What is the difference between eternal security, once saved always saved, and perseverance of the saints?

[GodsGrace]

That's the ,"No True Scotsman Fallacy."
Calvinists are a silly bunch.

I know.
I read your link.

 

[JLB]

Do you believe that OSAS is a heretical doctrine and that ALL Christians in the OSAS camp (those who believe in eternally security of the believer/preservation of the saints (and not a license to sin) are heretics and will not be saved?

If they continue in this doctrine and don’t repent they have transgressed the doctrine of Christ and they no longer have God.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

 

[JLB]

In 2 John 9 we see two camps:

1. Those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God" (never did) and
2. Those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son.

I agree

 

[JLB]

This would demonstrate that the knowledge of the truth was never firmly rooted and established from the start.

How can a person stray from something they never had?

 

[JLB]

So, Roman Catholics and others who strongly oppose OSAS are not telling us the truth when they said that OSAS was NEVER taught before the reformation? Interesting! I have heard Roman Catholics and others who strongly oppose FAITH ALONE make the same claim that it was never taught before the reformation, but that is not true either.

I have heard people say a lot of things.

I stick to scripture and what the word of God teaches when discussing doctrine.

 

[JLB]

John 6:38 - For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me but raise them up at the last day.

John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

I agree it’s the will of God the Father that all are saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.


For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4


Yes those who hear and follow (obey) the Lord are promised to receive eternal life.

This truth is echoed throughout the scriptures.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Hebrews 5:9

 

[mailmandan]

How can a person stray from something they never had?

Having the knowledge of the truth does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. A person can still stray from the truth they heard and even considered for a while but then strayed away instead of submitting to and fully embracing the truth.

 

[mailmandan]

I have heard people say a lot of things.

I stick to scripture and what the word of God teaches when discussing doctrine.

Ultimately, it comes down to what the word of God says. Only scripture is inspired by God and is infallible.

 

[JLB]

Having the knowledge of the truth does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. A person can still stray from the truth they heard and even considered for a while but then strayed away instead of submitting to and fully embracing the truth.

Yes. Only those who hear and do (obey) will receive salvation at the end of their faith.


receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9


The end result of faith in Christ for salvation is the salvation of our soul.

 

[JLB]

Ultimately, it comes down to what the word of God says. Only scripture is inspired by God and is infallible.

I agree.

 

[mailmandan]

I agree it’s the will of God the Father that all are saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:3-4

Yes those who hear and follow (obey) the Lord are promised to receive eternal life.

This truth is echoed throughout the scriptures.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.
Hebrews 5:9

Only Jesus' sheep (believers - John 3:18; 5:24) hear and follow (obey) the Lord (John 10:27-28) and are promised to receive eternal life.

In regard to Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I often hear those who promote salvation by faith AND WORKS cite this verse in an effort to support works-righteousness.

Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3) and practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10) In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up from an unregenerate heart in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. (Matthew 7:22-23) So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

 

[JLB]

Only Jesus' sheep (believers - John 3:18; 5:24) hear and follow (obey) the Lord (John 10:27-28) and are promised to receive eternal life.

Yes. His sheep are those to hear and obey.

 

[JLB]

Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved,

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16


Only those who hear and believe the the Gospel are saved.

There is power (grace; the Holy Spirit) available to empower those who hear to be able to believe the Gospel.

 

[Adherent]

If they continue in this doctrine and don’t repent they have transgressed the doctrine of Christ and they no longer have God.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

But didn't Jesus say he would never leave us or Forsake us?

Jesus is the Good Shepherd

It should be understood that Jesus is “the” good shepherd, not simply “a” good shepherd, as others may be, but He is unique in character (Psalm 23; Zechariah 13:7; Hebrews 13:20; 1 Peter 2:25; 1 Peter 5:4). The Greek word kalos, translated “good,” describes that which is noble, wholesome, good, and beautiful, in contrast to that which is wicked, mean, foul, and unlovely. It signifies not only that which is good inwardly—character—but also that which is attractive outwardly. It is an innate goodness. Therefore, in using the phrase “the good shepherd,” Jesus is referencing His inherent goodness, His righteousness, and His beauty. As shepherd of the sheep, He is the one who protects, guides, and nurtures His flock. Got?

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:28-29

He will leave the 99 and go get that one lost lamb

 

[mailmandan]

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

Only those who hear and believe the the Gospel are saved.

There is power (grace; the Holy Spirit) available to empower those who hear to be able to believe the Gospel.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 - For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

 

[synergy]

But didn't Jesus say he would never leave us or Forsake us?

Jesus is the Good Shepherd

Yes but you're forgetting our side of the relationship. It's us who forsake Jesus.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:28-29

He will leave the 99 and go get that one lost lamb

As long as you abide in the Father's hand then of course nobody can snatch you out of it. That's why the Bible exhorts again and again that we must continue abide in Christ otherwise we get cut off as fruitless branches.

 

[JLB]

But didn't Jesus say he would never leave us or Forsake us?

Yes He did.

However becoming a lost sheep of his is about us wander away from Him.

 

[JLB]

He will leave the 99 and go get that one lost lamb

He operates through His people.

Please understand that.


Jesus was teaching Pastors how to go after lost sheep.


It requires a human being who has Jesus within them to go after people in sin.


Can we discuss this further.

 

[Tranquil]

Yes He did.

However becoming a lost sheep of his is about us wander away from Him.

Yes but he will make sure we return. I've seen it happen.

 

[Tranquil]

Yes but you're forgetting our side of the relationship. It's us who forsake Jesus.

As long as you abide in the Father's hand then of course nobody can snatch you out of it. That's why the Bible exhorts again and again that we must continue abide in Christ otherwise we get cut off as fruitless branches.

Forsake means to quit or leave entirely, abandon, or desert. It can also mean to give up or renounce a habit or way of life. In a literary context, it can mean to leave someone forever, especially when they need you. Forsake is a synonym of abandon and desert, and means to leave without intending to return.

But when the world beats us down and our life is like hell on earth wake up we turn back to our Fathers house.