jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Death is a door that swings both ways.
What is death? Is it the absence of life?
- Thread starter Complete
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Complete
Well-known member
Hello @jeremiah1five, 
That sounds very profound: what is it;s intended meaning?
Death does not swing in any direction, because of itself, it lacks animation, being lifeless..
It is the breath of life (i.e., spirit) which leaves and goes back to God Who gave it, leaving behind it's empty shell, which goes back to the dust from whence it came.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
That sounds very profound: what is it;s intended meaning?
Death does not swing in any direction, because of itself, it lacks animation, being lifeless..
It is the breath of life (i.e., spirit) which leaves and goes back to God Who gave it, leaving behind it's empty shell, which goes back to the dust from whence it came.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
When Christ returns, He's bringing something with Him: the completion of our salvation.Hello @jeremiah1five,
That sounds very profound: what is it;s intended meaning?
Death does not swing in any direction, because of itself, it lacks animation, being lifeless..
It is the breath of life (i.e., spirit) which leaves and goes back to God Who gave it, leaving behind it's empty shell, which goes back to the dust from whence it came.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
We are merely one-third saved - a newly created human spirit when we are born-again.
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:23–24.
Before this new birth we are merely body and soul, no human spirit.
It harkens back to the Garden. What died "in the day" they ate of the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil?
Their human spirit died. From a trichotomy of body, soul, human spirit, something died "in the day" they ate from the tree. Their soul didn't die. Their body didn't die "in the day." Their human spirit died "in the day" they ate from the tree, and from that day forward children are born body and soul, no human spirit and since they are natural man did not have a human spirit to pass on to their children (offspring), and so everyone is born into the world body and soul. If there is no new birth, then they die body and soul - no human spirit (dichotomy) - and are cast into hell:
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28.
A two-fold being who dies without salvation is cast into hell. But a born-again person is restored to a three-fold being BY FAITH - and live in a three-fold image of God:
Father = soul.
Son = body.
Holy Spirit = human spirit.
We are all born into the world body and soul, no human spirit.
When we are born again God creates a new human spirit in the believer, but their soul and body remain unchanged and in the process of time die body and soul with a human spirit.
There is no time when a person dies. In death (cessation of life and living) our bodies are placed in a grave and on this side of eternity we who are alive remain and go through a succession of days, weeks, and years until we die, or Christ returns and in this returning our bodies are changed, corruption puts on incorruption, etc.
Jesus, saying He gives life and life abundantly refers to quality of life.
But when a person dies, they may be in the grave for a period of time in our perspective in time, but from God's eternal perspective we all stand before the judgment seat of Christ the moment we die. So, in this sense when we are absent from the body, we are with Christ is seen from the perspective of God, not from our perspective in time.
So, from our perspective death is a door that swings both ways and that from our perspective in time we will suffer the punishment for sin, and we die but death swings heaven-ward, yet we remain in the grave as death is earth-ward until Christ returns and we are changed in the twinkle of His eye.
Ya falla?
Complete
Well-known member
Forum category:- Christian Apologetics
Subject Heading:- What is death? Is it the absence of life?
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)
'The Spirit of God hath made me,
and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.'
(Job 33:4)
'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.'
(Ecc 12:7)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
You speak of death as a doorway, but to my knowledge the Bible gives us no justification for considering it to be so. It is the absence of 'the breath of life' (ie., spirit) which marks the human body as dead. ' The breath of life' (i.e., spirit) goes back to God who gave it,, and man ceases to be a living soul. It goes back to the dust from whence it came.
Praise God! He has given to the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ the promise of life, eternal life, in Him: which we will enter into at the resurrection, for it is then that we will be clothed upon by life (2 Cor. 5:4). For Christ Jesus our risen Lord is a quickening (life giving) spirit.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Subject Heading:- What is death? Is it the absence of life?
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)
'The Spirit of God hath made me,
and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.'
(Job 33:4)
'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.'
(Ecc 12:7)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
You speak of death as a doorway, but to my knowledge the Bible gives us no justification for considering it to be so. It is the absence of 'the breath of life' (ie., spirit) which marks the human body as dead. ' The breath of life' (i.e., spirit) goes back to God who gave it,, and man ceases to be a living soul. It goes back to the dust from whence it came.
Praise God! He has given to the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ the promise of life, eternal life, in Him: which we will enter into at the resurrection, for it is then that we will be clothed upon by life (2 Cor. 5:4). For Christ Jesus our risen Lord is a quickening (life giving) spirit.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
If it is the absence of life, then this means soul-death as you said, and this is unbiblical.
You are confusing the animating breath of God that goes back to Him at death of one of His saints.
From God's eternal perspective the end has come, everything has been said and done, and those whose names are in the book of life are with God and the Great White Throne judgment is past. From God's perspective. Saul understood this, which is why he said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. But in what form? There is no body because we are absent from it in death. That's what you're saying but it is wrong.
We live and move about in the dispensation of Time. When we die, we enter eternity. We enter God's perspective of eternity which is Himself. The earth is not eternal. Heaven is not eternal. God is. But then we return with Christ as a great cloud of witnesses and are His saints. You missed this.
When we die death is a doorway to enter the next life or existence. But then when the trumpet blows, and Christ returns the doorway opens the other way and we are joined to our body which has been changed in the twinkle of His eye.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @jeremiah1five,
1) The soul of man is the whole person energised by life, this is Biblical: For God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and he became a living soul.
2) At death the breath of life (or 'spirit') of all men returns to God who gave it.
3) Yes, the body has to die,, or be changed from mortal to immortal at the coming of Christ: for flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). The soul of man is not immortal it can die (Ezekiel 18:20).
4) You refer to 2 Cor. 5:8:- 'We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.' Yes Paul was very much willing for that, because that would mean that Christ had retuned: and Paul himself would not have had to experience the 'unclothed' state of death that he refers to in (2 Cor. 5:8): but would be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye, and ascend to be with the Lord. This was the abiding hope of the believer during the period covered by the book of the Acts of the Apostles. and epressed in the epistles written during that time. It was contingent upon Israel (as a nation) coming to repentance:-
'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come
from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
which before was preached unto you:'
(Act 3:19-20)
5) God reckons the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ to have died with Christ, been buried, quickened and raised with Christ, this is God;s reckoning of faith, in the spirit.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
But until the twinkling of an eye we are all one-third saved, not totally saved.
Salvation of an individual is past, present, and future. We are trusting God to save us totally and that is the journey.
When one is born again what has changed? We are still in this body of this death are we not? Our soul is still unregenerated, is it not? But what has changed when we meet Jesus? Only one thing. God creates a new human spirit in us (Eph. 4:24.) But our body and soul remain unaffected. Your body is dying daily. Your soul is still earthy and of the earth. Your thoughts are not pure even though we are instructed and commanded to dwell on things of good report we still fall short as we await our redemption. Thus, we are only one-third saved.
Complete
Well-known member
Subject Hesding:- What is death? Is it the absence of life?
'For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
.. And ye are complete in Him,
.... which is the head of all principality and power:
In Whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
.. in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
.... Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him
...... through the faith of the operation of God,
........ Who hath raised Him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
.. hath He quickened together with Him,
.... having forgiven you all trespasses;
...... Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us,
........ and took it out of the way,
.......... nailing it to His cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers,
.. He made a shew of them openly,
.... triumphing over them in it.'
(Col 2:9-15)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
The Scriptures tell me that I am complete in Christ. There is no suggestion that I am only partly saved. Oh No!
* I see what you are saying: but you must forgive me, for I will reckon as God reckons, and in His eyes I have aleady been raised with Christ, in spirit, my flesh counts for nothing.
'... Nevertheless I am continually with thee: Thou hast holden me by my right hand.
Thou shalt guide me with Thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but Thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside Thee.
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
For, lo, they that are far from Thee shall perish: Thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from Thee.
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all Thy works.
Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.
Thou shalt guide me with Thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but Thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside Thee.
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
For, lo, they that are far from Thee shall perish: Thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from Thee.
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all Thy works.'
(Psalm 73:23-28)
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
.. And ye are complete in Him,
.... which is the head of all principality and power:
In Whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
.. in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
.... Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him
...... through the faith of the operation of God,
........ Who hath raised Him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
.. hath He quickened together with Him,
.... having forgiven you all trespasses;
...... Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us,
........ and took it out of the way,
.......... nailing it to His cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers,
.. He made a shew of them openly,
.... triumphing over them in it.'
(Col 2:9-15)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
The Scriptures tell me that I am complete in Christ. There is no suggestion that I am only partly saved. Oh No!
* I see what you are saying: but you must forgive me, for I will reckon as God reckons, and in His eyes I have aleady been raised with Christ, in spirit, my flesh counts for nothing.
'... Nevertheless I am continually with thee: Thou hast holden me by my right hand.
Thou shalt guide me with Thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but Thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside Thee.
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
For, lo, they that are far from Thee shall perish: Thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from Thee.
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all Thy works.
Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.
Thou shalt guide me with Thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but Thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside Thee.
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
For, lo, they that are far from Thee shall perish: Thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from Thee.
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all Thy works.'
(Psalm 73:23-28)
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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civic
Well-known member
Correct there is a past, present and future aspect of our salvation and as Paul says God has given us a down payment, a guarantee of our salvation , the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13-14 cf being sealed 2 Corinthians 1:22.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Question: Do you have a glorified body?
Answer: No.
Conclusion: You are partly saved. Your body still needs to be redeemed.
End of story. Stop lying to yourself.
The soul is comprised of the mind, intellect, senses, emotions, conscience and will. Your mind has not been made incorruptible as we all still have sinful thoughts whether they are anger, envy, lust, jealousy, etc., and this means the soul (mind) needs to be made incorruptible.
Didn't Saul cry "Who shall save me from this BODY of this death?"
In our present dispensation in time, we all still have a carnal mind that is not completely and totally submitted to God. Neither indeed can be.
So, both soul and body are still under the effects of sin which means we are all who are saved PARTLY saved.
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Complete
Well-known member
'For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time
are not worthy to be compared
with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
For the earnest expectation of the creature
waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.'
(Rom 8:18-19)
'Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with Him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.
For in that He died,
He died unto sin once:
but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(Rom 6:8-11)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
I am simply believing what God has said and living by faith in His word.
I walk by faith and not by sight, which is the will of God for me. (2 Cor, 5:7).
Endeavouring to reckon as He reckons. which is by faith.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
in Christ Jesus
Chris
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Respond to what I said.
You do not have a glorified body which means you are partly saved.
There has not been any bodily change from corruption to incorruption and one day you will die from the effects of sin which means you are partly saved.
No one is actually saved. We exercise faith that when Jesus returns, He will save us.
But our present condition right now is that one day He will change our bodies from corruption to incorruption and save our soul.
But He hasn't done that yet.
You do not have a glorified body and this means you are partly saved. All you have is an unction, a down payment, the Holy Spirit dwelling in your body of death and He can do this while HOLY because of the blood of Christ.
You do not have a glorified body which means you are partly saved.
civic
Well-known member
Our bodies don’t need saving our souls need saving. Our bodies get redeemed in the resurrection but we are already saved prior to the resurrection of the saints.
Rom 8:23
New International Version
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Our bodies do indeed need saving. We are still under the judgment for sin which is death.
If the Lord tarries we will all die under that judgment.
Complete
Well-known member
'What shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into His death?
Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead
by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with Him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.'
(Rom 6:1-9)
* God has said it, I believe it,
Praise His Holy Name!
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into His death?
Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead
by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death,
we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ,
we believe that we shall also live with Him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.'
(Rom 6:1-9)
* God has said it, I believe it,
Praise His Holy Name!
Complete
Well-known member
Hi there @jeremiah1five,
I am in no illusion concerning my present state, I am living in a body of humiliation, as Christ was during His lifetime, (yet without sin), and I will go the way of all flesh, I know: but I have a living hope in Christ Jesus of a resurrection out from among the dead; so choose to keep my mind stayed upon Him and what He has achieved for me, for in Him is where my hope lies.
Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Yes. He said your body is not yet saved. Thus, you are partly saved.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1 Co 15:50–56.
The LAST enemy is death. This enemy has not yet been conquered because we all still die and we keep setting land aside for cemeteries.
The last trumpet has not sounded and so we all still die because of the judgment for our sin which is death.
You do not yet have an incorruptible, glorified body and this means you are partly saved.
You're not even saved at all today, but you exercise faith that when the last trumpet is blown that He will change you and save you. That's what you exercise faith towards. Every Christian that believes themselves saved does this. They claim today a saving they hope and have faith towards that will happen at the end - whether Jesus comes or He tarries.
But by having the Holy Spirit dwelling in your corrupt soul and body is evidence that you will be saved at the end.
Until then, you are partly saved and the only thing about you that is saved and redeemed is the human spirit created new by God (Eph. 4:24) when He intervened in your life to "save" you. Our salvation is the future, not today. YOU THINK you are saved but you are not because if you were completely saved - body, soul, human spirit - then there would be no need to raise your corruption into incorruption and you would right now have a glorified body that will never taste death.
Do you have such a body?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Great. But the question has been answered. You are partly saved.
civic
Well-known member
Complete
Well-known member
' In Whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in Whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Eph 1:13-14)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
I am looking through the lense of God's certainties thtrough which I am saved and sealed (Eph.1:13) until the day of redemption.
Praise His Holy Name!
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
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