What is KJO ?

[praise_yeshua]

Read my post again. Paul tells you exactly what you should be doing in order to "fear the LORD".

Where is your updated definition?

I read the first time. It doesn't say what you claim to say.

I'm not a slave to anyone but Christ. Paul wasn't establishing slaves of some silly men in the church. Paul was establishing obedience to among those who were actually slaves in this world system.

 

[praise_yeshua]

History is funny so many times. Here is King James, a Scottish Calvinist/Presbyterian, allowing his KJV Bible to take precedence over the Geneva Bible that had strong roots in Calvinism. Goes to show you that his interests were heavily towards uniting his kingdom much like Emperor Constantine and the Nicene Council.

Definitely. The Calvinists were better translators. Not such much in other things...

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Where is your updated definition?

I read the first time. It doesn't say what you claim to say.

I'm not a slave to anyone but Christ. Paul wasn't establishing slaves of some silly men in the church. Paul was establishing obedience to among those who were actually slaves in this world system.

That is NOT what Paul says. Read it again - slowly this time. Understand every word. It should not be hard.

 

[synergy]

Definitely. The Calvinists were better translators. Not such much in other things...

They might be better "translators" of individual Greek words but they repeatedly stumble horribly when it comes to Biblical election, predestination, and when regeneration occurs.

 

[praise_yeshua]

They might be better "translators" of individual Greek words but they repeatedly stumble horribly when it comes to Biblical election, predestination, and when regeneration occurs.

As have those who had Greek as their primary language. We have issues brother. I realized one day that I was become what I hated in others by not recognizing our own frailty. Not saying you don't. Many of our brothers are mistaken. They need to see the severity of their mistakes but I realize that we are all going to regret just how wrong we are when we face God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That is NOT what Paul says. Read it again - slowly this time. Understand every word. It should not be hard.

I did. I understand what is says. Please detail how you believe I am wrong instead of just insisting I'm wrong.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That is NOT what Paul says. Read it again - slowly this time. Understand every word. It should not be hard.

When are you going to name my master after the flesh?

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

When are you going to name my master after the flesh?

I'm just not interested in pointless arguments. The actual words as quoted in the Bible are very clear. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm just not interested in pointless arguments. The actual words as quoted in the Bible are very clear. That's all I'm going to say.

Yes. They are very clear. Paul is referencing those that are actually enslaved among men.

I'm not. No one else is. Paul is not authorizing your "type" of slavery to another man. You know all those fake teachers running around claiming Hebrews 13:7 is talking about them?

Have you done this yourself?

 

[synergy]

As have those who had Greek as their primary language. We have issues brother. I realized one day that I was become what I hated in others by not recognizing our own frailty. Not saying you don't. Many of our brothers are mistaken. They need to see the severity of their mistakes but I realize that we are all going to regret just how wrong we are when we face God.

The problem with those who have Greek as their primary language is that the Bible stopped being an active part of their spiritual life when first Islam and then the Ottoman Empire swept through their lands like a wild fire. Because of that, the truths behind their church traditions were obscured and ended up being ritualized. I pray for a Bible revival in that part of the world when they can once again understand the Gospel and their traditions in a Biblical sense.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The problem with those who have Greek as their primary language is that the Bible stopped being an active part of their spiritual life when first Islam and then the Ottoman Empire swept through their lands like a wild fire. Because of that, the truths behind their church traditions were obscured and ended up being ritualized. I pray for a Bible revival in that part of the world when they can once again understand the Gospel and their traditions in a Biblical sense.

I think you are confused about actual history of that area. The Eastern Orthodox church was based on the Greek text New Testament. But that is NOT the oldest church tradition of that area. The Eastern Church was (and still is) based on the Syriac (Aramaic) text of the New Testament - the Peshitta. They never adopted Greek in their churches - ever. Not through 2000 years. Even though they had massive arguments and split into Nestorian, Jacobite and Maronite sects. There is much evidence that their Peshitta is actually much closer to if not the actual text of the original New Testament documents.

Here is the thread about the forgotten Gospels in Aramaic from 78 AD. The record of its existence is published in the official catalog of the Vatican Library.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-gospels-codex-from-78-ad-where-is-it.262/

 

[synergy]

I think you are confused about actual history of that area. The Eastern Orthodox church was based on the Greek text New Testament. But that is NOT the oldest church tradition of that area. The Eastern Church was (and still is) based on the Syriac (Aramaic) text of the New Testament - the Peshitta. They never adopted Greek in their churches - ever. Not through 2000 years. Even though they had massive arguments and split into Nestorian, Jacobite and Maronite sects. There is much evidence that their Peshitta is actually much closer to if not the actual text of the original New Testament documents.

Here is the thread about the forgotten Gospels in Aramaic from 78 AD. The record of its existence is published in the official catalog of the Vatican Library.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-gospels-codex-from-78-ad-where-is-it.262/

The Apostles deliberately wrote in Koine Greek because that was the Lingua Franca of the Eastern Roman Empire. Koine Greek was the way to reach not only the Gentiles but all the Hellenized Jews that were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. As for certain local areas and the far east portions of the Roman Empire, I agree that there were Aramaic, Syriac, and even Persian versions. Maybe that's why those regions were hot beds of Nestorianism and other heresies. And that nonsense gave rise to Islam.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think you are confused about actual history of that area. The Eastern Orthodox church was based on the Greek text New Testament. But that is NOT the oldest church tradition of that area. The Eastern Church was (and still is) based on the Syriac (Aramaic) text of the New Testament - the Peshitta. They never adopted Greek in their churches - ever. Not through 2000 years. Even though they had massive arguments and split into Nestorian, Jacobite and Maronite sects. There is much evidence that their Peshitta is actually much closer to if not the actual text of the original New Testament documents.

Here is the thread about the forgotten Gospels in Aramaic from 78 AD. The record of its existence is published in the official catalog of the Vatican Library.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-gospels-codex-from-78-ad-where-is-it.262/

Aramaic Gospels in 78 AD? Rubbish.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Apostles deliberately wrote in Koine Greek because that was the Lingua Franca of the Eastern Roman Empire. Koine Greek was the way to reach not only the Gentiles but all the Hellenized Jews that were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. As for certain local areas and the far east portions of the Roman Empire, I agree that there were Aramaic, Syriac, and even Persian versions. Maybe that's why those regions were hot beds of Nestorianism and other heresies. And that nonsense gave rise to Islam.

There is no reason to believe that these people didn't understand Greek. Koine is not that much different that the language of the LXX. They had long used the LXX.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

There is no reason to believe that these people didn't understand Greek. Koine is not that much different that the language of the LXX. They had long used the LXX.

Exactly!! The Septuagint is known to be stilted and awkward style. It is a translation. The Greek text of the New Testament has this same stilted and awkward style of Greek. Linguistically it shows itself to be a translation as well.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Aramaic Gospels in 78 AD? Rubbish.

Take it up with the Roman Catholics who published the evidence. On pain of excommunication and imprisonment.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The Apostles deliberately wrote in Koine Greek because that was the Lingua Franca of the Eastern Roman Empire. Koine Greek was the way to reach not only the Gentiles but all the Hellenized Jews that were dispersed throughout the Roman Empire. As for certain local areas and the far east portions of the Roman Empire, I agree that there were Aramaic, Syriac, and even Persian versions. Maybe that's why those regions were hot beds of Nestorianism and other heresies. And that nonsense gave rise to Islam.

A lot of those statements are not accurate historically. While Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire, the lingua franca of mesopotamia and the areas east of the Roman Empire was Aramaic. It had been since before 700 BC. The language of the jews both in the Judean homeland and the diaspora was Aramaic. The Jerusalem Talmud, the Babylonian Talmud, the targums - all written in Aramaic. The works of Josephus originally written in Aramaic before he spent a lot of effort translating it into Greek - something he talks about that none of his fellow country men ever spoke.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Exactly!! The Septuagint is known to be stilted and awkward style. It is a translation. The Greek text of the New Testament has this same stilted and awkward style of Greek. Linguistically it shows itself to be a translation as well.

Modern Hebrew is a translation. What is your point exactly? All you have are block script manuscripts no sooner than the 2nd century. The OT was not originally written in block script "Hebrew". You do have one thing right. Block script Hebrew has a Aramaic connection. They are relatives. It just doesn't have anything to do with a the original Hebrew language.

 

[praise_yeshua]

A lot of those statements are not accurate historically. While Greek was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire, the lingua franca of mesopotamia and the areas east of the Roman Empire was Aramaic. It had been since before 700 BC. The language of the jews both in the Judean homeland and the diaspora was Aramaic. The Jerusalem Talmud, the Babylonian Talmud, the targums - all written in Aramaic. The works of Josephus originally written in Aramaic before he spent a lot of effort translating it into Greek - something he talks about that none of his fellow country men ever spoke.

Really? What is your source to claim that Josephus wrote originally in Aramaic? Quote the exact original source. Not some commentary.

He wrote his first work in Aramaic. Get it right.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Modern Hebrew is a translation. What is your point exactly? All you have are block script manuscripts no sooner than the 2nd century. The OT was not originally written in block script "Hebrew". You do have one thing right. Block script Hebrew has a Aramaic connection. They are relatives. It just doesn't have anything to do with a the original Hebrew language.

Huh? What does that have to do with anything that's being discussed?