koberstein
Active member
Remember you are dealing with a cult.
Don't be decieved.
What do JW's Believe ?
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Don't be decieved.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
TibiasDad
Well-known member
I am not going to be; I’ve been dealing with JWs since 1986 when they knocked on my door for the first time. They don’t know how to exegete a passage in its context.
Doug
The physical coming is here at Rev 19:11=Gods day of anger. Rev 6:2= the presence.
YHVH(Jehovah) = the Father only.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
“Being” means to exist, thus, a being is something that exists. A human being is a particular type of existence; God is also a particular type of being; unique among all others, most particularly in that to be God in nature is to be uncreated, eternal in existence.
Thus, any person that is evidenced to be exiting in eternity past, then that person is, by definition, necessarily God, much as each person that possesses the “image of God” is human by definition.
Doug
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TibiasDad
Well-known member
All beings were created except for the Father.
koberstein
Active member
I had a bad experience with them years ago in Houston. They wouldn't stop talking and listen when I told them to get off my property.
I called HPD Houston Police Department to have them bodily removed. These people are not very intelligent.
Shalom
We are taught-EVERY utterance from God= more valuable than gold. There is no better wisdom. The blind cannot see it. Jesus said we would be hated.
Every Israelite knew 100% the Messiah has a God-Psalm 45:7--- Thus Thomas probably looked to heaven saying My God. He said my Lord to Jesus. As does Paul at 1 Cor 8:5-6--Where he warns all, that all other gods are false then tells all who the only true God is= only the Father as God and Jesus as Lord.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
The Bible says that the Word, Christ, Jesus is the creator: “all things are created by him, and without him nothing that has been made was made” (John 1:3)
“The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (Col 1:15-17)
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. (Heb 1:1-3)
John’s prelude in his gospel states unambiguously that “In the beginning (that is before any creation began) was the Word (ie, the Word existed) and the Word was with God (ie, the Word was present and in the company with the Father) and the Word was God (in the context of the beginning and of being with the Father). The same (Word) was in the beginning with God. ( A repetitive statement for emphasis of his meaning and intent of the previous clause.)
Doug
TibiasDad
Well-known member
The Greek construction of that verse will not support your argument. “Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου”, has no dividing punctuation to distinguish between the two aspects. There is only one person to whom Thomas was speaking according to John, and that was Jesus.
Moreover, a Jewish man were never utter the name in such a way, for that would be misusing the name of God, which was punishable by death.
Added to this, is the fact that Yahweh was also their only Lord. Yahweh was both the only God and the only Lord to every Jew!
Your interpretation is impossible from a linguistic perspective and a religious and cultural perspective.
Doug
koberstein
Active member
Amen
It does say that in your altered translations. Created THROUGH him, means 100% another did the creating=His God and Father.= Jehovah. Gen 1:27--HE( NOT WE) did the creating. Prov 8=HE(NOT WE) did the creating.
Jehovah is called sovereign Lord. Jesus never is. The all capitol-LORD in the OT does not belong there, Gods will = YHWH or YHVH belongs there. So the question needing to be asked is-Why is my religion going against Gods will by using altered translations. Gods name removed by wicked men by satans will to mislead all using those translations. Only the wicked fear using Gods name. The righteous run to that name and share it just as Jesus did( John 17:6,26)--Its why in the Lords prayer Jesus showed his Fathers name is the #1 issue for all.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
The Greek is διά, which with the genitive means that the Word is the immediate means through which something happens or is done.
The genitive means that the subject to which it is applied is the ‘owner’ of the action; thus, the Word is the owner of the act of creation. This is why the emphatic tag of “without him” is made.
The Father makes the Son, the Word, the instrument through which and by which the creation comes to be. And this is not just calling the Word the instrument or tool in the hands of another, for we do not praise the ‘hammer’ for the house being built, but the actual builder. The Word is praised, not the Father, as the builder.
Finally, the Word was necessarily already existent before creation if he is the means through which/by which creation is accomplished.
Doug
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TibiasDad
Well-known member
In the first place, you do realize that the “and” in the middle of the clause connects the second clause to the first. The only possible way to interpret this is that whoever is the Lord in the first clause is also the God of the second clause.
Secondly, Kurios, is the Greek word used in the LXX to represent Yahweh in the OT. The use of all Caps was used to distinguish the use of the Tetragrammaton but that is not necessary in the Greek. The capital ‘L’ is all that is needed. I would remind you of Jude’s definitive declaration of Jesus as “Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”
Finally, you should have realized that I didn’t quote any translation, but only cited the Greek itself. Moreover, I didn’t refer to the translation itself, but rather the grammar that defines the translation. Nobody fears using the Name. We use it of all who are worthy! “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive honor and glory and power”!
Doug
koberstein
Active member
Baruch Hashem Adonai
TibiasDad
Well-known member
koberstein
Active member
Yes!!!
