Brakelite
Active member
I think you need a hug.
What do 7th Day Adventists Believe ?
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A high five will do.
These are my quick take on the graph you supplied:
- Baptism of Jesus is 27 AD, not 27 BC. I'm sure that's just a typo, no big deal.
- Not sure how 457 BC was derived? The Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England has the Jerusalem rebuild decree at 445 BC.
- Concerning the "69 weeks" span, it's not clear how many days in an OT year was used to compute the years? Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard used the Jewish Lunar/Solar year of 360 days/year to start at 445 BC which had him arrive at 32 AD, corresponding to Jesus' Royal Entry into Jerusalem.
- The 70th week will start with the ministry of Enoch and Elias (Rev 11:3)
- The 70th week midpoint is when the Anti-Christ gains unlimited power (Dan 9:27, 12:11; Rev 13:5; Matt 24:15).
- The "1260 Years" span (aka "3 1/2 times") is already accounted for in the second 3 1/2 years of the 70th week. (Dan 7:25,12:7)
- 2300 total of days and nights is when Antiochus Epiphanes replaced the Jewish Temple twice-daily offerings with pagan sacrifices. So it was the earthly sanctuary that was desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes and needed cleansing, not the heavenly sanctuary (Dan 8:14). That desecration is a prefiguration of what the Anti-Christ will unleash on mankind.
charismaticlady
Active member
I've never read where the fourth commandment meant that at all. The Sabbath was a physical day of rest only once a week on which no work was to be done. Nothing about being given a new home like winning the lottery. There is nothing spiritual about it that you can take with you that is any different than any other night you go to bed. Between the meaning of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant, the Old Covenant letter of the law physical rest is like kindergarten compared to the Spiritual meaning of the Sabbath that means abiding in Christ and He in us which is every moment of every day being sinless.
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Brakelite
Active member
"....because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel...." Levit. 16:16.
In the OT type/ shadow, the sins were confessed while the penitent's hands were upon the animals head, and the animal was them slain. The blood, which metaphorically now carried the sin and the death penalty of the law, (the life is in the blood) was carried into and sprinkled before the veil in the holy place. This action transferred the sins into the holy place, and stood as a record of the transgressions of Israel over since the tabernacle was last cleansed on the previous day of atonement.
So also are our sins recorded in the books of heaven, and it isn't until our present life is concluded, and our lives pass before the judge (who sits as one in court hearing the evidence of our case, Satan the prosecutor, Jesus the defender, that our sins are erased from those books. As Hebrews articulates, the OT rituals are a pictorial demonstration of what was to take place in the future in heaven.
For example, Pentecost wasn't just for the apostles. Pentecost was a fulfillment of the heavenly inauguration of Jesus as High Priest. And just as the oil was poured upon Aaron and his sons when annointed as priests, and so much so it spilled upon the ground, so was the holy Spirit poured out upon the Saviour, so much so, that man also is annointed and filled with the same Spirit of God. Type, antitype.
The heavenly sanctuary is where our sins are recorded, taken there metaphorically by the blood of the Lamb, and they need to be legally dealt with... God cannot pretend before the universe that they aren't there, nor can He stand and be seen to be just by simply wiping the slate clean. There is a great work being carried out in the heavenly sanctuary as we speak, it is essential to the full justification not just of man, but God especially.
Brakelite
Active member
We are talking about a day CL, not covenants. The old covenant is what I explained, it is not based on a day. The new covenant is not based on resting in Christ... It's based on God's laws being written on our hearts and minds and our acceptance of their authority and power (for they are promises) by faith. Only then will we find that rest you speak of.
Diserner
Well-known member
It's the difference between Grace and Works... whether you are producing through self-effort or receiving through the Cross.
The reason legalism is so bad, is because it is a spiritual deception and bondage of self-goodness and self-reliance.
Those under Grace know you don't need demand and obligation to make you good enough.
The Rest comes first.
Brakelite
Active member
You view eschatology from a completely different perspective than Adventists. You have adopted parts of preterist and parts of futurism, both hermeneutics being invented by Jesus in the 16th century to defeat Protestantism and divert the reformers' accusing fingers away from the papacy as being the Antichrist.
There is no harmony between the various components of your understanding. Adventists are historicist. As were the reformers. I think it would be a great idea to create another thread, although I have been down that rabbit hole before and it invariably turns into a shemozzle. Pre-trib, post-trib, pre-mil, post-mil, Amil, and all the variants in between, with no-one listening and everybody preaching and calling one another ignorant because they can't see.
Personally, I think if anyone here wants to understand Adventist eschatology, they need to study in private with distractions and all the weird opinions and extraneous confusion. I have been where you are. I was a Pentecostal for years, and Catholic before that. I understand the nuances and the vast majority of Christendom is now making plans to make peace with the Antichrist because they have forgotten and/or ignored what their predecessors taught. The reformers were right. They had the Antichrist identified, and this truth shook the world and Catholicism was being torn apart. As a result they lost their authority in civil power in Europe, and the numbers sought refuge in Protestant countries around the world, including your own. The constitution and bill of rights was written because of that history and was a protection against it happening again. Sadly, what was once an apparent mortal wound, is being healed, and the whole world will soon be wondering after the beast.
If you are interested, I can offer you some excellent Adventist sites with excellent resource material which you may download for free. You can then decide for yourself whether what we teach makes sense or not.
After another posters recommendation, I looked up Answering Adventistism. One thing I noticed straight away. While they accurately inform you of what we believe, (at least as far as I read) I noticed they didn't explain why we believe as we do. Some they write off as a result of Ellen White's visions, this is not the case. There is nothing we believe concerning doctrine that cannot be defended by scripture. That includes the investigative judgement, and the sabbath, the state of the dead, and our eschatology.
Brakelite
Active member
Why is it that Sabbath observance is so often viewed as legalistic, a burden, or a bondage, when scripture teaches exactly the opposite, and the experience confirms scripture?
Why is it that there couldn't possibly be a pre Advent judgement, when Jesus said "behold I come, and My reward is with Me...", And the angels are coming to sort the sheep from the goats, and the wheat from the tares? How is that possible without a judgement first?
Brakelite
Active member
There seems to be this impression that seventh day Adventists are roaming the world demanding everyone become an adventist, and keep the Sabbath. I think of you look back on this thread you will discover that the time of conversation was, Adventists are a cult, are heretics, come here heretic and answer to us. It is you guys who are challenging our beliefs ( and that's okay, we aren't afraid of that), and requiring that we defend and explain them. (Which we don't mind doing, but doctrine is a vast topic and a thread on a forum is notoriously difficult to use to expound every facet of ones belief.
I really do suggest you guys do some genuine research and don't presume to know why we believe what we do. I can't answer every question in a few short paragraphs. Particularly when some of the responses are simply inane throw away one liners.
I really do suggest you guys do some genuine research and don't presume to know why we believe what we do. I can't answer every question in a few short paragraphs. Particularly when some of the responses are simply inane throw away one liners.
Diserner
Well-known member
Because you're wrong.
Scripture and experience don't teach that.
All legalism does is puff people up with secret pride and replace the Work of the Cross.
As soon as you get some specific date (just coincedentally centered around another failed prophetic incident OF COURSE), you know you've gotten off into a spirit of error and such weirdness.
If the Bible wanted us to know a specific date or time period outside of Christ's ascension, it would have told us all by itself.
That's a prefiguration of the Cross, occurred on Earth not in Heaven.
That's a prefiguration of the Ascension. Christ's blood is holy. There is no sin within His blood.
Our sins were nailed to the Cross. Again, Christ and His blood is holy. There is no carrying of sin on the part of Jesus. Our sins were already nailed to the Cross.
Satan is not in Heaven so any judgment that has him present will not be in heaven let alone in a heavenly sanctuary.
Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit at His Baptism, everyone else at Pentecost.
Jesus' blood is pure. Our sins have been already nailed to the Cross, forever there. Our sins are dealt with at the Cross. They were legally dealt with there and there is no pretending that they were not. The Cross was a great work where our slates were cleaned then and there, essential to our justification.
I, for one, appreciate the time you take to respond to our questions. I don't feel at all put upon by Adventists. In fact, I don't think that I ever met one face to face. They are that unassuming, at least around my circles.
Brakelite
Active member
KJV Isaiah 58:13-14
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Looks like a day in which one can find a blessing to me.
And I have no argument with you about legalism. It's a curse and it's real. We cannot earn salvation, or improve our standing with the Lord through anything we do. Our standing simply cannot be improved upon at all. By anything.
Brakelite
Active member
Thank you. And I don't mind the questions. I may not be able to answer them as eloquently and as fully as I would like, but I am confident in that I know, and have known for over 25 years now, that our doctrines do stand up to scrutiny. I know this because for all those 25+years I have been called upon to defend Adventistism by those who have presumed much about what we believe and why, but have presumed wrongly. There are some things about our beliefs I feel much stronger about them others. And first of those would be the lie in Christendom concerning eternal torment. "Can a man be more righteous than his Maker?"
I see that you have the Pope in your crosshairs. The Bible describes a one person antichrist, not a series of them.
I'm curious who do you think the future King of the North and King of the South could be. I think that the King of the North could be the Western Powers and I thought that the King of the South could be Russia. I'm not so sure about Russia anymore.
Brakelite
Active member
You may be interested, or not, to know that Ellen White would agree with you.
What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ.”—The Faith I Live By, p. 109.
The proud heart strives to earn salvation; but both our title to heaven and our fitness for it are found in the righteousness of Christ. The Lord can do nothing toward the recovery of man until, convinced of his own weakness, and stripped of all self-sufficiency, he yields himself to the control of God. Then he can receive the gift that God is waiting to bestow. From the soul that feels his need, nothing is withheld. He has unrestricted access to Him in whom all fullness dwells. “For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.” Isaiah 57:15.—The Desire of Ages, p. 300.
Diserner
Well-known member
I appreciate your answers and explanations, even if we don't agree; they help an outsider understand where you are coming from.
I have another SDA that ignores me half the time, it's very frustrating.
charismaticlady
Active member
If you rest In Christ you automatically keep the Spirit of the Law through love. The Old Covenant was all about keeping the letter of the law, and the letter of the law is the ONLY way one can keep the law of the Sabbath, so how do you suppose keeping the Spirit of the Sabbath is accomplished without keeping the day? You can't. That is why it was fulfilled in Christ who is the substance of the Sabbath. Keeping a day doesn't save you; keeping Jesus does!
