What is the difference between eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints?

[mailmandan]

Some believe intellectually, even the demons do that. The are like the ones that come to Jesus BUT... 21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

They were never saved.

Amen! Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. They failed to do the will of the Father unto salvation.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[JLB]

Some believe intellectually, even the demons do that. The are like the ones that come to Jesus BUT... 21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

They were never saved.

Those whom He never knew were never saved.


However, that’s not what we are discussing.

Once saved always saved.


We are discussing people who are saved, and whether or not they can become lost.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

“My sheep” refers to those who were in Christ, but didn’t remain in Christ, and therefore become lost.


We are saved, and therefore are in Christ, when we believe.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

[mailmandan]

I am sure many believe in eternal security, OSAS or whatever

and are not even saved

holding a doctrine does not save us

Trusting the gospel does.

True. There are folks who may have attended a Billy Graham crusade for example and answered an altar call, responding emotionally only but did not truly repent and believe the gospel then end up going through life believing they are eternally saved simply because they recited a prayer at that crusade, yet their life has not changed one bit because they did not experience the new birth. Some false converts may even say they can sin all they want, live like the devil etc.. no biggie, still saved which is false. So, you can find both saved and unsaved folks in the OSAS camp.

There are also folks that subscribe to NOSAS who may be saved and believe that it's possible to turn their back on the Lord down the road and remain that way and end up losing their salvation as long as they don't believe that works obtain and/or maintain their salvation.

On the other hand, there are folks who teach salvation by works at the back door in order to maintain salvation and sadly, I have found that all false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me. Roman Catholicism instantly comes to mind and believes that salvation is both obtained and maintained by works.

I have even run across a few very obnoxious and very self righteous folks who label OSAS as heresy and condemn ALL Christians in the OSAS camp as heretics. These folks seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome! I have no patience at all for these types of folks. I don't label ALL Christians in the NOSAS camp as heretics. So, even though some extremes may exist in both camps, you can still find saved and unsaved folks in both camps.

 

[JLB]

On the other hand, there are folks who teach salvation by works at the back door in order to maintain salvation and sadly, I have found that all false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me. Roman Catholicism instantly comes to mind and believes that salvation is both obtained and maintained by works.

Surely you understand that the OSAS doctrine came from the Catholic Augustine?

John Calvin learned his theology from him.

 

[JLB]

I have even run across a few very obnoxious and very self righteous folks who label OSAS as heresy and condemn ALL Christians in the OSAS camp as heretics. These folks seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome! I have no patience at all for these types of folks. I don't label ALL Christians in the NOSAS camp as heretics. So, even though some extremes may exist in both camps, you can still find saved and unsaved folks in both camps.

Heretics are those who promote doctrine outside of the doctrine of Christ.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

They have strayed concerning the truth because they have been conditioned to lean upon man’s doctrine so they resist the knowledge of the truth.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 2 Corinthians 10:4-5


Christians who promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

Heresies like sorcery bewitch the mind and cause division and confusion.


This is why you never address the words of Jesus Christ when I post them in response to your claims.

If you start to think about and meditate on the scriptures it will begin to tear they stronghold that is resisting the words of Jesus Christ.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

“My sheep” refers to those who were in Christ, but didn’t remain in Christ, and therefore become lost.


Jesus plainly teaches that His sheep can indeed become lost.


Do the lost need salvation?

 

[mailmandan]

Surely you understand that the OSAS doctrine came from the Catholic Augustine?

John Calvin learned his theology from him.

That's strange. Roman Catholics and most people in the NOSAS camp in general that I have spoken with claim that OSAS was not taught until the reformation and that none of the church fathers supported OSAS.

I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church and they strongly opposed OSAS, consistently quoted the church fathers to help support their doctrine and promoted salvation by faith AND works/works righteousness.

 

[JLB]

That's strange. Roman Catholics and most people in the NOSAS camp in general that I have spoken with claim that OSAS was not taught until the reformation and that none of the church fathers supported OSAS.

I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church and they strongly opposed OSAS, consistently quoted the church fathers to help support their doctrine and promoted salvation by faith AND works/works righteousness.

The reformation fathers learned it from Augustine of Hippo.

 

[Foster]

True. There are folks who may have attended a Billy Graham crusade for example and answered an altar call, responding emotionally only but did not truly repent and believe the gospel then end up going through life believing they are eternally saved simply because they recited a prayer at that crusade, yet their life has not changed one bit because they did not experience the new birth. Some false converts may even say they can sin all they want, live like the devil etc.. no biggie, still saved which is false. So, you can find both saved and unsaved folks in the OSAS camp.

There are also folks that subscribe to NOSAS who may be saved and believe that it's possible to turn their back on the Lord down the road and remain that way and end up losing their salvation as long as they don't believe that works obtain and/or maintain their salvation.

On the other hand, there are folks who teach salvation by works at the back door in order to maintain salvation and sadly, I have found that all false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me. Roman Catholicism instantly comes to mind and believes that salvation is both obtained and maintained by works.

I have even run across a few very obnoxious and very self righteous folks who label OSAS as heresy and condemn ALL Christians in the OSAS camp as heretics. These folks seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome! I have no patience at all for these types of folks. I don't label ALL Christians in the NOSAS camp as heretics. So, even though some extremes may exist in both camps, you can still find saved and unsaved folks in both camps.

I think the point is whatever side of the fence you are on when it comes to this topic If you trust and believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior your heaven bound.

Once you are saved you have the Holy Spirit to lead you into all truth. That being the case way would anyone ever come up with the plan to turn their back on the one who saved them. If they are a new creation they should know Jesus is the way.

The Bible warns us not to make disputes over “opinions” that Christians may validly hold, even if they are wrong
1 As for the man who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not for disputes over opinions.
Romans 13:1

Being that people with these varying opinions had Christ die for them we may conclude that they may be properly called Christians.

If your brother is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died.
Romans 14:15

If we feel the need to correct some one lets do it in love.

If one really understands OSAS they know that God's grace is not a license to sin.

 

[mailmandan]

The reformation fathers learned it from Augustine of Hippo.

Are you saying that Augustine of Hippo actually did teach OSAS?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

True. There are folks who may have attended a Billy Graham crusade for example and answered an altar call, responding emotionally only but did not truly repent and believe the gospel then end up going through life believing they are eternally saved simply because they recited a prayer at that crusade, yet their life has not changed one bit because they did not experience the new birth. Some false converts may even say they can sin all they want, live like the devil etc.. no biggie, still saved which is false. So, you can find both saved and unsaved folks in the OSAS camp.

There are also folks that subscribe to NOSAS who may be saved and believe that it's possible to turn their back on the Lord down the road and remain that way and end up losing their salvation as long as they don't believe that works obtain and/or maintain their salvation.

On the other hand, there are folks who teach salvation by works at the back door in order to maintain salvation and sadly, I have found that all false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me. Roman Catholicism instantly comes to mind and believes that salvation is both obtained and maintained by works.

I have even run across a few very obnoxious and very self righteous folks who label OSAS as heresy and condemn ALL Christians in the OSAS camp as heretics. These folks seem to be suffering from a severe case of anti-OSAS derangement syndrome! I have no patience at all for these types of folks. I don't label ALL Christians in the NOSAS camp as heretics. So, even though some extremes may exist in both camps, you can still find saved and unsaved folks in both camps.

I think we need to go back to the root.

Jesus paid it all. He suffered the death of the cross. I sat in a bible study this morning on psalms. And the teacher mentioned Ps 22. And painted a picture of the savior. Who not only suffered the death of a cross (the worse form of execution created by Man) but suffered the pain of holding our sin on his body.

He in effect told us many years earlier what he would suffer and what would happen so we can know when it does.

God is telling us stop working, stop tryign so hard to make yourself right with me because you can’t make yourself right with God. No matter what you do

come to him and he will give you rest. Because he did all the work for you.

He is not only the author of our faith he is the finisher of our faith (his inspired words not. Mine) but he is the author and finisher of our salvation.

yet these people want to put fear into others and say this is not enough, We do have to do something, We do have to work. We do have to stop resting and go to work.. of it will all be for naught.

Saying salvation can be lost is a stain on Gods reputation. A stain on his work. And a stain on his character. It’s as bad if not worse than the fatalistic view of calvin, Because it points to self and not God. It rejects the cross as the sole means of redemption and atonement, and tries to insert our works righteousness into t he equation.

 

[JLB]

Are you saying that Augustine of Hippo actually did teach OSAS?

Why Do We And St. Augustine Believe “Once Saved Always Saved”? - Koinos Church

This past Sunday my sermon covered the verses in Hebrews stating the possibility of people falling away from Jesus. This brings up the long debated and feared question, “Can one who has been saved by faith in Jesus lose their salvation?” Most Baptist churches answer that question, “No,” so...

koinos.church

This teaching began to be popular in his time around 354 AD.


The Apostles never taught it.

 

[GodsGrace]

How it works. The good soil brought forth fruit unto perfection.

3 And He told them many things in parables (stories by way of illustration and comparison), saying, A sower went out to sow.
4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell by the roadside, and the birds came and ate them up.
5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they had not much soil; and at once they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil.
6 But when the sun rose, they were scorched, and because they had no root, they dried up and withered away.
7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them out.
8 Other seeds fell on good soil, and yielded grain—some a hundred times as much as was sown, some sixty times as much, and some thirty.
9 He who has ears [to hear], let him be listening and let him consider and perceive and comprehend by hearing.
10 Then the disciples came to Him and said, Why do You speak to them in parables?
11 And He replied to them, To you it has been given to know the secrets and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
12 For whoever has [spiritual knowledge], to him will more be given and he will be furnished richly so that he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
13 This is the reason that I speak to them in parables: because having the power of seeing, they do not see; and having the power of hearing, they do not hear, nor do they grasp and understand.
14 In them indeed is the process of fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah, which says: You shall indeed hear and hear but never grasp and understand; and you shall indeed look and look but never see and perceive.
15 For this nation’s heart has grown gross (fat and dull), and their ears heavy and difficult of hearing, and their eyes they have tightly closed, lest they see and perceive with their eyes, and hear and comprehend the sense with their ears, and grasp and understand with their heart, and turn and I should heal them. [Isa. 6:9, 10.]
16 But blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) are your eyes because they do see, and your ears because they do hear.
17 Truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men [men who were upright and in right standing with God] yearned to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
18 Listen then to the [meaning of the] parable of the sower:
19 While anyone is hearing the Word of the kingdom and does not grasp and comprehend it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the roadside.
20 As for what was sown on thin (rocky) soil, this is he who hears the Word and at once welcomes and accepts it with joy;
21 Yet it has no real root in him, but is temporary (inconstant, lasts but a little while); and when affliction or trouble or persecution comes on account of the Word, at once he is caused to stumble [he is repelled and begins to distrust and desert Him Whom he ought to trust and obey] and he falls away.
22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the Word, but the cares of the world and the pleasure and delight and glamour and deceitfulness of riches choke and suffocate the Word, and it yields no fruit.
23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the Word and grasps and comprehends it; he indeed bears fruit and yields in one case a hundred times as much as was sown, in another sixty times as much, and in another thirty.
Mt 13:3–23.


The wayside soil, the stony soil, and the thorny soil represent three classes of persons who make improper responses to the preaching of the word and so do not become Christians. The good soil represents the class of persons who do make a proper response to the preaching of the word and so do become Christians.

Just as the seed in the good soil was nourished by nature until it brought forth fruit unto perfection, even so is the seed (the word of God) in the Christian nourished by God until it brings forth fruit unto perfection. In other words, God nourishes the seed sown in Christians until a harvest is realized. All Christians are fruitful but some Christians, being more yielded to God than other Christians, are more fruitful than other Christians.

What if a Christian yields NO fruit?

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Jesus is the true vine.
God Father is the vinedresser.
What happens to the branches that do not bear fruit?
Does this mean that it's possible for some branches to NOT bear fruit?

 

[mailmandan]

Heretics are those who promote doctrine outside of the doctrine of Christ.

Do you believe that OSAS is a heretical doctrine and that ALL Christians in the OSAS camp (those who believe in eternally security of the believer/preservation of the saints (and not a license to sin) are heretics and will not be saved?

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

In 2 John 9 we see two camps:

1. Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God" (never did) and
2. Those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son.

They have strayed concerning the truth because they have been conditioned to lean upon man’s doctrine, so they resist the knowledge of the truth.

This would demonstrate that the knowledge of the truth was never firmly rooted and established from the start.

For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 2 Corinthians 10:4-5

The weapons of warfare are not of the flesh but are spiritual and have divine power to destroy strongholds against the knowledge of God. In this spiritual war for the mind, Paul reveals an important truth. Wrong teaching leads to wrong thinking, which leads to disobedience to Christ. Understanding the true knowledge of God leads to right thinking, which leads to obedience to Christ. In going to war against the false arguments of his opponents, Paul's final goal here is that these Corinthians would obey Christ.

Christians who promote heresy will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Christians who promote heresy is an oxymoron. Christians promote essential Christian doctrine, not heresy.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

Notice, those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. In 1 John 3:9, we read - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. *Hermeneutics. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, we see a similar list of sins that are practiced by the unrighteous. 1 Corinthians 6:9 - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Not the righteous but the unrighteous. Let that sink in. Now in regard to the righteous, in 1 Corinthians 6:11, we read - And such were some of you. (past tense) But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. See the contrast?

Heresies like sorcery bewitch the mind and cause division and confusion.

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. Heretics pervert the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

This is why you never address the words of Jesus Christ when I post them in response to your claims.

What do you mean by I NEVER address the words of Jesus Christ when you post them? That is a lie.

If you start to think about and meditate on the scriptures it will begin to tear they stronghold that is resisting the words of Jesus Christ.

I'm not resisting the words of Jesus Christ. I have been a Christian for around 27 hears now and have spent many hours meditating on the words of Jesus Christ and Peter, and Paul for several years. Who are you to judge me?

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

I already covered this in post #1,318 in the "Excellent discussion on OSAS" thread, so your false accusation that I NEVER address the words of Jesus Christ when you post them certainly is a lie. You owe me an apology.

In regard to the 100 sheep in Luke 15, we see that Jesus is directing this parable to the Pharisees and scribes who complained, saying that Jesus receives sinners and eats with them, while failing to recognize because of pride and self-righteousness that they were sinners themselves. The main point of this parable is not that one of Jesus' sheep who He gave eternal life to lost their salvation and had to regain it back again, (which contradicts John 10:27-28 - hermeneutics) but the absolute importance of finding the one lost sheep -- there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

So, this parable does not teach that this one "sheep" in this case was a saved person in the body of Christ under the new covenant (which was not yet fully established) who lost their salvation and had to repent and get saved all over again. That is not the point. *Context is key. Luke 15:1-2 sets the scene. The religious leaders criticized Jesus for associating with these sinners. Jesus responds with three parables describing how these religious leaders should have reacted when faced with sinners who wish to repent.

Now look what Jesus said in Matthew 5:5 - These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

In Luke 19:10, we read - for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost. Not save those all over again who lost salvation. Jeremiah 50:6 - My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray. Doesn't mean they were saved. The Israelites are His people (chosen people of God) and His sheep physically, even the lost ones.

“My sheep” refers to those who were in Christ, but didn’t remain in Christ, and therefore become lost.

That is your eisegesis but is incorrect. You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)

Jesus plainly teaches that His sheep can indeed become lost.

The lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 5:5) Don't get ahead of yourself. We are still in the gospel of Matthew and not the Pauline epistles yet. “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Do the lost need salvation?

The lost sheep of the house of Israel certainly do and so do the rest of the lost.

 

[mailmandan]

Why Do We And St. Augustine Believe “Once Saved Always Saved”? - Koinos Church

This past Sunday my sermon covered the verses in Hebrews stating the possibility of people falling away from Jesus. This brings up the long debated and feared question, “Can one who has been saved by faith in Jesus lose their salvation?” Most Baptist churches answer that question, “No,” so...

koinos.church

This teaching began to be popular in his time around 354 AD.

The Apostles never taught it.

So, Roman Catholics and others who strongly oppose OSAS are not telling us the truth when they said that OSAS was NEVER taught before the reformation? Interesting! I have heard Roman Catholics and others who strongly oppose FAITH ALONE make the same claim that it was never taught before the reformation, but that is not true either.

Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Ignatius: "His cross, and his death, and his resurrection, and the faith which is through him, are my unpolluted muniments; and in these, through your prayers, I am willing to be justified (Epistle to Philadelphians). Note: "muniments" are title deeds, documents giving evidence of legal ownership of something.

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Justin Martyr: "No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer...are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account (Dialogue with Trypho). "God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors" (Letter to Diognetus).

Ireneus: "Through the obedience of one man who first was born from the Virgin, many should be justified and receive salvation."

Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."

Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin.""

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."​

 

[mailmandan]

Just as the seed in the good soil was nourished by nature until it brought forth fruit unto perfection, even so is the seed (the word of God) in the Christian nourished by God until it brings forth fruit unto perfection. In other words, God nourishes the seed sown in Christians until a harvest is realized. All Christians are fruitful but some Christians, being more yielded to God than other Christians, are more fruitful than other Christians.

Amen! All genuine Christians are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful. Matthew 13:23 - But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. Those who bear no fruit at all are not truly converted/not Christians -- faith without works is dead. Faith is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

 

[mailmandan]

Why Do We And St. Augustine Believe “Once Saved Always Saved”? - Koinos Church

This past Sunday my sermon covered the verses in Hebrews stating the possibility of people falling away from Jesus. This brings up the long debated and feared question, “Can one who has been saved by faith in Jesus lose their salvation?” Most Baptist churches answer that question, “No,” so...

koinos.church

This teaching began to be popular in his time around 354 AD.

The Apostles never taught it.

Neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever taught a license for immorality (exploitation of OSAS) but they did teach eternal security of the believer/preservation of the saints.

John 6:38 - For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me but raise them up at the last day.

John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none."
Romans 8:30 - Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

1 Corinthians 1:8 - who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:22 - who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 Peter 1:5 - who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Jude 1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

 

[Foster]

What if a Christian yields NO fruit?

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Jesus is the true vine.
God Father is the vinedresser.
What happens to the branches that do not bear fruit?
Does this mean that it's possible for some branches to NOT bear fruit?

I really don't know and will do some digging deeper on it. I'm sure God has made a way for us to get back on track and make our life in Jesus fruitful.

Consequences of Unfruitfulness: The removal of unfruitful branches highlights the seriousness of spiritual barrenness and the expectation of growth in a believer's life.
This verse encourages reflection on one's spiritual state and the importance of being connected to Christ for a fruitful life.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
15:1-8 Jesus Christ is the Vine, the true Vine. The union of the human and Divine natures, and the fulness of the Spirit that is in him, resemble the root of the vine made fruitful by the moisture from a rich soil. Believers are branches of this Vine. The root is unseen, and our life is hid with Christ; the root bears the tree, diffuses sap to it, and in Christ are all supports and supplies. The branches of the vine are many, yet, meeting in the root, are all but one vine; thus all true Christians, though in place and opinion distant from each other, meet in Christ.

Believers, like the branches of the vine, are weak, and unable to stand but as they are borne up. The Father is the Husbandman. Never was any husbandman so wise, so watchful, about his vineyard, as God is about his church, which therefore must prosper. We must be fruitful. From a vine we look for grapes, and from a Christian we look for a Christian temper, disposition, and life. We must honour God, and do good; this is bearing fruit. The unfruitful are taken away. And even fruitful branches need pruning; for the best have notions, passions, and humours, that require to be taken away, which Christ has promised to forward the sanctification of believers, they will be thankful, for them.

The word of Christ is spoken to all believers; and there is a cleansing virtue in that word, as it works grace, and works out corruption. And the more fruit we bring forth, the more we abound in what is good, the more our Lord is glorified. In order to fruitfulness, we must abide in Christ, must have union with him by faith. It is the great concern of all Christ's disciples, constantly to keep up dependence upon Christ, and communion with him.

True Christians find by experience, that any interruption in the exercise of their faith, causes holy affections to decline, their corruptions to revive, and their comforts to droop. Those who abide not in Christ, though they may flourish for awhile in outward profession, yet come to nothing. The fire is the fittest place for withered branches; they are good for nothing else. Let us seek to live more simply on the fulness of Christ, and to grow more fruitful in every good word and work, so may our joy in Him and in his salvation be full.

 

[synergy]

The three different terms (eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints) are often used interchangeably. However, there are subtle differences between them even though they basically mean the same thing – that a person cannot lose his salvation. Critics of eternal security in Christ often assert various challenges to the position, including misrepresentations and incomplete representation of the position. Nevertheless, though I cannot find any “official” definition for each of the three terms, by looking through theological dictionaries, various websites, writings, etc., I’ve come up with the following information.

Matt Slick Meister??? The Calvinist prophet of Heresy? Seriously?

1. Eternal Security is the teaching that all who are Christians and are truly regenerated are eternally secure in their salvation and will never fall away because their salvation is dependent on Christ’s faithfulness and work. It was Jesus who completely redeemed them of all their sins and their actions, and goodness does not maintain their salvation. It is God who secures the believer. But, this does not mean those thus saved will not fall into sin. Instead, though they may backslide, they will never fully turn from God and fall out of the state of his grace. Furthermore, it means God will work in the conviction and discipline of the believer who backslides.

If one is secure (saved) when regenerated and saved again afterwards when they believe (as the Bible declares) then that makes all calvinists the Twice-Saved. Calvinists are certainly a silly bunch

1. Perseverance of the Saints is often equated with eternal security. It means that once a person is truly born again, God will work through the person so that the person will persevere throughout his life and not lose his salvation. It emphasizes God’s work and ability to perfect the Christian (Philippians 1:6) and that Christians are sealed permanently with Him (Ephesians 1:13-14).

TULIP's POS is actually Preservation of the Elect. Calvinism is based on election, not on sainthood. This POS title is a slick way to get unsuspecting people to buy in on their heresy considering that not all Israeli elect are saved.

1. Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is the position that no matter what a person does he will remain saved. He is always saved once he is saved. This position also includes the reality of regeneration since anyone who is truly saved is also truly regenerated. Regeneration produces in the person a desire to serve God and avoid sin (Romans 7:18-25). However, like eternal security, those who adhere to once saved always saved acknowledge that Christians can backslide.

These advocates disregard Heb 6:4-6, and the rest of the Bible for that matter.

Critics of eternal security often cite various verses in an attempt to show that a Christian can lose his salvation. The logic is that a Christian can turn his back on God and stop believing, or do enough bad things to disqualify him from being saved. These verses are addressed in the CARM section dealing with eternal security. Furthermore, these same critics often state that if a person believes he cannot lose his salvation, then it is a license to sin. This is not the position of those who hold to eternal security. We are regenerated; and because of regeneration from God, we war against our sin (Romans 7:18-25). We do not consider it a license to sin because we are new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17). Furthermore, anyone who claims to be a Christian and purposely uses God’s grace in order to sin is demonstrating that he is not regenerate because he is acting in a manner that contradicts regeneration (1 John 2:4).

Matt Slick

That's the resurfacing of the old No True Scotsman Fallacy.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GodsGrace]

Matt Slick Meister??? The Calvinist prophet of Heresy? Seriously?

If one is secure (saved) when regenerated and saved again afterwards when they believe (as the Bible declares) then that makes all calvinists the Twice-Saved. Calvinists are certainly a silly bunch

TULIP's POS is actually Preservation of the Elect. Calvinism is based on election, not on sainthood. This POS title is a slick way to get unsuspecting people to buy in on their heresy considering that not all Israeli elect are saved.

These advocates disregard Heb 6:4-6, and the rest of the Bible for that matter.

That's the resurfacing of the old No True Scotsman Fallacy.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yes.
I'm still trying to understand the difference between a BELIEVER and a TRUE BELIEVER.

 

[synergy]

Yes.
I'm still trying to understand the difference between a BELIEVER and a TRUE BELIEVER.

That's the "No True Scotsman Fallacy."
Calvinists are a silly bunch.