Who is the creator

[TibiasDad]

What do the apostles mean when they say by GRACE are you saved through faith. What does grace mean.

Why would you ask such a simple question? Charis is the Greek word for grace, and in its simplest sense means a gift. Thus it is something that is a) given by someone else, and b) it is not payment as an obligation for something we have done. The giver is not mandated by our actions to act favorably toward us, thus, it is not a matter of merit or deserving. It is solely an act of favor by the givers own desires and will.

Why did God hate the sin of the Nicolaitans?

Little is known about their specific beliefs, but they are linked with the practices of Balaam, which was a polytheistic practice of worshipping other gods along with Yahweh.

But the fact that God hates all sin is sufficient to answer your question, however, the stench of the Nicolations was particularly strong in God’s nostrils for some undefined reason, again probably because they resembled Balaam worship practices.


Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

The Koine Greek language was chosen and used by the Holy Spirit, so to get NT theology must know and use Koine Greek of the Bible

I'm not besmudging Greek. But it doesn't help you understand the New Testament if you are reading with a western mindset. We absolutely need to know the eastern mindset of the apostles to not make gross errors as they did at the beginning of the Reformation!

cc: @TibiasDad

 

[charismaticlady]

Why would you ask such a simple question? Charis is the Greek word for grace, and in its simplest sense means a gift. Thus it is something that is a) given by someone else, and b) it is not payment as an obligation for something we have done. The giver is not mandated by our actions to act favorably toward us, thus, it is not a matter of merit or deserving. It is solely an act of favor by the givers own desires and will.

I didn't ask HOW it was given, but what is it with regards to sin? You are Weslyan so should know this. If it is so simple, why do most Protestants not know? And it doesn't matter how smart you are if you ride a high horse, so knock it off, Matthew 7:19.

Little is known about their specific beliefs, but they are linked with the practices of Balaam, which was a polytheistic practice of worshipping other gods along with Yahweh.

But the fact that God hates all sin is sufficient to answer your question, however, the stench of the Nicolations was particularly strong in God’s nostrils for some undefined reason, again probably because they resembled Balaam worship practices.

Good answer. Some Greek scholars try to pull the name apart and say it means "power over the laity." I'm glad you don't.

The connection between Balaam and the Nicolaitans is sex. The Nicolaitans, a cult headed by Nicolas, an early deacon, according to ancient church history willfully raped each other's wives daily to show the strength of "grace." I think that is probably why Paul wrote, so should we sin to show the power of grace, God forbid.

 

[JesusFan]

I'm not besmudging Greek. But it doesn't help you understand the New Testament if you are reading with a western mindset. We absolutely need to know the eastern mindset of the apostles to not make gross errors as they did at the beginning of the Reformation!

cc: @TibiasDad

Gross errors?

 

[TibiasDad]

I didn't ask HOW it was given, but what is it with regards to sin?

You asked “What does grace mean.” The standard answer is “undeserved favor” but, while true, that is a shallow answer in my opinion.

You are Weslyan so should know this.

Yes I am, and proud to admit it!

If it is so simple, why do most Protestants not know?

I would be surprised if there was anyone in this forum that didn’t know this.

And it doesn't matter how smart you are if you ride a high horse, so knock it off, Matthew 7:19.

You’re the one with supposed higher power to understand the truth or whether one has the anointing of God. In reality, we tend to think that those who agree with us are anointed in their speaking. But it is most evident when we are convicted of God that we are lacking in our own lives concerning the topic of the sermon! You know, recognizing the pole in our eye instead of the speck in another’s!


Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

You asked “What does grace mean.” The standard answer is “undeserved favor” but, while true, that is a shallow answer in my opinion.

I would be surprised if there was anyone in this forum that didn’t know this.

This is because you think grace means "unmerited favor." That again is HOW we receive this gift, but not what it is.


I'll give you a hint. It is the difference in thinking between Weslyan and Calvinism. "Unmerited favor" is Calvinism.

 

[charismaticlady]

How would you know, if you’ve never studied Greek. There is no existing ms that has Yahweh in the NT so you might as well argue that there should be unicorns as well as horses in the NT.

Nobody denies that the NT speaks of Yahweh, they only use the word Lord, kurios, to refer to him-as was traditional at the time to not speak or write “the Name” lest they blaspheme it.

Take your nose out of the Watchtower and the NWT (which had no Greek experts in the translation of it) and learn biblical Greek!

Doug

You’re the one with supposed higher power to understand the truth or whether one has the anointing of God. In reality, we tend to think that those who agree with us are anointed in their speaking. But it is most evident when we are convicted of God that we are lacking in our own lives concerning the topic of the sermon! You know, recognizing the pole in our eye instead of the speck in another’s!

Read these Doug. The pole has already been removed from my eye, and I've thanked them, so that I can see clearly the speak in yours. Matthew 7:19 If you want to be perfect, you would thank me. So you don't care. That's disturbing...

 

[Keiw1]

Through = dia, which identifies the means by which something happens. Yahweh said that he used his own hands to create (Isa 45:12), that means he was personally involved in a direct manner. He also said he did it alone, that is without anyone else being involved. (Isa 44:24)

So given that we have scriptural evidence of three persons at the scene of creation, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they are all worthy of being called Yahweh because all were hands on involved.

The only logical explanation is that they are all united in a corporate singularity, whereby they speak at times as a singular being, while speaking or being spoken of by others at other times as distinct individuals doing the work, such as in John’s prologue in his gospel.

Doug

Jehovah created it all. Jesus built it not created it.

 

[TibiasDad]

This is because you think grace means "unmerited favor." That again is HOW we receive this gift, but not what it is.


I'll give you a hint. It is the difference in thinking between Weslyan and Calvinism. "Unmerited favor" is Calvinism.

Unmerited favor is Christian theology; if you don’t believe that, you’re probably not a Christian.

The difference between Calvinism and non Calvinistic theologies are many, but ‘unmerited favor’ is not one of them! Nobody deserves to be saved!

The difference between Calvinistic theology and Wesleyan thought from a soteriological standpoint is the ULIP of TULIP. (The T we would not define as Calvinist would either, but we would say that man is Totally depraved in the sense that sin has corrupted the whole of man’s being and we are thus incapable of not sinning or to put it another way, every person will eventually sin because of sin’s dominion over our wills.)

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

How would you know, if you’ve never studied Greek. There is no existing ms that has Yahweh in the NT so you might as well argue that there should be unicorns as well as horses in the NT.

Nobody denies that the NT speaks of Yahweh, they only use the word Lord, kurios, to refer to him-as was traditional at the time to not speak or write “the Name” lest they blaspheme it.

Take your nose out of the Watchtower and the NWT (which had no Greek experts in the translation of it) and learn biblical Greek!

Doug

All Greek works now came from Catholicism translating. Only a very few minor fragments of NT older than Catholicism translating remained when the protestants translated.
When one has God-they need not know languages-Proof, Acts 2:1-5--Speaking foreign languages they did not know, via holy spirt.
WICKED by satans will removed Gods name against his will. A huge atrocity against Gods will. None who love him use those altered translations that mislead as the main bible. ALL who love God( Jehovah) support him 100% on that matter as Jesus would. Jesus would choose the NWT 100% of the time.

 

[Keiw1]

First, the Hebrew word "qanah" means "to get" or "acquire". It does not mean "created". Second, in Proverbs 8 wisdom is personified by a woman. It appears that even as godly men are attracted to a godly woman, we are to be attracted to wisdom, as opposed to being attracted to the things of the world, personified by a foolish, sinful woman in Proverbs 9:13-18. I don't believe we are supposed to think that Proverbs 8:1 to Proverbs 9:1-12 is Jesus speaking.

Every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea - fell down and worshiped the One who sits on the throne and the Lamb, which is Jesus. So Jesus Himself is not included in "every created thing". Rather every created thing bowed down before Him. So no, Prov.8:22 does not say that Jesus was created. Rather He was the Creator.

Prov 8:22 on is all about Gods master worker, not wisdom as Prov 8 began with. But Jesus did become wisdom for us.( 1Cor 1:30)

 

[Keiw1]

First, the Hebrew word "qanah" means "to get" or "acquire". It does not mean "created". Second, in Proverbs 8 wisdom is personified by a woman. It appears that even as godly men are attracted to a godly woman, we are to be attracted to wisdom, as opposed to being attracted to the things of the world, personified by a foolish, sinful woman in Proverbs 9:13-18. I don't believe we are supposed to think that Proverbs 8:1 to Proverbs 9:1-12 is Jesus speaking.

Every created thing in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea - fell down and worshiped the One who sits on the throne and the Lamb, which is Jesus. So Jesus Himself is not included in "every created thing". Rather every created thing bowed down before Him. So no, Prov.8:22 does not say that Jesus was created. Rather He was the Creator.

They worshipped the one on the throne. You twist it to give it to the lamb. In the prior verse it shows exactly what God shares with the lamb-worship is not one of them.

 

[TibiasDad]

Jehovah created it all. Jesus built it not created it.

γίνομαι (ginomai) means to bring into being, which means that it didn’t exist before it was created! That’s why we call it Ex-nihilo creation; out of nothing!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

All Greek works now came from Catholicism translating. Only a very few minor fragments of NT older than Catholicism translating remained when the protestants translated.
When one has God-they need not know languages-Proof, Acts 2:1-5--Speaking foreign languages they did not know, via holy spirt.
WICKED by satans will removed Gods name against his will. A huge atrocity against Gods will. None who love him use those altered translations that mislead as the main bible. ALL who love God( Jehovah) support him 100% on that matter as Jesus would. Jesus would choose the NWT 100% of the time.

Ah, we’re back to cult speak rhetoric! When you want to get back to biblical exegesis let me know, I’ll be happy to continue our discussion then.

All who love God love his Word and seek to understand it as much as possible, which includes studying the original languages if we can.

Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

Unmerited favor is Christian theology; if you don’t believe that, you’re probably not a Christian.

The difference between Calvinism and non Calvinistic theologies are many, but ‘unmerited favor’ is not one of them! Nobody deserves to be saved!

The difference between Calvinistic theology and Wesleyan thought from a soteriological standpoint is the ULIP of TULIP. (The T we would not define as Calvinist would either, but we would say that man is Totally depraved in the sense that sin has corrupted the whole of man’s being and we are thus incapable of not sinning or to put it another way, every person will eventually sin because of sin’s dominion over our wills.)

Doug

Yikes! That doesn't sound like Weslyan, nor John Wesley. I must have given him more credit than due. You see, I wasn't raised Methodist, so don't know all the background. But seeing as the later rain didn't fall in his lifetime he wouldn't know by experience, only by his willpower to be holy in his own strength. Jesus gave him credit for that at least, Revelation 3:4. Not "sin boldly" as was in the beginning of the Reformation, not 200 years later but still in the Sardis period, not Philadelphia when the Word was actually kept. To those at the beginning Jesus wrote, "you have a name that you are alive but you are dead." The error seems to have crept into the Wesleyan thought more recently though by your response. Too bad. And seeing as sin gave way to a church split it isn't all on one side, but both, therefore, still Sardis, not Philadelphia.

Again, grace is given to us by unmerited favor, but it is not what grace IS. Only HOW given. This is the third time I've pointed that out, and again, no good fruit in your accusation. What did Jesus favor us WITH? Yes, grace, but what IS its substance? If I just tell you the answer it won't stick, and you probably won't believe me. It has to be given you by the Spirit. Read 1 John 3 over and over until you get it. And don't use any modern translations from the corrupted Alexandrian codices, only KJV or NKJV. The word practice was never there regarding sin. Only with regards to righteousness. And that takes abiding in Jesus which does produce good fruit.

 

[charismaticlady]

All Greek works now came from Catholicism translating. Only a very few minor fragments of NT older than Catholicism translating remained when the protestants translated.
When one has God-they need not know languages-Proof, Acts 2:1-5--Speaking foreign languages they did not know, via holy spirt.
WICKED by satans will removed Gods name against his will. A huge atrocity against Gods will. None who love him use those altered translations that mislead as the main bible. ALL who love God( Jehovah) support him 100% on that matter as Jesus would. Jesus would choose the NWT 100% of the time.

K, the NWT used the corrupted codices that changed the Word of God to their own liking, something JW's do with their revised NWT taking out 10% more words! Seeing as we are to base our life on EVERY word that comes from God, how can you say Jesus would approve?

Also, in John 1:1 the NWT added the word 'a' for "a god." How could that have been in the original when there are no other gods but God. Calling Buddha a god isn't truth. It's fiction.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yikes! That doesn't sound like Weslyan, nor John Wesley.

Then I suggest that your self-admitted lack of knowledge about Wesley is quite accurate. Wesley’s core theme is that a born-again heart is able to choose to not sin, but is still torn between old desires and the new desires of the Spirit within him as a believer. Entire Sanctification cleanses the old desires and purifies the heart’s affections to be totally for God and his will. This enables the heart’s affections to achieve the goal of the greatest commandment, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and your neighbor as yourself.

This is the primary goal and purpose of the believer toward God!

Wesley believed that this could happen within the believer in this life, but perhaps not until just before death. It is received and maintained solely by faith, and that like salvation itself, it could be forfeited by lack of faith and perseverance.


Doug

 

[charismaticlady]

Then I suggest that your self-admitted lack of knowledge about Wesley is quite accurate. Wesley’s core theme is that a born-again heart is able to choose to not sin, but is still torn between old desires and the new desires of the Spirit within him as a believer. Entire Sanctification cleanses the old desires and purifies the heart’s affections to be totally for God and his will. This enables the heart’s affections to achieve the goal of the greatest commandment, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and your neighbor as yourself.

This is the primary goal and purpose of the believer toward God!

Wesley believed that this could happen within the believer in this life, but perhaps not until just before death. It is received and maintained solely by faith, and that like salvation itself, it could be forfeited by lack of faith and perseverance.


Doug

Yes, I see you believe your righteousness is self-propelled and can fail at any moment. I like John Wesley's mother's teachings better. That women knew her Bible!

 

[Keiw1]

γίνομαι (ginomai) means to bring into being, which means that it didn’t exist before it was created! That’s why we call it Ex-nihilo creation; out of nothing!

Doug

Same way Noah brought the ark into existence--Jehovah created the ark. Jehovah was the architect, Jehovah gave Noah exact instructions how to build the ark. Noah didn't create it, Jehovah did. Noah built it.

 

[Keiw1]

Ah, we’re back to cult speak rhetoric! When you want to get back to biblical exegesis let me know, I’ll be happy to continue our discussion then.

All who love God love his Word and seek to understand it as much as possible, which includes studying the original languages if we can.

Doug

Sadly your life being ruled like this-2Cor 4:4-2Cor 11:12-15)--Its 100% fact, Gods name was removed against his will. Twisted men using altered translations twist words to fit their agenda. Its why there are hundreds of different religions claiming to be Christian= a mass of confusion. Jesus is with 1 religion-1Cor 1:10)- The rest of them use altered translations that mislead. God fixed his translation-The New world translation. Men using altered translation are the ones who condemn it.