Who is the creator

[Keiw1]

The only fact is your incomprehensible ability to make no sense! Greek mss do not come “from” anything, much less from Catholic translating!

Greek mss are the things that need translated, they don’t come from translating!


Doug

All known Greek works are from the 4th century translation=Catholicism translating--Very few minor fragments of ot exist that are older.

 

[Keiw1]

He doesn’t say that the Father is the only true God; he only says the Father is the only true God, which means the Father “is”, present tense, truly God, not a false god. He doesn’t say that he is the only one who can be truly God!

John would be a polytheist if he means that Jesus is “a god” in addition to the Father being the true God. Was John a polytheist?

Doug

You have lost sir. As 99.9% have according to Jesus( Luke 17:26)

 

[Keiw1]

k and @TibiasDad I like to see if perhaps church fathers going back as far as possible quote the verses you are debating. Irenaeus was born in 130 AD and would have still had access to the original letters. This is before the Catholic Church was created by man in the 4th century. The Desposyni still headed the Church (relatives of Jesus). In book one of the Anti-Nicene Fathers says on page 526,2 regarding John 1 in complete context. K, there is no "a"

2. For the Father bears the creation and His own Word simultaneously, and the Word borne by the Father grants the Spirit to all as the Father wills. To some He gives after the manner of creation what is made; but to others [He gives] after the manner of adoption, that is, what is from God, namely generation. And thus one God the Father is declared, who is above all, and through all, and in all. The Father is indeed above all, and He is the Head of Christ; but the Word is through all things, and is Himself the Head of the Church; while the Spirit is in us all, and He is the living water, which the Lord grants to those who rightly believe in Him, and love Him, and who know that "there is one Father, who is above all, and through all, and in us all." And to these things does John also, the disciple of the Lord, bear witness, when he speaks thus in the Gospel: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. This was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made." And then he said of the Word Himself: "He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world know Him not. To His own things He came, and His own people received Him not. However, as many as did receive Him, to these gave He power to become the sons of God, to those that believe in His name," And again, showing the dispensation with regard to His human nature, John said: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us," And in continuation he says, "And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the Only-begotten by the Father, full of grace and truth." He thus plainly points out to those willing to hear, that is, to those having ears, that there is one God, the Father over all, and one Word of God, who is through all, by whom all things have been made; and that this world belongs to Him, and was made by Him, according to the Father's will, and not by angels; nor by apostasy, defect, and ignorance; nor by any power of Prunicus, whom certain of them also call "the Mother;" nor by any other maker of the world ignorant of the Father. For the Creator of the world is truly the Word of God; and this is our Lord, who in the last times was made man, existing in this world, and who in an invisible manner contains all things created, and is inherent in the entire creation, since the Word of God governs and arranges all things; and therefore He cam to His own in a visible manner, and was made flesh, and hung upon the tree, that He might sum up all things in Himself. "And His own peculiar people did not receive Him," as Moses declared this very thing among the people: "And thy life shall be hanging before thine eyes, and thou wilt not believe thy life." (Deut. 28:66) Those therefore who did not receive Him did not receive life. "But to as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God." For it is He who has power from the Father over all things, since He is the Word of God, and very man, communicating with invisible beings after the manner of the intellect, and appointing a law observable to the outward senses, that all things should continue each in its own order; and He reigns manifestly o er things visible and pertaining to men; and brings in just judgment and worthy upon all; as David also, clearly pointing to this, says, "Our God shall openly come, and will not keep silence." Then he shows also the judgment which is brought in by Him, saying, "A fire shall burn in His sight, and a strong tempest shall rage round about Him. He shall call upon the heaven from above, and the earth, to judge His people."

There is no a or an written in the Greek language, one had to know where they belong, Same as no commas. Like the misplaced comma concerning the thief who died by Jesus side:
Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise=error
Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise=correct
Proof Jesus was in Hades( grave) for 3 days, So blind guides teach paradise is in the grave because of that comma error translated in. Paradise is the NEW Earth( Rev 21:1)--The resurrection occurs at Rev 20--it has not occurred yet.
Only begotten= created direct-first and last= The firstborn of all creation( Colossians 1:15-16) He is Gods image, an image is never the real thing.

 

[charismaticlady]

There is no a or an written in the Greek language, one had to know where they belong, Same as no commas. Like the misplaced comma concerning the thief who died by Jesus side:
Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise=error
Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise=correct
Proof Jesus was in Hades( grave) for 3 days, So blind guides teach paradise is in the grave because of that comma error translated in. Paradise is the NEW Earth( Rev 21:1)--The resurrection occurs at Rev 20--it has not occurred yet.
Only begotten= created direct-first and last= The firstborn of all creation( Colossians 1:15-16) He is Gods image, an image is never the real thing.

So you don't really care about truth. Good to know. Those early disciples knew and believed that Jesus is God and that is what they said, not Jesus is a god like the founders of your cult did and you swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

 

[TibiasDad]

There is no a or an written in the Greek language,

Yes there is! Any noun without an article has an indefinite quality, thus is one of multiple examples of that thing. The Article indicates a specific one in contrast to all other examples. Thus, a theos without the article means a god, whereas theos with the article (ho/the) means a specific, or supreme example of God.

Same as no commas

Actually there was no punctuation at all, nor were there any spaces between the letters. Itwouldbelikewritingthissentenceingreekin theoriginalmanuscripts

Now, we can make sense of this because we understand English, but the insertion of punctuation and spaces between the letters makes it easier to express what we want to say.

Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise=error
Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise=correct
Proof Jesus was in Hades( grave) for 3 days, So blind guides teach paradise is in the grave because of that comma error translated in.

1) Nobody would say “I tell you today”, because it is obvious that the day that you say something is “today”.

2) Jesus’s body was in the grave, not Jesus himself. 1Pet 3:18 says :

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—…”

So Jesus’s spiritual being was back with God, for he said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit”!

3) Nobody that I have ever heard of or read or listened to has ever said that paradise is in the grave. That is a ludicrous statement without any evidence (other than your biased sources) to support it.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

So you don't really care about truth. Good to know. Those early disciples knew and believed that Jesus is God and that is what they said, not Jesus is a god like the founders of your cult did and you swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

They taught, the Father is Jesus' God.( 2Cor 1:3--Col 1:3--Eph 1:3--1Pet 1:3) ALL who know truth knows 100% God does not have a God.
Its 100% fact Catholicism created the trinity at their councils. recorded history-FACT.

 

[Keiw1]

Yes there is! Any noun without an article has an indefinite quality, thus is one of multiple examples of that thing. The Article indicates a specific one in contrast to all other examples. Thus, a theos without the article means a god, whereas theos with the article (ho/the) means a specific, or supreme example of God.

Actually there was no punctuation at all, nor were there any spaces between the letters. Itwouldbelikewritingthissentenceingreekin theoriginalmanuscripts

Now, we can make sense of this because we understand English, but the insertion of punctuation and spaces between the letters makes it easier to express what we want to say.

1) Nobody would say “I tell you today”, because it is obvious that the day that you say something is “today”.

2) Jesus’s body was in the grave, not Jesus himself. 1Pet 3:18 says :

“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—…”

So Jesus’s spiritual being was back with God, for he said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit”!

3) Nobody that I have ever heard of or read or listened to has ever said that paradise is in the grave. That is a ludicrous statement without any evidence (other than your biased sources) to support it.


Doug

Made alive in the spirit on the 3rd day.
Many have told me paradise is in the grave. Certain religions teach it.

Its simple to see who is correct= The blind guides leading hundreds of false religions tell all -they are going to heaven( be saved, get salvation, get grace= a couple billion)--Jesus says--99.9% are being mislead to destruction. Luke 17:26)
All can see who you listen to.

 

[TibiasDad]

Made alive in the spirit on the 3rd day.

That refers to his body; Peter was not talking about Jesus’s body but rather his spiritual being, which preached to the lost souls that had been disobedient in the time of Noah.

Here is the longer context of his words:

15But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Peter says Jesus went and preached to people who had died in the flood when Noah and his family were in the ark.

Again, Jesus said he was committing his spirit, his spirit being, back to his Father, God. It didn’t die, it returned to heaven from which it once came to be incarnated as a man.

Many have told me paradise is in the grave.

Who? Watchtower sources? Cite the references that say this!

Certain religions teach it.

Again, specifically which “religions” teach this, and cite where they do so from their own publications. No Christian authority teaches that the grave is paradise.

You are making a cardinal mistake by not verifying the information you are given through sources outside of those who are telling you these things.

I don’t just accept what I hear each week in church, I dare to discern for myself if something is true or not.


Doug

 

[FreeInChrist]

So you don't really care about truth. Good to know. Those early disciples knew and believed that Jesus is God and that is what they said, not Jesus is a god like the founders of your cult did and you swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

Fact. a god still puts the JW a polytheistic religion. Period That cannot be denied because God , Jehovah is a capitol G yet the Word, in John 1:1 NWT has a capitol W indicating acknowledging he was a being and yet called a god... So that makes 2 separate gods in creation.

NWT JW.org study edition.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

 

[charismaticlady]

They taught, the Father is Jesus' God.( 2Cor 1:3--Col 1:3--Eph 1:3--1Pet 1:3) ALL who know truth knows 100% God does not have a God.
Its 100% fact Catholicism created the trinity at their councils. recorded history-FACT.

Yes, Jesus always pointed to the Father as God. But even the Father called His Son, God in Hebrews 1.

 

[TibiasDad]

They taught, the Father is Jesus' God.( 2Cor 1:3--Col 1:3--Eph 1:3--1Pet 1:3) ALL who know truth knows 100% God does not have a God.
Its 100% fact Catholicism created the trinity at their councils. recorded history-FACT.

Jesus said that he is worthy of the same honor that the Father is worthy of receiving. (John 5:23)

Since God does not share his honor and glory with anyone else (Isa 48:11) either Jesus is wrong that he is worthy, or Jesus is equal in standing with God so that to honor one is to honor the other equally.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

That refers to his body; Peter was not talking about Jesus’s body but rather his spiritual being, which preached to the lost souls that had been disobedient in the time of Noah.

Here is the longer context of his words:

15But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17For it is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Peter says Jesus went and preached to people who had died in the flood when Noah and his family were in the ark.

Again, Jesus said he was committing his spirit, his spirit being, back to his Father, God. It didn’t die, it returned to heaven from which it once came to be incarnated as a man.




Who? Watchtower sources? Cite the references that say this!



Again, specifically which “religions” teach this, and cite where they do so from their own publications. No Christian authority teaches that the grave is paradise.

You are making a cardinal mistake by not verifying the information you are given through sources outside of those who are telling you these things.

I don’t just accept what I hear each week in church, I dare to discern for myself if something is true or not.


Doug

All thought stops on the day of ones death-He was in hades( grave=dead) for 3 days.

 

[Keiw1]

Yes, Jesus always pointed to the Father as God. But even the Father called His Son, God in Hebrews 1.

Impossible--At 1:4-IT is 100% clear. He became better than the angels by God giving him the name Jesus, thus was equal to them prior as Psalm 45:7 shows as well companions = angels--YOUR TRANSLATIONS ARE ALTERED.

 

[Keiw1]

Jesus said that he is worthy of the same honor that the Father is worthy of receiving. (John 5:23)

Since God does not share his honor and glory with anyone else (Isa 48:11) either Jesus is wrong that he is worthy, or Jesus is equal in standing with God so that to honor one is to honor the other equally.


Doug

Keep your darkness please.

 

[TibiasDad]

Keep your darkness please.

Which means you can’t answer the question; I wonder why?

Are you saying Jesus didn’t say that he deserved the same honor as his Father in John 5:23?

Are you saying that Jesus was not worthy of the “praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” that the host of heaven gave both him and his Father in Rev 5?

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

All thought stops on the day of ones death-He was in hades( grave=dead) for 3 days.

Yes, physically, but the real man is the spirit that animates the body. The spirit is conscious and communicative in the afterlife, as shown in the account of the Rich man and Lazarus. (Luke 16) Remember that God is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, and thus, is the God of the Living. Living people have thoughts!

Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

Fact. a god still puts the JW a polytheistic religion. Period That cannot be denied because God , Jehovah is a capitol G yet the Word, in John 1:1 NWT has a capitol W indicating acknowledging he was a being and yet called a god... So that makes 2 separate gods in creation.

NWT JW.org study edition.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Interesting.

 

[dwight92070]

Not a cloud. Do I perceive mocking?

The Spirit lets me physically see whether a sermon is anointed by the Spirit or not.

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 ow we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The Spirit lets me know that you are not anointed by Him, when you teach such error, which contradicts Scripture.

 

[TibiasDad]

Fact. a god still puts the JW a polytheistic religion.

That’s precisely what I said to him! He didn’t listen to me either! You are right, if Jesus is “a god”, then he is a polytheist by definition, believing in two distinct types of God.

Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

Impossible--At 1:4-IT is 100% clear. He became better than the angels by God giving him the name Jesus, thus was equal to them prior as Psalm 45:7 shows as well companions = angels--YOUR TRANSLATIONS ARE ALTERED.

The Son Exalted Above Angels​

Hebrews 1: 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You”?
And again:

“I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son”?

6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”

8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

10 And:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”

13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?