What do JW's Believe ?

[TibiasDad]

Rev 64)=1914--Peace will be taken from the earth-earth does not describe a single war but a world war=ww1--Millions slaughtered

Rev 6:4Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

This could describe any war, global or otherwise.

-satan and his angels cast down to the earth,

Yes, long before the creation of man!

he came angry knowing his time is short

The Scripture for this is….

--filled men's hearts with hatred to slaughter each other.

He has done this since Cain and Able…

The purpose was to stop the preaching of the good news of the kingdom which had begun, it did stop until 1919.

No evidence for this whatsoever! In war time the preaching of the gospel is generally easier to preach and more readily listened to.

After ww1 millions upon millions died all over the earth from things mentioned of the other 3 riders.

Again, this could be said about any global conflict, and many regional conflicts. After WW1, there was WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Afganistan, and more. All of them would correspond to the descriptions in the seals.

My teachers are correct on that matter. In 1879 Mr Russell said-Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914.

Russell changed his mind and “prophecy” many times. And the things he said have been changed numerous times by his successors.

God showed him the prophecy, he did err( mortal error) on thinking that ride of the white horse was this ride-Rev 19:11. Never the less he was correct on Rev 6 being 1914.

If God showed him the prophecy, it would not have been in error!

But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. Deut 18:20-22

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Rev 6:4Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

This could describe any war, global or otherwise.


Yes, long before the creation of man!




The Scripture for this is….


He has done this since Cain and Able…





No evidence for this whatsoever! In war time the preaching of the gospel is generally easier to preach and more readily listened to.


Again, this could be said about any global conflict, and many regional conflicts. After WW1, there was WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Afganistan, and more. All of them would correspond to the descriptions in the seals.



Russell changed his mind and “prophecy” many times. And the things he said have been changed numerous times by his successors.



If God showed him the prophecy, it would not have been in error!

But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him. Deut 18:20-22

Doug

All mortals err, All mortals are imperfect.
Please tell us how easy it is to undo 1750 years of false teachings out of altered and error filled translations? Without making errors.

 

[TibiasDad]

All mortals err, All mortals are imperfect.
Please tell us how easy it is to undo 1750 years of false teachings out of altered and error filled translations? Without making errors.

I did not say anything about perfection in all that we do, I said perfection in prophecy in the name of God! Russell was wrong in his prophecies, and subsequent prophecies by his successors also failed; each time causing a backpedaling and reconfiguration of the prophecies made. None of their original or revised prophecies have come to pass; they have spoken this as from God, and thus can only be described as false prophets.

Not one of God’s prophets ever made a prophecy that hasn’t been fulfilled, exactly as it was prophesied to happen. This cannot be said of the Watchtower prophecies.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

I did not say anything about perfection in all that we do, I said perfection in prophecy in the name of God! Russell was wrong in his prophecies, and subsequent prophecies by his successors also failed; each time causing a backpedaling and reconfiguration of the prophecies made. None of their original or revised prophecies have come to pass; they have spoken this as from God, and thus can only be described as false prophets.

Not one of God’s prophets ever made a prophecy that hasn’t been fulfilled, exactly as it was prophesied to happen. This cannot be said of the Watchtower prophecies.


Doug

They weren't prophecies, they were errors made by men. Men who have died and paid in full their wages of sin. It doesn't occur anymore, Yet truth has been uncovered by the JW religion over the years=at the proper time( Matt 24:45)=0 doubt in all creation.

 

[TibiasDad]

They weren't prophecies, they were errors made by men. Men who have died and paid in full their wages of sin. It doesn't occur anymore, Yet truth has been uncovered by the JW religion over the years=at the proper time( Matt 24:45)=0 doubt in all creation.

A prediction that Christ would return at a certain point is a prophecy! They have done that many times over. A pig by any other name is still a pig!


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

A prediction that Christ would return at a certain point is a prophecy! They have done that many times over. A pig by any other name is still a pig!


Doug

Christ did sit on his throne( Rev 6:2) 1914--its called the presence--Matt 24:37,,1Cor 15:23,,philp 2:12,, 2Pet 3:4)

 

[TibiasDad]

Christ did sit on his throne( Rev 6:2) 1914--its called the presence--Matt 24:37,,1Cor 15:23,,philp 2:12,, 2Pet 3:4)

Let’s just take the first reference in Matthew 24.

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This verse alone dismantles your arguments: A prophecy that something’s going to happen at a specific point of time, ie 1914, cannot be true if the day and hour (or any specific moment such as week or month or year or decade) is included in the prophecy, for that is not able to be known.


37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Note the comparison to the Noah event. Which was a catastrophic, global event. All but eight and the wildlife on the ark were utterly destroyed.

Certainly, WW1 was a hugely destructive event, but it was not a global catastrophe that annihilated nearly all things but a remnant.


40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Did this happen in 1914? This is the rapture of the church!

42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

Notice the syntax and verbiage of the verse. Verse 37 uses the word παρουσία which could mean either presence or coming. But this verse uses the word
ἔρχομαι, which can only me coming in a real physical sense and manner. The two verses are talking about the same event in the same context, so the use of ἔρχομαι means that παρουσία can only mean coming or arrival in a tangible way.

43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

ἔρχομαι is used again in both 24:43-44, reinforcing the intended meaning of παρουσία to be coming, not merely presence. This is also demonstrated by the analogy that Jesus uses to illustrate his “coming”. Jesus uses a burglar breaking into a house, which makes no sense if a non-physical “presence” is intended. Burglars are physically present when they come to break in.

If παρουσία cannot mean presence in the Matt 24 context referenced, then it cannot mean presence in any other similar context without creating an irreconcilable contradiction.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Let’s just take the first reference in Matthew 24.

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This verse alone dismantles your arguments: A prophecy that something’s going to happen at a specific point of time, ie 1914, cannot be true if the day and hour (or any specific moment such as week or month or year or decade) is included in the prophecy, for that is not able to be known.


37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Note the comparison to the Noah event. Which was a catastrophic, global event. All but eight and the wildlife on the ark were utterly destroyed.

Certainly, WW1 was a hugely destructive event, but it was not a global catastrophe that annihilated nearly all things but a remnant.


40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Did this happen in 1914? This is the rapture of the church!

42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

Notice the syntax and verbiage of the verse. Verse 37 uses the word παρουσία which could mean either presence or coming. But this verse uses the word
ἔρχομαι, which can only me coming in a real physical sense and manner. The two verses are talking about the same event in the same context, so the use of ἔρχομαι means that παρουσία can only mean coming or arrival in a tangible way.

43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

ἔρχομαι is used again in both 24:43-44, reinforcing the intended meaning of παρουσία to be coming, not merely presence. This is also demonstrated by the analogy that Jesus uses to illustrate his “coming”. Jesus uses a burglar breaking into a house, which makes no sense if a non-physical “presence” is intended. Burglars are physically present when they come to break in.

If παρουσία cannot mean presence in the Matt 24 context referenced, then it cannot mean presence in any other similar context without creating an irreconcilable contradiction.


Doug

The day and hour refers to Gods day of anger=Armageddon, that occurs at Rev 19:11, not at Rev 6:2

 

[TibiasDad]

The day and hour refers to Gods day of anger=Armageddon, that occurs at Rev 19:11, not at Rev 6:2

It refers to his coming; his physical return to retrieve his people. Rev 19 is Armageddon but that is not Matt 24.

I also note absolutely nothing regarding Matt 24 and the meaning of παρουσία especially in relation to Jesus use of ἔρχομαι. I never mentioned Revelation, nor was it even under specific discussion.

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

It refers to his coming; his physical return to retrieve his people. Rev 19 is Armageddon but that is not Matt 24.

Doug

The only physical return is Rev 19:11=armageddon. He sits on his throne since Rev 6:2=1914=the presence.

 

[Keiw1]

Let’s just take the first reference in Matthew 24.

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

This verse alone dismantles your arguments: A prophecy that something’s going to happen at a specific point of time, ie 1914, cannot be true if the day and hour (or any specific moment such as week or month or year or decade) is included in the prophecy, for that is not able to be known.


37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Note the comparison to the Noah event. Which was a catastrophic, global event. All but eight and the wildlife on the ark were utterly destroyed.

Certainly, WW1 was a hugely destructive event, but it was not a global catastrophe that annihilated nearly all things but a remnant.


40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Did this happen in 1914? This is the rapture of the church!

42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.

Notice the syntax and verbiage of the verse. Verse 37 uses the word παρουσία which could mean either presence or coming. But this verse uses the word
ἔρχομαι, which can only me coming in a real physical sense and manner. The two verses are talking about the same event in the same context, so the use of ἔρχομαι means that παρουσία can only mean coming or arrival in a tangible way.

43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

ἔρχομαι is used again in both 24:43-44, reinforcing the intended meaning of παρουσία to be coming, not merely presence. This is also demonstrated by the analogy that Jesus uses to illustrate his “coming”. Jesus uses a burglar breaking into a house, which makes no sense if a non-physical “presence” is intended. Burglars are physically present when they come to break in.

If παρουσία cannot mean presence in the Matt 24 context referenced, then it cannot mean presence in any other similar context without creating an irreconcilable contradiction.


Doug

Yes Jesus was warning the earth=99% are being mislead and will be destroyed. 99.9% in Noah's day. I would say one taken, one not, is the separating of the sheep and goats, that occurs during the tribulation.
Millions upon millions died starting in 1914 in a short period of time from the 4 riders. After ww1 the spanish flu hit, over 1 million dead worldwide, then Dr,s made up their own concoctions( vaccines) and they estimate that it could be as high as 100 million died after that. Many starved, etc

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes Jesus was warning the earth=99% are being mislead and will be destroyed. 99.9% in Noah's day.

Interesting… was 99% of the world’s population destroyed in 1914 or WW1, or by the Spanish flu or vaccines?

The world population in 1914 was 1.7 billion. There were 20 million military and civilian deaths in WW1. There were as many as million deaths in 1918 from the Spanish Flu.

70 million total deaths is about 4.1% of the 1.7 billion people living worldwide. As bad as this is, it is not even close to 99%.

Again, your argument doesn’t make any sense Biblically, mathematically, or historically.

I would say one taken, one not, is the separating of the sheep and goats, that occurs during the tribulation.

That is not the tribulation, and there is no such effect caused by the tribulation is scripture. If memory serves, Revelation 9 speaks of 1/3rd of mankind being killed, but that is not 99% or even 50% (ie, one taken one left.)

Millions upon millions died starting in 1914 in a short period of time from the 4 riders. After ww1 the spanish flu hit, over 1 million dead worldwide, then Dr,s made up their own concoctions( vaccines) and they estimate that it could be as high as 100 million died after that. Many starved, etc

For the sake of argument, if I accept your addition of 100 million (which I think is a hyperbolic assumption) that makes 170,000,000 deaths, which is about 9.5% of the 1.7 billion population in 1914-19.

People don’t die of starvation from vaccines!

Anyone can throw out huge numbers, but I don’t see any citations for these numbers. I did a quick google search for my stats by asking for the death tolls for these events.

Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Interesting… was 99% of the world’s population destroyed in 1914 or WW1, or by the Spanish flu or vaccines?

The world population in 1914 was 1.7 billion. There were 20 million military and civilian deaths in WW1. There were as many as million deaths in 1918 from the Spanish Flu.

70 million total deaths is about 4.1% of the 1.7 billion people living worldwide. As bad as this is, it is not even close to 99%.

Again, your argument doesn’t make any sense Biblically, mathematically, or historically.



That is not the tribulation, and there is no such effect caused by the tribulation is scripture. If memory serves, Revelation 9 speaks of 1/3rd of mankind being killed, but that is not 99% or even 50% (ie, one taken one left.)


For the sake of argument, if I accept your addition of 100 million (which I think is a hyperbolic assumption) that makes 170,000,000 deaths, which is about 9.5% of the 1.7 billion population in 1914-19.

People don’t die of starvation from vaccines!

Anyone can throw out huge numbers, but I don’t see any citations for these numbers. I did a quick google search for my stats by asking for the death tolls for these events.

Doug

At Armageddon is when 99% will be destroyed--Here is why-Rev 16--With 3 inspired expressions from Satans side -EVERY kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) will be mislead to stand in opposition to Gods king-- They are now as well standing in opposition. Those 3 expressions will hit mortals in the heart like 3, 9/11,s at once, and for patriotism they will stand for the flags of their countries,.
The image of the beast will look very good to the mortal heart. I do believe it will be-peace and security 1Thess 5:3

The day and hour= Gods day of anger.

 

[TibiasDad]

At Armageddon is when 99% will be destroyed--Here is why-Rev 16--With 3 inspired expressions from Satans side -EVERY kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) will be mislead to stand in opposition to Gods king-- They are now as well standing in opposition. Those 3 expressions will hit mortals in the heart like 3, 9/11,s at once, and for patriotism they will stand for the flags of their countries,.
The image of the beast will look very good to the mortal heart. I do believe it will be-peace and security 1Thess 5:3

The day and hour= Gods day of anger.

The only part that I disagree with you about is that Armageddon is being referred to in Matt 24!



30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is the rapture of the church, which is at some point in the tribulation (pre, mid, post).

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

The “it” refers to the rapture event of verses 30-31.

34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the
coming of the Son of Man.

Again, “that day or hour” refers back to verses 30-31! The visible return of Jesus in the air to rapture his church from the coming wrath of God, which leads to the millennial kingdom, at the end of which comes Armageddon!

38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

This, again, refers directly back to verses 30-31 and the physical, visible return of Christ and the rapture of the church.

Everything in Matthew 24 is about what happens leading up to the Millennium and Armageddon. It is not about Armageddon itself.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

The only part that I disagree with you about is that Armageddon is being referred to in Matt 24!



30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is the rapture of the church, which is at some point in the tribulation (pre, mid, post).

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.

The “it” refers to the rapture event of verses 30-31.

34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the
coming of the Son of Man.

Again, “that day or hour” refers back to verses 30-31! The visible return of Jesus in the air to rapture his church from the coming wrath of God, which leads to the millennial kingdom, at the end of which comes Armageddon!

38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

This, again, refers directly back to verses 30-31 and the physical, visible return of Christ and the rapture of the church.

Everything in Matthew 24 is about what happens leading up to the Millennium and Armageddon. It is not about Armageddon itself.


Doug

Rev 6:2= the presence--this began the first resurrection.( Only dead ones) during the trib the remaining little flock( alive) get changed in the twinkling of an eye. The great crowd does not leave the earth. Rev 19:11=Armageddon.
Few on earth saw the events of Rev 6:2, because blind guides saw nothing.
I will check on the day and hour, i could be in error.
Yes it refers to Rev 6:2=the presence. Not Gods day of anger. Ty for pointing that out so that i checked. It was my error, not what the JW,s teach. They teach its Rev 6:2.

 

[koberstein]

The sect known today as the Jehovah’s Witnesses started out in Pennsylvania in 1870 as a Bible class led by Charles Taze Russell. Russell named his group the “Millennial Dawn Bible Study,” and those who followed him were called “Bible students.” Charles T. Russell began writing a series of books he called The Millennial Dawn, which stretched to six volumes before his death and contained much of the theology Jehovah’s Witnesses now hold.

The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was founded in 1886 and quickly became the vehicle through which the “Millennial Dawn” movement began distributing their views. Group members were sometimes disparagingly called “Russellites.” After Russell’s death in 1916, Judge J. F. Rutherford, Russell’s successor, wrote the seventh and final volume of the Millennial Dawn series, The Finished Mystery, in 1917. That was also the year that the organization split. Those who followed Rutherford began calling themselves “Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

What do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe? Close scrutiny of their doctrinal position on such subjects as the deity of Christ, salvation, the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, and the atonement shows beyond a doubt that they do not hold to orthodox Christian positions on these subjects. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe Jesus is Michael the archangel, the highest created being. This contradicts many passages of Scripture that clearly declare Jesus to be God (John 1:1, 14; 8:58; 10:30). Jehovah’s Witnesses believe salvation is obtained by a combination of faith, good works, and obedience. This contradicts Scripture, which declares salvation to be received by grace through faith (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8–9; Titus 3:5). Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the doctrine of the Trinity, believing Jesus to be a created being and the Holy Spirit to essentially be the inanimate power of God. Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the concept of Christ’s substitutionary atonement and instead hold to a ransom theory, that Jesus’ death was a ransom payment for Adam’s sin.

How do the Jehovah’s Witnesses justify these unbiblical doctrines? First, they claim that the church has corrupted the Bible over the centuries; thus, they have re-translated the Bible to reflect their unique doctrines—the result is the New World Translation. The New World Translation has gone through numerous editions, as the Jehovah’s Witnesses discover more and more passages of Scripture that contradict their doctrines.

The Watchtower bases its beliefs and doctrines on the original and expanded teachings of Charles Taze Russell, Judge Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and their successors. The governing body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society claims sole authority to interpret Scripture. In other words, what the governing body says concerning any scriptural passage is viewed as the last word, and independent thinking is strongly discouraged. This is in direct opposition to Paul’s admonition to Timothy (and to us as well) to study to be approved by God, so that we need not be ashamed as we correctly handle the Word of God (2 Timothy 2:15). God’s children are to be like the Berean Christians, who searched the Scriptures daily to see if the things they were being taught lined up with the Word (Acts 17:11).

There is probably no religious group that is more faithful than the Jehovah’s Witnesses at spreading their message. Unfortunately, the message is full of distortions, deceptions, and false doctrine. May God open the eyes of the Jehovah’s Witnesses to the truth of the gospel and the true teaching of God’s Word.got?

hope this helps !!!

Bottom line, they are a cult group.

 

[Keiw1]

Bottom line, they are a cult group.

You must of missed Gods view of a cult, the only view that counts= A house divided( hundreds of trinity religions= a mass of confusion) will not stand. You see they fail this true mark 100%=1Cor 1:10= Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division. I know 10 year olds who can understand no division, but hundreds of religions claiming to belong to Jesus cannot-Why? Its those religions calling the 1 religion that passes 1 Cor 1:10-100%-- Most listen to these-2Cor 11:12-15)

 

[TibiasDad]

Rev 6:2= the presence--this began the first resurrection.( Only dead ones) during the trib the remaining little flock( alive) get changed in the twinkling of an eye. The great crowd does not leave the earth. Rev 19:11=Armageddon.
Few on earth saw the events of Rev 6:2, because blind guides saw nothing.
I will check on the day and hour, i could be in error.
Yes it refers to Rev 6:2=the presence. Not Gods day of anger. Ty for pointing that out so that i checked. It was my error, not what the JW,s teach. They teach its Rev 6:2.

Keiw1,

You pointed to Matt 24:42 to support your claim for “presence” rather than “coming” for the definition of παρουσία. I have shown lexical evidence that proves that παρουσία can only mean “coming” in Matt 24:42.

If παρουσία cannot mean “presence in Matt 24, then it cannot mean “presence” in any other passage dealing with Christ’s return.

Your keep returning to Rev 6:2, but that doesn’t even deal with or mention Christ’s return. It merely paints the image of a rider on a white horse bent on conquest! There is no specific time frame, no specific identification.


Doug

 

[Keiw1]

Keiw1,

You pointed to Matt 24:42 to support your claim for “presence” rather than “coming” for the definition of παρουσία. I have shown lexical evidence that proves that παρουσία can only mean “coming” in Matt 24:42.

If παρουσία cannot mean “presence in Matt 24, then it cannot mean “presence” in any other passage dealing with Christ’s return.

Your keep returning to Rev 6:2, but that doesn’t even deal with or mention Christ’s return. It merely paints the image of a rider on a white horse bent on conquest! There is no specific time frame, no specific identification.


Doug

Rev 12 explains the war in heaven and the birth of Gods kingdom, Rev 6:2= both.

 

[TibiasDad]

Rev 12 explains the war in heaven and the birth of Gods kingdom, Rev 6:2= both.

Do you have an aversion to dealing with Matt 24 that you cited in support of your argument about Rev 6:2.


Doug