What's the Difference?

Now you're just being silly. Choosing to be wise is like choosing to be smart or choosing to be tall. Either you're wise or you're not.
Well I don't buy that at all. There's many who are conscious of what a wise thing is to do. In Prov 1:22 has wisdom crying out to the simple ones stating there's no reason at all that they should do something foolish. Wisdom even states they have the ability to turn at the reproofs she brings.

Now what you're doing though you're looking at after the fact somebody has done something dumb. That doesn't mean they didn't have a choice. So in context of what we've been talking about they chose to love darkness and not light. No need that they had to do that. They were FREE.

Either you're smart or you're not.
Well wisdom would have known there was no way the simple one could turn at her reproofs. Prov 1:22. So you would have it wisdom violated itself and became unwise by seeking to reason with the one. :)
You seem to think you can assign any attribute to free will. If that's the case, there's no point in discussing anything with you about this.
Well sure RT then have a nice day.
 
Sure its an answer but you don't like it.

Some love sin more than God and when convicted run and ignore God and haden their hearts while others respond to the conviction of sin and repent.

Its as simple as that as @Bob Carabbio likes to say. :)

It's not a matter of liking it. It's not an answer. Once again, assuming salvation is synergistic, there must be an answer to why "One chose yes, the other no". There's always a reason why we choose one thing over another, even if it's that we love darkness more than we love light. But my question is, why would one person love darkness, and the other love light?

Even the silly "I chose to be wise" avoids the question. Even if that were possible, what motivates one to choose to be wise? What is it in a man that moves him to make a choice like that? There must be something there in order for synergy to be true. What is it, and where does it come from?
 
There's always a reason why we choose one thing over another, even if it's that we love darkness more than we love light.

The power of self-determination IS the reason under the definition of LFW.

You must realize that your question already presupposes LFW cannot be true, so it is in that sense a loaded question.

"What is the reason that I declare cannot be the definition of LFW, what is the REASON!?!?!"

You forbid the correct answer in the parameters of the question by implying decisions can ONLY be predetermined by prior desires.

This is very typical Calvinist type logic... encountered it dozens of times.
 
For the sake of argument, let's assume that salvation is, at least in part, a free will choice.

God gives grace to two people. One resists and chooses not to accept it and is damned. The other does not resist and chooses to accept it and is saved.

What is the difference between these two people? What quality does the accepting person have that the rejecting person lacks? WHY does one person say yes, and the other say no?

There are many differences but one of the primary difference are the faithful...

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

What made the difference here? Abraham made the difference. God clearly says that Abraham taught his household.

Faith to faith.

Calvinism desires that others believe their insistence that God has chosen them above those just like everyone else. Calvinism makes salvation about individuals and not Jesus Christ.
 
There are many differences but one of the primary difference are the faithful...

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

What made the difference here? Abraham made the difference. God clearly says that Abraham taught his household.

Faith to faith.

Calvinism desires that others believe their insistence that God has chosen them above those just everyone else. Calvinism makes salvation about individuals and not Jesus Christ.
And it shows God doesn’t love everyone, all the world and makes a mockery out of the majority of scripture that reveals Gods love for the entire world for which Christ died and made atonement- 1 John 2:2
 
And it shows God doesn’t love everyone, all the world and makes a mockery out of the majority of scripture that reveals Gods love for the entire world for which Christ died and made atonement- 1 John 2:2

Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

It would certainly be ironic for God to recognize His own mercy as a standard for all men to live while not affording the same right to all men.
 
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Luk 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

It would certainly be ironic for God to recognize His own mercy as a standard for all men to live while not affording the same right to all men.
Amen
 
The complete collapse of the “ I “ in tulip. The fallacy of irresistible grace.

Irresistible Grace.

John Piper
“Irresistible grace refers to the sovereign work of God to overcome the rebellion of our heart and bring us to faith in Christ so that we can be saved.” Furthermore, “The doctrine of irresistible grace means that God is sovereign and can conquer all resistance when he wills.” In other words, “It means that the Holy Spirit, whenever he chooses, can overcome all resistance and make his influence irresistible.”

The question is this- is the above statement a universal truth found in Scripture or is it a doctrinal assumption in a systematic theology ?

Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

Barnes:
the triumphant King and Lord of Zion wept! Amid all "his" prosperity, and all the acclamations of the multitude, the heart of the Redeemer of the world was turned from the tokens of rejoicing to the miseries about to come on a guilty people. Yet they "might" have been saved.

conclusion: Those whom He came to seek and save ( the lost ) rejected Him.

2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!

Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.

People sin: Which separated all from fellowship with God.
Responsible: Able-to-respond to God’s appeals for reconciliation.
Open door: For anyone to enter by faith. Whosoever will may come to His open arms.
Vicarious atonement: Provides a way for anyone to be saved by Christ’s blood.
Illuminating grace: Provides clearly revealed truth so that all can know and respond in faith.
Destroyed: For unbelief and resisting the Holy Spirit.
Eternal security: For all true believers.

Gods teaching His Grace is resisted which refutes the " I " in tulip

My top 20 reasons against grace being irresistible


1-Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

2-Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.

3-Luke 19:41
And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it,

4-Galatians 5:4-7
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

5-Hebrews 12:14-15
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

6-2 Corinthians 6:1
As God’s partners, we beg you not to accept this marvelous gift of God’s kindness and then ignore it.

7-Hebrews 10:29
Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.

8-Hebrews 12:25
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!

9-Genesis 6:3: And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

10-2 Chronicles 36:15-16: And the Lord God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against His people, till there was no remedy.

11-Proverbs 29:1: He who is often rebuked, and hardens his neck, Will suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

12-Isaiah 30:15 “For thus says the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel: ‘In returning and rest you shall be saved; In quiteness and confidence shall be your strength.’ But you would not.”

13-Isaiah 65:2“I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts.”

14-Jeremiah 35:15 “I have also sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, ‘Turn now everyone from his evil way, amend your doings, and do not go after other gods to serve them; then you will dwell in the land which I have given to you and your fathers.’ But you have not inclined your ear, nor obeyed Me.”

15-Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.”

16-Acts 13:46: Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.”

17-Romans 10:21: But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.”

18- Matthew 23:37: Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.”

19- Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.

20- Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert.

Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)

Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.

Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him

In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand.

In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”

conclusion: You see the doctrine of irresistible grace is unfounded and there are many unproven presuppositions built into Gods Sovereignty and mans condition and free will to choose or reject God. God does not force Himself on anyone for that by definition would be unloving, just as it would be for you or I to force another person to love you.
 
For the sake of argument, let's assume that salvation is, at least in part, a free will choice.
Due to GOD's self revelation of HIS loving, righteous nature we can trust implicitly that our fates are completely self designed by our free will, not HIS will. Once some of HIS elect chose to be sinners, losing their free will to the enslaving addiction of evil, they are totally powerless to be involved in their salvation in the least, necessitating a life determined by GOD to redeem them and sanctify them to bring them back to their first free will decision to accept HIM as their GOD and Saviour from the natural and legal consequences of choosing to be sinful in HIS sight.

God gives grace to two people. One resists and chooses not to accept it and is damned. The other does not resist and chooses to accept it and is saved.

What is the difference between these two people? What quality does the accepting person have that the rejecting person lacks? WHY does one person say yes, and the other say no?
Indeed! Before the foundation of the world which we all saw, Job 38:7, YHWH proclaimed HIS deity and HIS gospel of salvation to every creature HE had made, Col 1:23, offering them salvation by the means of their putting their faith in HIM or damnation for resisting HIM and choosing to rebuke HIM as a false god.

On earth these are the people who have never believed on His name as saviour and so are condemned already, John 3:18.

Why can't they be saved by the power of GOD?
The difference in how GOD deals with sin is not found in the severity or lack thereof of the disvalure of the sin as all sin has an equal and ultimate disvalue in GOD's sight.

It is the relationship of the sinner to GOD that changes how the sin is dealt with. The so called smallest sin by an elect puts Christ on the cross. The so called smallest sin by a reprobate puts them in hell.

The unforgivable Sin
From my Christian pov, the unforgivable sin was the Satanic fall, their free will decision to reject by faith, ie, an unproven hope, YHWH's claims without proof to be our creator GOD and to reject the gospel of salvation from sin as found only in the Son. It contained the ideas that HE was no better than the rest of us so HE must be a liar and as a liar, a false god...just listen to atheists and pagans about their opinion of HIM for confirmation.

As the first liar in all of creation, HE must therefore be the most evil person in existence so they repudiated HIM, rejecting HIM from having any influence in their lives at all. Putting their faith in this idea that HE was evil and driven by a psychotic megalomania made them eternally unfit to ever be HIS Bride so they were condemned to judgement on the spot, passed over for election to salvation due to their choice.

They can't be forgiven because
1. they made the decision to rebel against GOD's claims to Deity by their free will and a free will decision cannot be changed by anyone, even GOD, unless the person asks for it to be changed. All free will decisions must be sacrosanct and inviolable, apart from GOD's interference or it cannot be defined as free. This is not a rule but a matter of definition: A cannot be not A at the same time; wet cannot be dry at the same time; free to choose an unchangeable decision can't therefore be changed by another and still be considered free.

2. Once they rebelled they became enslaved by the addictive power of evil which destroyed their ability to seek true repentance and save themselves by changing their minds about HIM. They were instantly and totally unable to repent of their evil and became even more committed to the belief that they were right to rebel against this upstart liar and false god. So great is their addiction to evil that even after they learned the truth of HIS divinity and power when they saw the creation of the physical universe with their own eyes as described in Job 38:7, they could not change their minds because they loved their sin more than the truth as we learn in Roman 1:20+.

This describes the Satanic fall that precipitated the war in heaven and had all sinners, elect and reprobate, flung into the earth.

They are not unforgivable because HE hates them and their sin so much because it is worse than other sins but because when HE proclaimed his gospel of salvation to every creature created in HIS image, Colossians 1:23, for us to accept HIS claims or to reject HIM, HE promised us our choice would not be interfered with or changed or forced upon us without our consent, though there would be legal and natural consequences...warnings which some ignored as lies.

The choice to repudiate HIS help in saving them from the grip of sin while becoming unable to save themselves by changing their minds sealed their doom.

So why does GOD offer HIS grace to every sinner on earth, even those HE knows cannot receive it? Not to see if they might receive it but to prove to the sinful elect (HIS sheep gone astray, the sinful but good, ie, elect, people of the kingdom) that they really cannot be saved and therefore their banishment to hell is an absolute necessity.
 
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