. If God is Holy and Righteous, then all He does is Holy and Righteous. Just as sin comes from sinner, so too, does holy come from holiness. This is described in contrast in 1 Corinthians 15.

In what way was evil created by God? The simple answer is when He created the universe which time and space came into existence. And if God did not create man, then the universe would exist alone as evil. But God did create man, and man was evil just the same. To understand this one must first understand what is revealed in Scripture about God. And once the biblical understanding of God is ascertained, then the rest is understood in contrast to God. Always in contrast to God. This is because God is the standard by which everything and everyone is judge against.

Isaiah reveals many things about God and God's salvation of man, the redeeming of both the universe and man is part of the program and plan of God. But that is the concluding aspect of the reason and purpose of creating anything at all. The Hebrew Scripture reveals God is Sovereign over creation and man. God knows the end from the beginning because He's ordained the end. He planned the end. And what was necessary for Him to do to get there to that point in which the result of creating man is simply to bring man back into Trinity from whence He was first contemplated. Yes, contemplated. The idea of creating man had to begin in His Mind and in Himself.

God is Self-existing. He doesn't need anything because He is everything. It is only God and God in Trinity. It is only God and God alone and God Self-exists. Nothing can contain Him, and nothing exists on its own to contain Him. There is only God. From Isaiah we are told three things about God.

#1. There is only One God.
#2. There is None like Him.
#3. He gives His glory to No One.

Once you grasp these three truths then the next easy step is to understand the contrast between God and creation, and more specifically, between God and man. So, do you agree with these three things about God revealed by Isaiah in the Hebrew Scripture? And if you fully understand these three things, then understanding evil becomes easier. Now you can tell me "What is evil."
Can you, do it?

 

[Studyman]

Sure. Jesus judged His disciples blameless for breaking the law. Jesus is the judge. All that and you didn't mention Jesus at all. It shows your lack of concern for Jesus.

They didn't break God's Law, that's why they were "guiltless". Jesus was their High Priest, they trusted Him, just like David trusted the High Priest God placed over him, just as I trust the same High Priest God placed over me. Can you show me in God's Law where it is unlawful, according to God, to take a walk in fellowship on God's Sabbath and eat a raspberry or ear of corn along the way? Of course you can't. The Jesus "of the bible" told you the Pharisees were teaching for doctrines the commandments of men, and not God. You accuse me of lacking concern for the Jesus "of the bible", and yet it is you who completely ignore, and even teach against His Very Words describing the mainstream preachers of His time, and the religious philosophies they promoted.

Jesus and His Disciples broke the Pharisees commandment, not God's.

Judges are ABOVE the demands of the law. They have the discretion to let anyone go free for any reason whatsoever. Ever heard of a PARDON?

This is true but is irrelevant to the story you referenced. Who "pardons" the Judge? Who directs the Judge? The Bible teaches that the Head of my Judge Jesus, is God His Father. You imply in your preaching that Jesus rejected His Father's Law here and promoted the same disobedience to God onto His Disciples.

That isn't what the Jesus of the Bible is promoting in this story.

Who is due any and all praise? I hope you don't think it is you.

I seek only, "by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality", His Praise. I know praising Him with just my lips is to garner the praise of other men, not God. I know receiving your praise is like unto a filthy rag.

Sure does have meaning. It condemns YOU.

This is truly what you and Kenneth Copeland, and "Many" others who have "transformed themselves" into Apostles of Christ teach. But when I read what is actually written, this teaching is exposed as from man and not from God. You preach this was written "to condemn me".

Paul teaches, " this is written: that he that ploweth should plow "in hope"; and that he that thresheth in hope should be "partaker of his hope".

Perhaps you might consider just a little self-humility and consider what is actually written in Scriptures. So that you and Paul might become joined together on the same page.

Is doesn't establish your approval. You don't need a judge unless you're a break of the law. What will the Jesus Christ the Judge of all men do for you?

If I reject His Sayings, and live by the Philosophies of this world's religious sects, HE says He doesn't know me. I don't suppose HE will do much for those who were not given to Him by His Father. At least that's what the Bible teaches.

Why will you even be judged if you're so wonderfully able to accomplish everything you claim you can?

Because of what resides in your heart, you cannot see what is and has been right in front of your face. I do not have Faith in my instruction, rather, I have Faith in that what Jesus instructs, I am able to accomplish. Even as Peter was able to walk on water, because he too, believed he could accomplish what Jesus instructed. It's only by listening to the "other voice" in the garden, as Peter did, that he was convinced he couldn't accomplish what was instructed of Him by the Lord's Christ.

I know you tell me, "you can't do this", and "you don't do that", and I know Jesus said these offences would come. And if I paid attention to you, as you demand, I too, could come to believe I cannot finish the race that is brought before me, or accomplish the instructs given me by my Lord and Savior. But I am 30 years on this journey and nearing the end. I will not listen to you, and ignore what God, through His Son, has done for me. And how because of them, I am a better man, a better husband, a better father, a better grandfather. Not because of my instructions, but Christ's instruction in me.

Am I perfect? Goodness no. But that is the goal because that is what Jesus commanded. And I believe in Him in that through belief in His instruction I am able to accomplish what HE has set before me, even if you and "many" who come in His Name, don't.

And by reason of use, I have found that the Way HE promotes, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" is profitable for those who are exercised by it.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible".

 

[praise_yeshua]

They didn't break God's Law, that's why they were "guiltless".

Sure they did. Jesus used the words "not lawful". Priests alone. Jesus judged them blameless. You would have condemned them.