Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
No. It is not "quite different".
Docetism developed within the ideological framework of Gnosticism.
There were many types of Gnostics. Docetists were one of them.
A Question concerning 2 John 1:7
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No. It is not "quite different".
Docetism developed within the ideological framework of Gnosticism.
There were many types of Gnostics. Docetists were one of them.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Wrong.
As a follower of the Baha'i religion, you know nothing of the Doctrines of Christ.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
With all due respect, I know atheists who know much more than you about the doctrines of Christ.
The doctrine of Christ is to love others, as the Samaritan loved the wounded man.
Love transcends any notion of "racial impurity".
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Don’t just say it.
Prove it with Scripture.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Now, a lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?”
He answered, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind’[a] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”
He said to him, “You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live.”
But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
Jesus answered, “A man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing and wounded him and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a priest came down that way. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 So likewise a Levite, when he came to that place, looked at him and passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion on him, and went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine. Then he set him on his own donkey and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 The next day when he departed, he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper and said to him, ‘Take care of him. I will repay you whatever else you spend when I return.’
“Now which of these three do you think was a neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
He said, “The one who showed mercy on him.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
(Luke 10:25-37)
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Dear Readers
What do we learn from the story of the good Samaritan?
1. Jesus believed that eternal life was based on love to God and love to our neighbor
2. Jesus believed that the concept "our neighbor" transcends preconceptions of ethnical or racial impurity.
3. Jesus asks us not just to assent intellectually to this fact, but to make it part of our ACTIONS. ("Go and do likewise").
What do we learn from the story of the good Samaritan?
1. Jesus believed that eternal life was based on love to God and love to our neighbor
2. Jesus believed that the concept "our neighbor" transcends preconceptions of ethnical or racial impurity.
3. Jesus asks us not just to assent intellectually to this fact, but to make it part of our ACTIONS. ("Go and do likewise").
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Now you're guessing.
The honest approach is to simply say "I don't know" and then I will show you what the Doctrines of Christ means.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
No, sir.
The lawyer asked the most important question any man could ask to Jesus.
Jesus answered with the most important answer anyone cohld hear from Him.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Here is the "most important question" any man can ask Jesus:
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Jesus directs the man to the Law of Moses. One Jew to another Jew.
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
The man replies:
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Upon hearing this Jesus instructs the man to obey the Law of Moses:
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luke 10:25–28.
Jesus equates obedience to the Law of Moses with salvation or eternal life.
But since it is only the Hebrew people who were given the Law of Moses then only the Hebrews were directed and instructed to obey the Law of Moses to INHERIT eternal life.
Cool, huh.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
That equates to declaring Chinese sinless.
Since they have not been requested by Moses Law to love their neighbors, they can be as cruel to others as they wanted to be.
That also equates to declaring all people before Moses sinless.
Since Cain had not been requested by Moses Law to love Abel, Cain could be as cruel with Abel as he wanted to be.
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Johann
Well-known member
Docetic Gnosticism – Denial of Jesus’ Humanity
Belief Structure: Docetism, from the Greek word dokein (meaning “to appear” or “to seem”), taught that Jesus only appeared to be human. In Docetic thought, Jesus’ physical body and suffering were considered an illusion because, in their view, the true divine nature could not be associated with something as “corrupt” as flesh.
Reasoning: Docetics viewed the material world as inherently evil, while the spiritual realm was good. To them, God (pure spirit) could not become truly incarnate in human flesh (material).
Johannine Response: John emphasizes that “the Word became flesh” (sarx egeneto) in John 1:14, directly opposing the idea that Jesus only seemed human. In 1 John 4:2–3, he insists that confessing “Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh” is essential, indicating a real, historical incarnation. This clear statement affirms Jesus’ true humanity and rejects Docetic notions of a merely apparent human form.
2. Cerinthian Gnosticism – Denial of the Cross and Separation of Jesus and the Christ
Belief Structure: Cerinthian Gnosticism, attributed to the Gnostic teacher Cerinthus, taught that “Jesus” and “Christ” were two distinct entities. According to this view, Jesus was a human on whom the divine “Christ spirit” descended at his baptism and departed before his crucifixion. Cerinthians believed that while Jesus was a mere man, the divine “Christ” worked through him but did not suffer or die.
Reasoning: By separating Jesus’ humanity from the divine “Christ spirit,” Cerinthian Gnostics could maintain their belief that the divine cannot suffer or be subject to human limitations. For them, Jesus’ death was merely the death of a man, not an act of divine redemption.
Johannine Response: John’s language in 1 John 4:1–3, particularly the phrase “Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh,” emphasizes the unity of Jesus’ divine and human natures. By affirming that the eternal “Word” (Jesus) “became flesh” (John 1:14), John rejects the division between Jesus and the Christ spirit, insisting instead on the complete and inseparable union of Jesus’ humanity and divinity. John’s warning to “test the spirits” in 1 John 4:1–6 echoes his concern that teachings separating Jesus’ humanity from divinity lead believers astray.
Gnosticism’s Influence and John’s Rejection of Dualistic Beliefs
Both Docetic and Cerinthian Gnosticism derive from a fundamental dualism in Gnostic thought: the opposition between spirit (pure, divine) and matter (corrupt, evil). Gnostics viewed the world as the result of a flawed or lesser divinity, so they struggled with the idea of God fully participating in human reality. The Christian message, however, hinges on the idea that God, in Christ, willingly entered human suffering and death to redeem humanity. John’s assertion of Jesus’ full humanity and divinity confronts these Gnostic ideas directly by affirming that salvation comes through the incarnate, crucified, and resurrected Jesus, who was both fully God and fully human.
In short, John’s writings provide a clear rebuttal to early Gnostic claims by stressing that acknowledging Jesus as having truly “come in the flesh” is essential to the Christian faith. Through this, John affirms that Jesus’ full humanity and divinity are foundational to salvation, not illusions or partial manifestations.
"Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh" These deceivers continue in their false teachings about the person of Christ. This verse repeats the admonition to "test the spirits" of 1Jn_4:1-6, especially as they relate to Jesus' full humanity (cf. Joh_1:14; 1Ti_3:16). Gnosticism affirmed an eternal dualism between "spirit" (God) and "matter" (flesh). To them, Jesus could not be fully God and fully man.
There seems to have been at least two theological streams within early Gnostic thought.
1. denial of Jesus' humanity (Docetic); He appeared to be human, but was a spirit
2. denial that Christ died on the cross; this group (Cerinthian) asserted that the "Christ spirit" came on the man Jesus at his baptism and left Him before He died on the cross
It is possible that the present tense, "coming in the flesh," is John's way of rejecting Cerinthian Gnosticism and 1Jn_4:1-6 is his way of rejecting Docetic Gnosticism.
Utley.
J.
Complete
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Complete
Well-known member
Yes, I sense that, 'brother-in-Christ'.
We are 'Kin', in Him. - Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Johann
Well-known member
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
True. Mao Tse Dung murdered millions of his own countrymen.
There is no difference between the Commands of God and the Laws of God.
The Commands of God are Law, and the Laws of God are His Commands.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
And what divine law given to him he violated?
Well, then the Sumarians had received from God the commandments of not to murder, not to steal, not to lie, etc.
They didn't need the Torah to know that.
On the contrary, the Ten Comandments are an extension of many moral laws already known by many civilizations in the Middle East: laws that God gave to humanity and that serve to hold them accountable for their acts.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The divine law also known as thew Noahic Covenant.
They didn't need the Torah because the Torah was not given to them.
But the laws given to Noah for all humanity is common knowledge. Most every society has some form of story of the flood and with it some aspect of who, what, when, where, why, and how since non-Hebrews are the descendants of Noah's two sons, Ham and Japheth.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
What would be the spiritual situation of a Chinese who abides by that Noahic Covenant?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
There is no spiritual situation. The Spirit was given to Israel, and that gift was given to begin the promise to three thousand Jews on the Jewish Feast of Harvest. Every day Christ added thousands of Jews to His Church daily such as should be saved and those that should be saved and were saved were ALL Jews. One day there were five thousand Jews born again. Gentiles did not celebrate the Feast of Harvest. They were not interested nor were they invited by God.
