The choosing is that those who are in Christ would be holy and blameless before God in love
God chose those in Christ to be holy and blameless
What's Wrong with Calvinism?
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God chose those in Christ to be holy and blameless
Agreed. Nothing about would be in Christ. The only one doing the choosing in verse 4 is God.
Newsflash: Unborn beings/unbelievers are not in Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (LEB) — 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.
How can one unborn be a new creation or born again
Romans 6:3–4 (LEB) — 3 Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we may live a new way of life.
being in Christ is a new way of life
Philippians 3:9 (LEB) — 9 and may be found in him, not having my righteousness which is from the law, but which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith,
One in Christ has righteousness and faith
certainly not describing the unborn
Your failure to understand that the passage is addressing those in Christ and what God would do with such leads you reject much scripture.
You fail to see the passage is addressing those who are in Christ
The verse states God chose that they would be holy and blameless before him in love and predestined us to adoption
They (we) and the US would be those in Christ
That is the choice of God.
You just cannot ignore multiple verses that show faith precedes regeneration and life
civic
Active Member
Amen another false claim from the reformed camp
civic
Active Member
Ditto they are all children of wrath as Paul says in Ephesians 2
brightfame52
Active Member
Calvinism is the Gospel, Tulip
It does not say Adam's sin brought condemnation to us - it clearly says that he brought death to us, Rom 5:15 For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, which is also taught in
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all had sinned. ie, were sinners not all received his sin! and IT IS ASSUMED to imply that this means we inherited Adam's sin which caused us to die and NOT that as sinners we were sown into Adam to inherit his death so Christ need die but once for all the sinful elect (all the lost sheep, all the sinful good seed, all the sinful people of the kingdom) and not once for each one of them!
Rather, it is an opposition to the gospel
brightfame52
Active Member
It's the Gospel of God's Grace and folk have been deceived into thinking it is man made
Angelo
Administrator
Romans 5:15 explains that while one person's sin (Adam's) brought condemnation. We are condemned without being reconciled to God.
That's what we Christian do "explain" the Gospel to unbelievers.
We got some explaining to do.
The gospel announces regeneration and salvation to those who believe.
Your theology, on the other hand, is anti-gospel.
civic
Active Member
Polar opposites
A denial of the gospel
civic
Active Member
Yes indeed
Therefore, not a suitable approach to spread the gospel.
I consider the explanation to be wrong and probably blasphemous for the reasons I have explained...starting by accepting that the proper word used in the verse is NOT condemnation!!!
We are NOT condemned in Adam, we die in Adam.
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Angelo
Administrator
Condemned to die' now you getting it.
Yes
Romans 5:12–19 (LEB) — 12 Because of this, just as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death spread to all people because all sinned. 13 For until the law, sin was in the world, but sin is not charged to one’s account when there is no law. 14 But death reigned from Adam until Moses even over those who did not sin in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of the one who is to come. 15 But the gift is not like the trespass, for if by the trespass of the one, the many died, by much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, multiply to the many. 16 And the gift is not as through the one who sinned, for on the one hand, judgment from the one sin led to condemnation, but the gift, from many trespasses, led to justification. 17 For if by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through the one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ. 18 Consequently therefore, as through one trespass came condemnation to all people, so also through one righteous deed came justification of life to all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one, the many will be made righteous.
There are these passages.
Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
2 Chronicles 25:4 (LEB) — 4 But he did not put their children to death, according to what is written in the law, in the scroll of Moses, where Yahweh commanded, saying, “Fathers shall not be put to death on account of the sons, and the sons shall not be put to death on account of the fathers, but each shall be put to death for his own sin.”
2 Kings 14:5–6 (LEB) — 5 It happened that when the kingdom was firmly in his hand, he killed his servants who had killed his father the king. 6 But the sons of the killers he did not kill, as it is written in the scroll of the law of Moses which Yahweh had commanded, saying, “Fathers should not be killed because of children, and children should not be killed because of fathers; but a man should die because of his own sin.”
Jeremiah 31:30 (LEB) — 30 But each will die because of his iniquity, everyone who eats the unripe fruit, their teeth will be set on edge.
Ezekiel 18:18–20 (LEB) — 18 Because his father oppressed severely; he stole from his brother; that which is not good he did in the midst of his people, and look! He will die through his guilt. 19 “Yet you say, ‘Why does the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ And since the son does justice and righteousness and he keeps all of my statutes and does them, he shall surely live! 20 The person, the one sinning, will die. A son shall not bear the guilt of the father, and a father shall not bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him; the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.
Which appear consistent with your statement.
"so also death was passed on to all men, because all had sinned. ie, were sinners not all received his sin!"
