What is KJO ?

[GeneZ]

Well, what bibles would be the most accurate for English then? That aren't paraphrasing?

Something like this!
https://rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

Its what the Bible tells us we should be learning from... Eph 4:11-12.

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists,
the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service,
so that the body of Christ may be built up."




Not saying you should listen to the pastor I showed in the link.. But, to find someone who can teach that way.
Its our only hope for accuracy. For it can take many words to explain what a single word in the Hebrew and Greek
are conveying in intent.

Simplified translations are too often like denatured white bread when compared to nutrient rich whole grain bread from a good translation
by a pastor teacher who is dedicated to in depth study. There are only a few to be found.

The first churches (and for centuries after) had no Bible translations on their laps to try to learn the Word of God from.
They depended solely upon those were called to study and teach.

Translations came out as a safe guard after Satan had learned how to corrupt many of those who were to teach.

 

[360watt]

Something like this!
https://rbthieme.org/index.html#tabs-3

Its what the Bible tells us we should be learning from... Eph 4:11-12.

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists,
the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service,
so that the body of Christ may be built up."




Not saying you should listen to the pastor I showed in the link.. But, to find someone who can teach that way.
Its our only hope for accuracy. For it can take many words to explain what a single word in the Hebrew and Greek
are conveying in intent.

Simplified translations are too often like denatured white bread when compared to nutrient rich whole grain bread from a good translation
by a pastor teacher who is dedicated to in depth study. There are only a few to be found.

The first churches (and for centuries after) had no Bible translations on their laps to try to learn the Word of God from.
They depended solely upon those were called to study and teach.

Translations came out as a safe guard after Satan had learned how to corrupt many of those who were to teach.

Just as an aside... are you and praise yeshua both Jews who accept Jesus as God?

 

[GeneZ]

Just as an aside... are you and praise yeshua both Jews who accept Jesus as God?

You should ask PY himself for his answer.

As for me? Absolutely!

I did not know what a Jew is until I did!

 

[360watt]

You should ask PY himself for his answer.

As for me? Absolutely!

I did not know what a Jew is until I did!

Yes I know some Jews will say if you aren't into Judaism..you aren't a Jew...I don't like that thinking. I'm not Jewish but have I think a middle Eastern/Mediterranean nose and my dads ancestry has some sort of Spanish /Mediterranean.

 

[JD731]

They do? I very strongly disagree. Translation have bias. Every single English translation has bias. You can find it in the words they choose to use in translation.

Here is a perfect example from the KJV.

Heb_13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb_13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Heb_13:24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.

This translation dishonors Jesus Christ. There is ONLY ONE ruler. There is ONLY One King. The KJV false translation ἡγέομαι as rule/ruler.

King James did this. He believed in the "Divine Rights of Kings". He believed he RULED the Church of God. He did this in opposition to Bible of the Reformers. The Geneva Bible

Heb 13:8 Remember them which have the oversight of you, which haue declared unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering what hath been the end of their conversation. Jesus Christ yesterday, and to day, the same also is for ever.

See how they cut Jesus Christ out verse 7/8 in Hebrews 13:7/8 and made it ALL about themselves.

This is what men do. Deceive others.

I encourage you to pay attention to the context. The author is writing to the Hebrew believers in Christ, This is an ethnic designation for this body of believers, likely in Jerusalem. It is in the mid 60's of the first century. Thirty five years have passed since Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose again from the dead. James was the pastor of these Hebrews at the time of the controversy resulting from Paul's first missionary journey to the gentiles in Asia minor when many were saved by his preaching and Christian churches were established in Galatia and the province of Asia and in Pontus and other provinces of the region. This is recorded in Acts 15 when Paul the missionary was coming home to his sending church in Antioch Syria. Some of the Jews contended with Paul insisting that keeping portions of the law of Moses, particularly circumcision, was needed for gentiles to be saved. The decision was made by the church in Syria to send a contingent to Jerusalem about this question.

Why Jerusalem? Because that is where the authority of God resided in the persons of his chosen apostles until the canon of scripture was completed. The fact that no one, not even the contentious Jews in Antioch raised an objection, which is strong evidence that all these Jews knew this. The question would be handled at the council of the apostles. They were in Jerusalem as their base of operation and I can prove that with scripture, taken in context, if you ask me to. There was not even any mention of prayer at this council meeting. A verdict was reached and letters were sent out to the churches. Gentiles were not obligated to keep any of the law of Moses but were admonished to be mindful of Jewish sensibilities regarding a couple issues.

So, yes, these apostles were not Lords over these Hebrews, but they were the authority over them, and according to John 20, Jesus spoke through them and the scriptures were written through them, recording what they said and taught. No one else wrote scripture who were not of the 12 apostles or the 70 others of Luke 10, all of whom were chosen by the Lord to preach his truth to the Jews.

After the dispersion, ending the apostolic era of the church age, what they wrote became the sole authority of God. God preserved it over the centuries in certain languages of people who would receive it and proclaim it to others because salvation comes by hearing and believing the words of God, not the words of men. I am not guessing about that. Men must hear the words God said because he has said nothing to men since then.

I hope you can see my point here.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I encourage you to pay attention to the context. The author is writing to the Hebrew believers in Christ, This is an ethnic designation for this body of believers, likely in Jerusalem. It is in the mid 60's of the first century. Thirty five years have passed since Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose again from the dead. James was the pastor of these Hebrews at the time of the controversy resulting from Paul's first missionary journey to the gentiles in Asia minor when many were saved by his preaching and Christian churches were established in Galatia and the province of Asia and in Pontus and other provinces of the region. This is recorded in Acts 15 when Paul the missionary was coming home to his sending church in Antioch Syria. Some of the Jews contended with Paul insisting that keeping portions of the law of Moses, particularly circumcision, was needed for gentiles to be saved. The decision was made by the church in Syria to send a contingent to Jerusalem about this question.

Why Jerusalem? Because that is where the authority of God resided in the persons of his chosen apostles until the canon of scripture was completed. The fact that no one, not even the contentious Jews in Antioch raised an objection, which is strong evidence that all these Jews knew this. The question would be handled at the council of the apostles. They were in Jerusalem as their base of operation and I can prove that with scripture, taken in context, if you ask me to. There was not even any mention of prayer at this council meeting. A verdict was reached and letters were sent out to the churches. Gentiles were not obligated to keep any of the law of Moses but were admonished to be mindful of Jewish sensibilities regarding a couple issues.

So, yes, these apostles were not Lords over these Hebrews, but they were the authority over them, and according to John 20, Jesus spoke through them and the scriptures were written through them, recording what they said and taught. No one else wrote scripture who were not of the 12 apostles or the 70 others of Luke 10, all of whom were chosen by the Lord to preach his truth to the Jews.

After the dispersion, ending the apostolic era of the church age, what they wrote became the sole authority of God. God preserved it over the centuries in certain languages of people who would receive it and proclaim it to others because salvation comes by hearing and believing the words of God, not the words of men. I am not guessing about that. Men must hear the words God said because he has said nothing to men since then.

I hope you can see my point here.

Luke wasn't of the seventy nor one of the 12. Just making the point.
The apostles did not rule the followers of Christ. "Rule" is more than simply claiming authority. Rule is expressing power. Unchallenged power. Even the apostles didn't have such power. Only Christ has such power. Thus says the Scriptures.....

1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

 

[JD731]

Luke wasn't of the seventy nor one of the 12. Just making the point.
The apostles did not rule the followers of Christ. "Rule" is more than simply claiming authority. Rule is expressing power. Unchallenged power. Even the apostles didn't have such power. Only Christ has such power. Thus says the Scriptures.....

1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

I accept anything you can prove from a KJV, taken in context, including your contention that Luke was not an elder of the 70 chosen in Luke 10. Apostles did have ruling authority. Following is a whole paragraph that I encourage you to read. It deals with apostolic authority and rule. I hope you will pay close attention.

2 Cor10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ’s, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ’s, even so are we Christ’s.
8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
12 ¶ For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
13 But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.
14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men’s labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, and not to boast in another man’s line of things made ready to our hand.
17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Consider this statement about the word of God;

Ro 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them (the Jew) were committed the oracles of God.

I think Luke was a Jew.

Pe 5:1Pe 5:1 ¶ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock

This is instructions to the elders who were among them, of which Peter includes himself, and who were eye witnesses of the suffering on the cross of Christ. He is not addressing the extent of their ministry but the character of it.

This teaches us that an apostle is an elder but an elder is not necessarily an apostle, unless he is a member of the 12. Remember, this letter is written in an actual historical time frame and must be considered in that context.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes I know some Jews will say if you aren't into Judaism..you aren't a Jew...I don't like that thinking. I'm not Jewish but have I think a middle Eastern/Mediterranean nose and my dads ancestry has some sort of Spanish /Mediterranean.

Once I began understanding the Bible as a Spirit filled Christian, I suddenly realized I could believe and understand OT believers.
I could not do that before. I did not know what to make of it. As a Jew I used to think ancients like David and Moses were living in a more primitive state of mind that allowed them to believe in God as the Bible says they did. But it was just the opposite. Being regenerate accordingly, and living in those days with the Torah, made them more advanced thinking than the dead heads we have living amongst us today..

 

[Rockerduck]

The KJV has been used for over 400 yrs and billions have been saved with it and the preaching with it. Modern translations are recent and copyrighted. The KJV is public use. Anyone can rewrite it and they have. God has blessed the KJV and its been around the world with missionaries. I will only use the NKJV and KJV. There is a continuity of words that flow through the KJV. Programs have been written to mathematically divide the words with amazing results. I view it as God's word over most translations.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Would like to name someone that has authority over me?

Chuckle!!! It's called "the government". And Mr. Policeman is there to ENFORCE its authority.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Chuckle!!! It's called "the government". And Mr. Policeman is there to ENFORCE its authority.

Enforce? Police investigate CRIMES.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I accept anything you can prove from a KJV, taken in context, including your contention that Luke was not an elder of the 70 chosen in Luke 10. Apostles did have ruling authority. Following is a whole paragraph that I encourage you to read. It deals with apostolic authority and rule. I hope you will pay close attention.

2 Cor10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ’s, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ’s, even so are we Christ’s.
8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
12 ¶ For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
13 But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.
14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men’s labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, and not to boast in another man’s line of things made ready to our hand.
17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Consider this statement about the word of God;

Ro 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them (the Jew) were committed the oracles of God.

I think Luke was a Jew.

Pe 5:1Pe 5:1 ¶ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock

This is instructions to the elders who were among them, of which Peter includes himself, and who were eye witnesses of the suffering on the cross of Christ. He is not addressing the extent of their ministry but the character of it.

This teaches us that an apostle is an elder but an elder is not necessarily an apostle, unless he is a member of the 12. Remember, this letter is written in an actual historical time frame and must be considered in that context.

I accept anything you can prove from a KJV, taken in context, including your contention that Luke was not an elder of the 70 chosen in Luke 10. Apostles did have ruling authority. Following is a whole paragraph that I encourage you to read. It deals with apostolic authority and rule. I hope you will pay close attention.

2 Cor10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ’s, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ’s, even so are we Christ’s.
8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.
11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.
12 ¶ For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
13 But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you.
14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men’s labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, and not to boast in another man’s line of things made ready to our hand.
17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
18 For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.

Consider this statement about the word of God;

Ro 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them (the Jew) were committed the oracles of God.

I think Luke was a Jew.

Pe 5:1Pe 5:1 ¶ The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock

This is instructions to the elders who were among them, of which Peter includes himself, and who were eye witnesses of the suffering on the cross of Christ. He is not addressing the extent of their ministry but the character of it.

This teaches us that an apostle is an elder but an elder is not necessarily an apostle, unless he is a member of the 12. Remember, this letter is written in an actual historical time frame and must be considered in that context.

You can believe whatever you want to. You think Luke was a Jew. In my view he was a well but not ethnically. He is a Jew who is one inwardly. Luke circumcised in the heart.

As far as "rule". I see nothing about ruling anyone.

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Once I began understanding the Bible as a Spirit filled Christian, I suddenly realized I could believe and understand OT believers.
I could not do that before. I did not know what to make of it. As a Jew I used to think ancients like David and Moses were living in a more primitive state of mind that allowed them to believe in God as the Bible says they did. But it was just the opposite. Being regenerate accordingly, and living in those days with the Torah, made them more advanced thinking than the dead heads we have living amongst us today..

I can accept this to a degree.

What people need to understand is the large amounts of information were lost to history. The Torah is a limited retelling of many things that were lost. We talked about it the other day in a thread. The sons of Keturah were probably part of those who visited Jesus. They knew that light would lead them the Lord Jesus Christ to WORSHIP... Him.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The KJV has been used for over 400 yrs and billions have been saved with it and the preaching with it. Modern translations are recent and copyrighted. The KJV is public use. Anyone can rewrite it and they have. God has blessed the KJV and its been around the world with missionaries. I will only use the NKJV and KJV. There is a continuity of words that flow through the KJV. Programs have been written to mathematically divide the words with amazing results. I view it as God's word over most translations.

Many were saved using the Geneva Bible or the Bishops Bible or the DRB or Wycliffe or Webster or YLT. God's word isn't limited to your choice.

The KJV is copyrighted. Just not in the US. It is owned by the monarch of England.

I'm not sure why you are excluding important information from your determination.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Enforce? Police investigate CRIMES.

Real, or imagined (chuckle).

 

[Rockerduck]

Many were saved using the Geneva Bible or the Bishops Bible or the DRB or Wycliffe or Webster or YLT. God's word isn't limited to your choice.

The KJV is copyrighted. Just not in the US. It is owned by the monarch of England.

I'm not sure why you are excluding important information from your determination.

The KJV is not copyrighted. It predates all copyright laws. In the USA it is public domain. The Crown in England might claim it, but can't stand up in court. The Geneva and Bishops, and others were never as popular. It fact the KJV is the far and away best selling bible in the world.

 

[GeneZ]

The KJV is not copyrighted. It predates all copyright laws. In the USA it is public domain. The Crown in England might claim it, but can't stand up in court. The Geneva and Bishops, and others were never as popular. It fact the KJV is the far and away best selling bible in the world.

According to that logic of most popular?

By default that would make Catholicism the best church in the world...

Which goes to show you...

 

[Rockerduck]

According to that logic of most popular?

By default that would make Catholicism the best church in the world...

Which goes to show you...

Nope. The Body of Christ out does all church buildings and The body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

 

[GeneZ]

Nope. The Body of Christ out does all church buildings and The body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

I believe you missed my point...

 

[praise_yeshua]

The KJV is not copyrighted. It predates all copyright laws. In the USA it is public domain. The Crown in England might claim it, but can't stand up in court. The Geneva and Bishops, and others were never as popular. It fact the KJV is the far and away best selling bible in the world.

You're wrong. The Geneva Bible was so popular that King James banned the printing of the Geneva Bible and only authorized certain printers to create the KJV. The Geneva Bible was more popular. It wasn't till well into the late 19 century until the KJV became extremely popular. In fact, the Vulgate was extremely popular among Western Christians. Much more widely used than the KJV until the 20th century.

Don't believe every KJVOist website you find. The monarch has controlled the KJV in England it's entirely existence. You have no idea what you're saying. Cambridge and Oxford have long been the authorized editions allowed by the monarchy.