TibiasDad
Active Member
Would you remind me why verse 4 proves anything about Jesus being less that God and how exactly we ‘twist’ verse 5?
Doug
Who is the creator
- Thread starter Keiw1
- Start date
Doug
charismaticlady
Active Member
I'm printing off that post of yours regarding Ignatius and Polycop. Where did you find that?
TibiasDad
Active Member
There were links in the posts. But here is is again:
Nine Early Church Fathers Who Taught Jesus Is God
For those who think Emperor Constantine invented the deity of Christ, here are thirty-six quotations from nine different church fathers that predate the Council of Nicea.
Doug
FreeInChrist
Active Member
It is you who twists things.
charismaticlady
Active Member
The Father never called an angel, God. But He did Jesus. That's the point and it is clear as day. God is not created. Angels were.
The Holy Spirit had NOTHING to do with the translation abomination called NWT
The truth is that we are still in the flesh, which still has that sin desire/principle within us, else why would the Holy Spirit ask us to keep on reckoning and crucifying that sinful flesh?
We shall not be rid of our old sinful nature until either we die physically, or else are raptured up into glory
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First born refers to his rank and position as Creator over all of His creation
Those who deny deity of Jesus are in ultimate spiritual blindness
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I am not Greek, I am not misled, I am a child of God and the Holy Spirit leads me everyday of my life in truth.
The Holy Spirit glorified Jesus as the Lord, so no JW can have Him indwelling them
FreeInChrist
Active Member
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
How is it possible that you can screw this up? If he was created then nothing was created until he was created unless maybe you think he was a girl and when it says For in him all things were created: it meanms he birthed them one by one.
Is this what the NWT means ?... 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.
created through him
It sure seems like it
charismaticlady
Active Member
That is not true. When born again we are NOT in the flesh but in the Spirit. Romans 8:9
cc: @FreeInChrist Do you also believe what he said? You gave a "like with hearts" I was surprised. When born again our flesh is crucified and is resurrected. We get crucified once and receive a new nature. We keep ourselves, but do not have to keep on confessing sins unto death that we would NOT be committing. As far as "reckoning" Proverbs 23:7 as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. Do not be swayed by false teachings such as what JF just said.
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
This house of flesh we live in as long as we walk on this earth still tries to trap us into old ways.
Some are able to avoid that but others simply cant or do not want to.
Do I want to sin? Heck no. Do I occasionally sin? Yes. Am I robbing banks, am I killing anyone, am I disrespecting God I pray not but do I still lie... on occasion .Why?... Usually to avoid hurting other people especially old people who the woman may ask if her dress is alright and in reality its dreadful but I say she looks nice.... It is a lie. And God hates all liars. I still ask forgiveness every night when I go to bed. And this house of flesh I live in is a problem from health to all the aches and pains and such that cause those words to pop out... The HS has cleaned up my mouth pretty good but still there are times... and that kind of stuff... including what the offenses to the eye can cause.
So while I have my spiritual rebirth, and vastly imporved... I have not been 100% cleared as being squeeky clean. It is a work in progress. Our Heavenly Father knows that.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Our human desires are not in themselves evil; but the sinful desires of the sinful nature corrupts those natural desires and makes them selfish in the direction of their actions. It always puts “me first” and “what’s best for myself” ahead of what is best for others, including God.
The effects of the sinful nature creates what I like to call ‘ruts’ in our hearts which grow deeper over time, and which make it difficult to get out of.
Growth in Christ “makes the crooked places straight” and fills in those old ruts making “rough places smooth” making it possible to it being unnecessary to follow these old ruts. Thus John wrote, “I write these things so that you will not sin, but, if anyone does sin, we have an advocate” who can “forgive us these sins and cleanse us from all righteousness”, meaning filling in all the old ruts and our tendency to live in them.
Doug
We still have that flesh, sinful deposition , as even apostle paul stated that he had to deal with the flesh, as even when saved he wanted to do the right thing, but thast old flesh kept trying to do its old thing still
We are not delivered once saved from all of the effects of our corrupted flesh nature, but we can exercise authority over it by relying upon the empowering of the Holy Spirit, prayers, bible study etc
TibiasDad
Active Member
But the sinful nature is rendered powerless to control us without our consent. We are no longer slaves to sin that we should obey its desires. (Rom 6:12)
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
If we are now able to not sin, we have been delivered from its necessity to control us.
Delivered is not to say we are incapable of sinning.
Doug
FreeInChrist
Active Member
And that is the key. It no longer can control us without our consent.
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