What is death? Is it the absence of life?

[jeremiah1five]

Quote a verse saying our physical bodies need salvation.

Thanks

One of several:

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is cthe Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and pthis mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 15:35–57.

 

[civic]

One of several:

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is cthe Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and pthis mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor. 15:35–57.

sótéria- salvation is used 46 times in the NT and not in the passage you quoted. In fact but never used the word in 1 Corinthians but several times in 2 Corinthians.

The 2 major passages in 1&2 Cor 15 and 2 Cor 5 where Paul discusses our new/ resurrection bodies he not once mentioned they need salvation.

As you would say :
“ the proof is in the pudding” and you have no proof. I on the other hand have disproved your presuppositions on salvation and the body.

hope this helps !!!

 

[jeremiah1five]

' In Whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in Whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Eph 1:13-14)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

I am looking through the lense of God's certainties thtrough which I am saved and sealed (Eph.1:13) until the day of redemption.

Praise His Holy Name!

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

The proof is in the pudding.

Since you are awaiting your redemption as the verse you quote above states this would include receiving a glorified body at a future date, a glorified body which you do not today possess. Until that day comes we are all partly saved and this is our hope that God save us at the last day. We place our faith on this promise of salvation, a salvation that requires our being saved totally, soul, body, and spirit.

 

[Complete]

The proof is in the pudding.

Since you are awaiting your redemption as the verse you quote above states this would include receiving a glorified body at a future date, a glorified body which you do not today possess. Until that day comes we are all partly saved and this is our hope that God save us at the last day. We place our faith on this promise of salvation, a salvation that requires our being saved totally, soul, body, and spirit.

'Being confident of this very thing,
that He which hath begun a good work in you
will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:'
(Php 1:6)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

Yes, I realise that we are God's workmanship, and the work that He has begun in us He will continue to do until the day of Christ: but the work of salvation is complete, and the end assured in Christ Jesus our Lord.

For He is Faithful that promised.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

'Being confident of this very thing,
that He which hath begun a good work in you
will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:'
(Php 1:6)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

Yes, I realise that we are God's workmanship, and the work that He has begun in us He will continue to do until the day of Christ: but the work of salvation is complete, and the end assured in Christ Jesus our Lord.

For He is Faithful that promised.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, but you're still avoiding the truth that we are partly saved and that when Christ returns, He is bringing the completion of our salvation which is to change our corrupt, dying body and make it incorruptible in the twinkle of His eye.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1 Cor. 15:50–56.

We are all still under the judgment of sin which is death. We die because of sin and God's judgment against sin.
As Christians we are not all glorified which is our victory over sin but until Christ returns, we exert and express faith to God that He will save us at the end on the last day. We are not saved today, and we express faith that God WILL (future-tense) save us when He comes back. This is the basis of our faith in Him. If we were completely saved, we would not die but we do die because we are not saved.

Or do you choose to stand against the truth and continue to ignore the truth and accept it?

If we are saved wholly body, soul, and human spirit then there would be no death and there would be no need for cemeteries.

 

[Complete]

Subject Heading:- What is death? Is it the absence of life?

Yes, but you're still avoiding the truth that we are partly saved and that when Christ returns, He is bringing the completion of our salvation which is to change our corrupt, dying body and make it incorruptible in the twinkle of His eye.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1 Cor. 15:50–56.

We are all still under the judgment of sin which is death. We die because of sin and God's judgment against sin.
As Christians we are not all glorified which is our victory over sin but until Christ returns, we exert and express faith to God that He will save us at the end on the last day. We are not saved today, and we express faith that God WILL (future-tense) save us when He comes back. This is the basis of our faith in Him. If we were completely saved, we would not die but we do die because we are not saved.

Or do you choose to stand against the truth and continue to ignore the truth and accept it?

If we are saved wholly body, soul, and human spirit then there would be no death and there would be no need for cemeteries.

Hello @jeremiah1five,

You are doing me a diservice, for I do not deny the truth, I rejoice in it. I rejoice that the work of salvation that the Lord Jesus Christ secured for us, is finished. The work is done, and it's outworking assured. Death will not have dominion over us, our resurrection is sure. We are saved and sealed until the day of redemption. We acknowledge this by faith. You are asking me to deny what I know to be true, simply to bow to your reasoning, which is looking through the eyes of the flesh, and not through faith.

This is enough,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

Subject Heading:- What is death? Is it the absence of life?

Hello @jeremiah1five,

You are doing me a diservice, for I do not deny the truth, I rejoice in it. I rejoice that the work of salvation that the Lord Jesus Christ secured for us, is finished. The work is done, and it's outworking assured. Death will not have dominion over us, our resurrection is sure. We are saved and sealed until the day of redemption. We acknowledge this by faith. You are asking me to deny what I know to be true, simply to bow to your reasoning, which is looking through the eyes of the flesh, and not through faith.

This is enough,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

"Death will not have dominion over us"?

Have your family send me your obituary when you die.

 

[Doug Brents]

"Death will not have dominion over us"?

Have your family send me your obituary when you die.

Everyone, even you, will die a physical death. There have only been two people in all the world who did not taste physical death: Enoch and Elijah.

The verse quoted by @Complete does not mean that we will not die a physical death. It is in reference to the second death, which is explained in Rev 21:8. Those who are in Christ need not fear the second death, because IT has no dominion over us. As Jesus said, "do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." We have no fear of him, because he has been defeated in Christ.

 

[Complete]

"Death will not have dominion over us"?

Have your family send me your obituary when you die.

'If ye then be risen with Christ,
seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead,
and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Col 3:1-4)

Praise God!

* This is what faith acknowledges, @jeremiah1five.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[jeremiah1five]

Everyone, even you, will die a physical death. There have only been two people in all the world who did not taste physical death: Enoch and Elijah.

The verse quoted by @Complete does not mean that we will not die a physical death. It is in reference to the second death, which is explained in Rev 21:8. Those who are in Christ need not fear the second death, because IT has no dominion over us. As Jesus said, "do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." We have no fear of him, because he has been defeated in Christ.

Matthew 10:28 refers to the unsaved.

Since the Garden the offspring of Adam and the woman were all born body and soul, no human spirit, which when born again God creates a new human spirit and His people are restored to a trichotomy, which when Adam and the woman who sinned died "in the day" they ate from the tree and disobeyed God. In this they became a dichotomy and the human spirit which died "in the day" they ate from the tree could not be passed on in their genes (DNA.) Only a three-part being (image of God) has eternal life. There are no three-part people in "hell."

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:23–24.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17.

The word "creature" is the word "created" and transliterated into Hebrew is "bara" (to create something out of nothing.)

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:22–23.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow (body) and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart (life) Heb 4:12.

 

[jeremiah1five]

'If ye then be risen with Christ,
seek those things which are above,
where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Set your affection on things above,
not on things on the earth.
For ye are dead,
and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Col 3:1-4)

Praise God!

* This is what faith acknowledges, @jeremiah1five.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

No matter. When Jesus returns, He's bringing the completion of our salvation. Until then we are all partly saved.

 

[Doug Brents]

Matthew 10:28 refers to the unsaved.

The reference to those who can kill the body but not the soul is to humans. We are not to fear humans (saved or damned), because while they can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.
But we are to fear (be wary of and respect, not be afraid of) Satan, for he can kill the soul in Hell for eternity.

Since the Garden the offspring of Adam and the woman were all born body and soul, no human spirit, which when born again God creates a new human spirit and His people are restored to a trichotomy, which when Adam and the woman who sinned died "in the day" they ate from the tree and disobeyed God. In this they became a dichotomy and the human spirit which died "in the day" they ate from the tree could not be passed on in their genes (DNA.) Only a three-part being (image of God) has eternal life. There are no three-part people in "hell."

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:23–24.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17.

The word "creature" is the word "created" and transliterated into Hebrew is "bara" (to create something out of nothing.)

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess. 5:22–23.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow (body) and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart (life) Heb 4:12.

That is an interesting way of looking at it. But we are not just a "trichotomy". We have a heart, mind, soul, and strength (body)(Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27) as Jesus quotes from Deut 6:4. The human spirit is the limited extension of God's Spirit that makes man a "living being". It is our a component of our mind, our reason, our heart, our intellect. From as far back as the giving of the Law, God acknowledged that man still retains these components. When we are saved, our spirit is brought back into union with God (resurrected). Just as a tree branch that is cut off from a tree still retains the appearance of life for a short time even though it has been cut from the source of its life (the tree), so we too retain the appearance of life even though our spirit is dead (has been cut off from God, the life-giving source). But if that branch is grafted into another tree before the appearance of life leaves it, it can be "resurrected" and given new life in the new tree. That is the analogy God paints in Rom 11 where He talks about us being cut from a wild tree and grafted into the living root of Abraham.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The reference to those who can kill the body but not the soul is to humans. We are not to fear humans (saved or damned), because while they can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul.

I understand that but I was referring to God who can do both.

But we are to fear (be wary of and respect, not be afraid of) Satan, for he can kill the soul in Hell for eternity.

Satan can do nothing to humans. Nothing at all. He and the rest of the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. I place their incarceration between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude:1:6.

And no, leaving their habitation is not taking human form and marrying human women and having children in Gen. 6.

Compare
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah 14:14–15.

But then you'll say Satan steals, kills, and destroys. But he can't do that while locked up and Christians have a tendency of giving Satan/Lucifer too much glory that he can steal from God. Steal from God? Really? No, no. SIN is the thief that steals, kills, and destroys, not any angel even if they were loose on the planet which they are not.

That is an interesting way of looking at it. But we are not just a "trichotomy". We have a heart, mind, soul, and strength (body)(Mark 12:30, Luke 10:27) as Jesus quotes from Deut 6:4. The human spirit is the limited extension of God's Spirit that makes man a "living being".

The soul is comprised of mind, intellect, senses, emotions, conscience, and will. All God did was animate what He formed from the dirt. Adam did not have the Holy Spirit and he and the woman were created sinful, that is, as the word is defined [sin] as "missing the mark." What is that "mark" missed? The glory of God for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE as per Isaiah. And since sin comes from sinner and not from holy or righteous or innocent, the man and woman were sinners before they ate from the forbidden tree. They added to God's Word when they added "neither shall ye touch it" (Prov. 30:6.)

It is our a component of our mind, our reason, our heart, our intellect. From as far back as the giving of the Law, God acknowledged that man still retains these components. When we are saved, our spirit is brought back into union with God (resurrected). Just as a tree branch that is cut off from a tree still retains the appearance of life for a short time even though it has been cut from the source of its life (the tree), so we too retain the appearance of life even though our spirit is dead (has been cut off from God, the life-giving source). But if that branch is grafted into another tree before the appearance of life leaves it, it can be "resurrected" and given new life in the new tree. That is the analogy God paints in Rom 11 where He talks about us being cut from a wild tree and grafted into the living root of Abraham.

You can't compare Adam to a tree. Compare him to the last Adam (1 Cor. 15) Jesus Christ. One was a sinner, the other Holy, etc.

There is no Scripture in all of the bible where God calls non-Hebrew Gentiles an Olive tree. Israel is the Olive tree, the natural Olive tree who became spiritual Olive tree on the Day of the Feast of Harvests (Pentecost) when three thousand Jews became spiritually born-again. The disobedient Olive tree branches are grafted back in again, not Gentiles.
You spiritualize where it should be literal. All Scripture is literal unless the context is spiritual. Don't be too spiritual-minded that you're no earthly good.

God created man body, soul, human spirit - not Holy Spirit. When man sinned his human spirit died "in the day" he ate from the tree and became two-parts: body and soul. When one becomes born again God creates a new human spirit in the person and they are restored to the image of God - trichotomy. The human spirit allows the believer to process spiritual phenomenon as well as communicate with God on His level who is Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

I understand that but I was referring to God who can do both.

God does not kill the soul. He allows it to be killed by Satan, but He does not do the killing. The one He is talking about that is able to kill both body and soul is Satan, not God.

Satan can do nothing to humans. Nothing at all. He and the rest of the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. I place their incarceration between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude:1:6.

So then, Job must have occurred before Gen 2? For it is Satan, the mightiest and greatest and wisest of all of God's angels who was free to come and go from Heaven with the the angels still loyal to God.

But then you'll say Satan steals, kills, and destroys. But he can't do that while locked up and Christians have a tendency of giving Satan/Lucifer too much glory that he can steal from God. Steal from God? Really? No, no. SIN is the thief that steals, kills, and destroys, not any angel even if they were loose on the planet which they are not.

The Devil, also called Satan, and Lucifer, and the Dragon, and other names, is indeed the roaring lion who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy; or are you saying that God lied when He told Peter to write that?

The soul is comprised of mind, intellect, senses, emotions, conscience, and will. All God did was animate what He formed from the dirt. Adam did not have the Holy Spirit and he and the woman were created sinful, that is, as the word is defined [sin] as "missing the mark."

No, Adam and Eve were not created sinful. They did not become sinful until they sinned in eating of the Tree from which they were commanded not to eat. That was the day death entered into the world, and the day that they ceased to walk with God.

What is that "mark" missed? The glory of God for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE as per Isaiah. And since sin comes from sinner and not from holy or righteous or innocent, the man and woman were sinners before they ate from the forbidden tree. They added to God's Word when they added "neither shall ye touch it" (Prov. 30:6.)

Sin comes from violation of God's command. Adam and Eve were righteous before God until they chose to break His command and eat from the Tree. No, it is not recorded that God told Adam or Eve not to touch the tree. There are many possibilities as to why Eve added that to what she told the serpent (Satan), but the whole discussion is totally irrelevant. They not only touched, but ate the fruit, and so sin entered into the world.

You can't compare Adam to a tree. Compare him to the last Adam (1 Cor. 15) Jesus Christ. One was a sinner, the other Holy, etc.

I did not compare Adam to a tree. And he does not compare to the last Adam, but is contrasted to Him by God. Go back and reread what I posted, and give it another go.

There is no Scripture in all of the bible where God calls non-Hebrew Gentiles an Olive tree. Israel is the Olive tree, the natural Olive tree who became spiritual Olive tree on the Day of the Feast of Harvests (Pentecost) when three thousand Jews became spiritually born-again. The disobedient Olive tree branches are grafted back in again, not Gentiles.

Ahh, the disobedient branches CAN BE grafted back in, but only if they do not continue in their unbelief. But the branches cut from a wild olive tree are the Gentiles who come to believe in Jesus. I know you don't believe that, and I know you don't want to believe that, but it is the truth.

God created man body, soul, human spirit - not Holy Spirit.

Correct.

When man sinned his human spirit died "in the day" he ate from the tree and became two-parts: body and soul.

His spirit died (was cut off from communion with God), but it did not cease to exist nor did it fail to be kindled in each and every one of their offspring.

When one becomes born again God creates a new human spirit in the person and they are restored to the image of God - trichotomy. The human spirit allows the believer to process spiritual phenomenon as well as communicate with God on His level who is Spirit.

I could agree with you if what you say agreed with what we find in the Old Testament Scriptures. But it does not. Mankind had a spirit all through the OT, and even the lost still retain a spirit today. It is cut off from God (dead) until they turn to Jesus and are reborn and their spirit is resurrected, but it still exists.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God does not kill the soul. He allows it to be killed by Satan, but He does not do the killing. The one He is talking about that is able to kill both body and soul is Satan, not God.

Satan isn't mentioned in Matthew 10:28. You're adding to the bible.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28.

It says God 'is able' to destroy both soul and body. The word "destroy" means just that: destroy.

So then, Job must have occurred before Gen 2? For it is Satan, the mightiest and greatest and wisest of all of God's angels who was free to come and go from Heaven with the the angels still loyal to God.

Listen to you. "Mightiest and Greatest"? Is that how you see Lucifer?
Lucifer and all the angels that sinned - and the obedient ones, too - are ALL obedient servants of God.
God is Sovereign, not His created angels. You are giving me the Constantinian Gentile teaching that is textbook and contradicts God Himself. You are infected with 1900 years of Gentile error. Let the Word of God tell you what to believe; don't tell the Word of God what to say.

The Devil, also called Satan, and Lucifer, and the Dragon, and other names, is indeed the roaring lion who seeks to steal, kill, and destroy; or are you saying that God lied when He told Peter to write that?

It's your interpretation of adjectives ("devil") that you try to make into a noun that is the problem. That's bad grammar. And bad hermeneutics. And "Satan"? The word means "adversary" and it is also used in the bible to describe people.

No, Adam and Eve were not created sinful. They did not become sinful until they sinned in eating of the Tree from which they were commanded not to eat. That was the day death entered into the world, and the day that they ceased to walk with God.

Your interpretation on the created make-up of man is in error and contradicts Isaiah who said,
"There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE."

This means man was created fallen short of the glory of God. Adam possessed NONE of God's Deific Attributes. He wasn't eternal which means he was created fallen short of the glory of God. Adam was not sinless for Sinlessness is the Nature of God. Adam was not holy for Holiness is the Nature of God and God does not copy, reduplicate, share, or give His glory of Eternalness, or of Sinlessness, or of Holiness to created matter because God does not share His glory. Thus, man was created fallen short of the glory of God. IF Adam possessed even ONE Deific Attribute or Nature of God he would by necessity MUST possess ALL the Deific Attributes or Nature of God or he falls short of God's glory.
Only ONE Person can stand before a Eternal, Sinless, Holy God and that is the Eternal, Sinless, Holy Son. Everything and everyone else falls short of God's glory. The word for that is "SIN" and it means "missing the mark" (as in archery). What is the "mark" or standard man "missed"?
The glory of God.

Sin comes from violation of God's command. Adam and Eve were righteous before God until they chose to break His command and eat from the Tree. No, it is not recorded that God told Adam or Eve not to touch the tree. There are many possibilities as to why Eve added that to what she told the serpent (Satan), but the whole discussion is totally irrelevant. They not only touched, but ate the fruit, and so sin entered into the world.

The word "sin" means to "miss the mark." Learn to define words. The bible is written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, with a little Chaldee in there. Learn definitions. Learn history. Learn culture of the Hebrews as well as the politics. Even topography is supposed to be learned. There's a reason what it says, "Jesus went UP or DOWN to Jericho," etc., in interpreting the bible. It refers to sea level.

His spirit died (was cut off from communion with God), but it did not cease to exist nor did it fail to be kindled in each and every one of their offspring.

No, it died, and the communication was changed after that. If God says "thou shalt SURELY DIE" then it means DEATH. His human spirit DIED and the communication between God and Adam changed.

I could agree with you if what you say agreed with what we find in the Old Testament Scriptures. But it does not. Mankind had a spirit all through the OT, and even the lost still retain a spirit today. It is cut off from God (dead) until they turn to Jesus and are reborn and their spirit is resurrected, but it still exists.

Are you a JW? You sound like it. Or Mormon. Are you Mormon? They like to change God's Word, too, so stop it.

 

[Doug Brents]

Satan isn't mentioned in Matthew 10:28. You're adding to the bible.

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28.

It says God 'is able' to destroy both soul and body. The word "destroy" means just that: destroy.

Listen to you. "Mightiest and Greatest"? Is that how you see Lucifer?
Lucifer and all the angels that sinned - and the obedient ones, too - are ALL obedient servants of God.
God is Sovereign, not His created angels. You are giving me the Constantinian Gentile teaching that is textbook and contradicts God Himself. You are infected with 1900 years of Gentile error. Let the Word of God tell you what to believe; don't tell the Word of God what to say.

It's your interpretation of adjectives ("devil") that you try to make into a noun that is the problem. That's bad grammar. And bad hermeneutics. And "Satan"? The word means "adversary" and it is also used in the bible to describe people.

Your interpretation on the created make-up of man is in error and contradicts Isaiah who said,
"There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE."

This means man was created fallen short of the glory of God. Adam possessed NONE of God's Deific Attributes. He wasn't eternal which means he was created fallen short of the glory of God. Adam was not sinless for Sinlessness is the Nature of God. Adam was not holy for Holiness is the Nature of God and God does not copy, reduplicate, share, or give His glory of Eternalness, or of Sinlessness, or of Holiness to created matter because God does not share His glory. Thus, man was created fallen short of the glory of God. IF Adam possessed even ONE Deific Attribute or Nature of God he would by necessity MUST possess ALL the Deific Attributes or Nature of God or he falls short of God's glory.
Only ONE Person can stand before a Eternal, Sinless, Holy God and that is the Eternal, Sinless, Holy Son. Everything and everyone else falls short of God's glory. The word for that is "SIN" and it means "missing the mark" (as in archery). What is the "mark" or standard man "missed"?
The glory of God.

The word "sin" means to "miss the mark." Learn to define words. The bible is written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, with a little Chaldee in there. Learn definitions. Learn history. Learn culture of the Hebrews as well as the politics. Even topography is supposed to be learned. There's a reason what it says, "Jesus went UP or DOWN to Jericho," etc., in interpreting the bible. It refers to sea level.

No, it died, and the communication was changed after that. If God says "thou shalt SURELY DIE" then it means DEATH. His human spirit DIED and the communication between God and Adam changed.

Are you a JW? You sound like it. Or Mormon. Are you Mormon? They like to change God's Word, too, so stop it.

Satan was the greatest, wisest, and most powerful of God's angels. He was created as a guardian cherub and placed in the Garden to protect God's most precious creation: Man (Eze 28:11-19).
Just as Satan was created perfect, and then became corrupted (Eze 28:15), so too man was created perfect and sinless, and fell from perfection when Satan tempted Adam and Eve to break the only rule God had given them.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Satan was the greatest, wisest, and most powerful of God's angels. He was created as a guardian cherub and placed in the Garden to protect God's most precious creation: Man (Eze 28:11-19).

First, Michael is greater than Satan.
Second, Satan didn't guard man, he guarded the Lord's throne on earth. He is the outstretched angel that covereth (the Lord's throne. The stones of fire are before the Lord not man.

Just as Satan was created perfect, and then became corrupted (Eze 28:15), so too man was created perfect and sinless, and fell from perfection when Satan tempted Adam and Eve to break the only rule God had given them.

The word "perfect" means "complete" or "finished." This fits nicely with regard to man when he was created. The Lord said, "It is good" (meaning "completed," "finished," and "to specification."

Next, Satan didn't tempt the woman. He and his buddies that sinned were locked up before the Garden incident. Your belief also violates and breaks Scripture. The Lord says we are tempted FROM WITHIN.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

Here is the mechanism:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Gen. 3:6.

Jesus was tempted the same way: FROM WITHIN.

I'd say you need to study your bible more. Only make sure it's a good translation, like the Authorized Version.

 

[civic]

First, Michael is greater than Satan.
Second, Satan didn't guard man, he guarded the Lord's throne on earth. He is the outstretched angel that covereth (the Lord's throne. The stones of fire are before the Lord not man.

The word "perfect" means "complete" or "finished." This fits nicely with regard to man when he was created. The Lord said, "It is good" (meaning "completed," "finished," and "to specification."

Next, Satan didn't tempt the woman. He and his buddies that sinned were locked up before the Garden incident. Your belief also violates and breaks Scripture. The Lord says we are tempted FROM WITHIN.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

Here is the mechanism:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Gen. 3:6.

Jesus was tempted the same way: FROM WITHIN.

I'd say you need to study your bible more. Only make sure it's a good translation, like the Authorized Version.

Who or what tempted them in the garden that is referred to as the serpent ?

 

[Doug Brents]

First, Michael is greater than Satan.

No, neither Michael, Gabriel, nor any other angel is greater than Satan. Satan was the wisest, most beautiful, most powerful of all of God's creations.

Second, Satan didn't guard man, he guarded the Lord's throne on earth. He is the outstretched angel that covereth (the Lord's throne. The stones of fire are before the Lord not man.

He was placed as a guardian in the Garden, where God placed Him. Yes, he is an outstretched angel that covers, but it does not say what. The only thing in the Garden that might possibly have needed covering was man. The throne of the Lord needs no angel to guard it. God sits on it, and He is mightier than anything else; there is none created or not created that is greater than He.

The word "perfect" means "complete" or "finished." This fits nicely with regard to man when he was created. The Lord said, "It is good" (meaning "completed," "finished," and "to specification."

Next, Satan didn't tempt the woman. He and his buddies that sinned were locked up before the Garden incident. Your belief also violates and breaks Scripture. The Lord says we are tempted FROM WITHIN.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

Man was sinless before he ate of the Fruit. Man, because he is fallen, has a perverted spirit, and an inborn desire for evil, thus we are drawn away by our own lusts. But Adam and Eve were not yet fallen. They did not yet have perverted spirits. They had alive, intact, Godly spirits up until they ate of the Fruit.

Jesus was tempted the same way: FROM WITHIN.

Jesus was tempted by Satan directly, not just from within Himself.

I'd say you need to study your bible more. Only make sure it's a good translation, like the Authorized Version.

Do you mean the KJV? I find it tolerable, but I prefer the NASB or the ESV. When studying, I use all three, and sometimes refer to several others as well to compare them.

 

[civic]

First, Michael is greater than Satan.
Second, Satan didn't guard man, he guarded the Lord's throne on earth. He is the outstretched angel that covereth (the Lord's throne. The stones of fire are before the Lord not man.

The word "perfect" means "complete" or "finished." This fits nicely with regard to man when he was created. The Lord said, "It is good" (meaning "completed," "finished," and "to specification."

Next, Satan didn't tempt the woman. He and his buddies that sinned were locked up before the Garden incident. Your belief also violates and breaks Scripture. The Lord says we are tempted FROM WITHIN.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

Here is the mechanism:

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Gen. 3:6.

Jesus was tempted the same way: FROM WITHIN.

I'd say you need to study your bible more. Only make sure it's a good translation, like the Authorized Version.

Jesus was not tempted from within no made than the Father could be tempted from within. The Son is impeccable just like the Father. Fully God lacking nothing in His Divine nature means Impeccable.