What do 7th Day Adventists Believe ?

[charismaticlady]

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Home - 1844 Made Simple

This site consists of a few sections: the video, the slides, which you can download and use, the podcasts, and the resources. The main part is the video, which you can download or watch online either as a whole, or in sections.

1844madesimple.org

Romans 7:5-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Brakelite, now that we are in the Spirit, how do we keep the Sabbath by the Spirit instead of the letter? Keeping a physical day holy is by the letter.

By the Spirit is all the time, because we are never to be out of the Spirit. So what does that mean?

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Brakelite]

Your author mentions that Jesus “entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry” in 1844. What Bible verse makes mention of these 2nd and 3rd phases

There are 3 phases to the Atonement.
A. Calvary.
B. Ministry in the Holy Place.
C. Ministry in the Most Holy Place.
Leviticus 16 describes the Day of Atonement, when the High Priest alone was required to perform the ritual that brought the final cleansing to the congregation.
You would know that Calvary accomplished nothing without the resurrection. The plan of salvation cannot accomplish anything without dealing with the sin problem. Our sins were placed upon Christ. Where are the sins? Upon Christ. Just as the sins of Israel were placed upon the lamb. The blood of the lamb, in which was the life of the lamb, was carried into the holy place and sprinkled before the altar of incense. The sins were in the blood, being transferred into the sanctuary. As in the earthly, so also in the heavenly. Our sins are placed upon Christ, who by His blood ministers in the heavenly sanctuary. The day out Atonement was the final act in dealing with the sin problem. Removing them, cleansing the sanctuary, in type and antitype, and placing them upon the scape goat, Satan, who will soon bear the guilt of his part in the rebellion. Satan in the end will be held accountable for the part He played in the devastation and chaos of this planet for the last 6000 years. All this will take place at the second coming... Satan bound by circumstances on a lonely ruined planet for 1000 years to suffer with the fallen angels that will hate and despise him for leading them to eventual destruction.

Your author mentions that the 2nd & 3rd phases take place “in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary”. Where is that place exactly on earth?

We both know there is no earthly sanctuary now, unless you mean the church and/is as individuals. So you are mistaken. A direct quote and reference would be helpful.

John 16:7-11 mentions the Convicting Ministry of the Holy Spirit. Is that what your author is talking about by the phrase “investigative judgment”?

No. See Daniel 7:10. This isn't a final judgement, it is a pre Advent judgement to determine who is saved and who isn't. It is for the benefit of the angels who are called to gather the elect from the earth. This judgement is given, determined, in favour of the saints. It's a good thing

Jesus is “Minister (λειτουργος) of the sanctuary” (Heb 8:2). λειτουργος translated to English is Liturgist. Jesus is presiding over the Heavenly Liturgy that we only emulate in bits and shadows on earth as a church liturgy. I’ve never attended an SDA Church service; does your Church conduct its services as a Liturgy?

I find no reference to liturgy from that word. Minister... Officer. And no, we don't have a liturgy.

 

[Brakelite]

Romans 7:5-6
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Brakelite, now that we are in the Spirit, how do we keep the Sabbath by the Spirit instead of the letter? Keeping a physical day holy is by the letter.

By the Spirit is all the time, because we are never to be out of the Spirit. So what does that mean?

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Does observing the 6th commandment according to the Spirit free you to not bother observing the letter? You can kill people so long as you aren't unreasonably angry with them? What about the 7th?
I think you have your wires crossed as to what law Paul is referencing when he says the letter of the law no longer needs to be observed. Tell me. Seeing the new covenant is written upon our hearts now instead of stone , would that not also involve letters, or is it in some form of hieroglyph?
BTW Hi CL.

 

[synergy]

There are 3 phases to the Atonement.
A. Calvary.
B. Ministry in the Holy Place.
C. Ministry in the Most Holy Place.
Leviticus 16 describes the Day of Atonement, when the High Priest alone was required to perform the ritual that brought the final cleansing to the congregation.
You would know that Calvary accomplished nothing without the resurrection. The plan of salvation cannot accomplish anything without dealing with the sin problem. Our sins were placed upon Christ. Where are the sins? Upon Christ. Just as the sins of Israel were placed upon the lamb. The blood of the lamb, in which was the life of the lamb, was carried into the holy place and sprinkled before the altar of incense. The sins were in the blood, being transferred into the sanctuary. As in the earthly, so also in the heavenly. Our sins are placed upon Christ, who by His blood ministers in the heavenly sanctuary. The day out Atonement was the final act in dealing with the sin problem. Removing them, cleansing the sanctuary, in type and antitype, and placing them upon the scape goat, Satan, who will soon bear the guilt of his part in the rebellion. Satan in the end will be held accountable for the part He played in the devastation and chaos of this planet for the last 6000 years. All this will take place at the second coming... Satan bound by circumstances on a lonely ruined planet for 1000 years to suffer with the fallen angels that will hate and despise him for leading them to eventual destruction.

Let's go back to your author's 1844 statement. Is he saying that the 2nd and 3rd phases were accomplished by Christ only after 1844? How does that coincide with the fact that Christ went directly into the Most Holy Place, the very presence of God, immediately at his Ascension? I see no waiting to get to Phase 3 on Christ's part.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

We both know there is no earthly sanctuary now, unless you mean the church and/is as individuals. So you are mistaken. A direct quote and reference would be helpful.

Your author mentions that the 2nd & last phases take place “in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary”. Was he mistaken to say that it's an "earthly sanctuary"?

No. See Daniel 7:10. This isn't a final judgement, it is a pre Advent judgement to determine who is saved and who isn't. It is for the benefit of the angels who are called to gather the elect from the earth. This judgement is given, determined, in favour of the saints. It's a good thing

Sounds like judgment day to me:

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

I find no reference to liturgy from that word. Minister... Officer. And no, we don't have a liturgy.

I would think that a Church that claims to follow Christ as the Heavenly Liturgist (in Greek NT) would strive to have a liturgy in their services.

 

[charismaticlady]

Does observing the 6th commandment according to the Spirit free you to not bother observing the letter? You can kill people so long as you aren't unreasonably angry with them? What about the 7th?
I think you have your wires crossed as to what law Paul is referencing when he says the letter of the law no longer needs to be observed. Tell me. Seeing the new covenant is written upon our hearts now instead of stone , would that not also involve letters, or is it in some form of hieroglyph?
BTW Hi CL.

The Old Covenant is of the natural flesh and the 4th commandment is not spiritual, but physical as a physical rest. All the laws regarding keeping the Sabbath are physical and can only be kept by the letter of the law. (Why Paul says the letter kills, I haven't a clue.) The New Covenant is supernatural of the Spirit. The 4th commandment in the New Covenant is observed when we abide IN Christ and Christ abides IN US. We become one with the Creator who creates a new nature within us and we are given the mind of Christ. The 6th to 10th commandments are kept with unselfish love, keeping our minds not on this world or the things of this world but of the next.

 

[Brakelite]

Your author mentions that the 2nd & last phases take place “in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary”. Was he mistaken to say that it's an "earthly sanctuary"?

In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He (Christ) entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary.
The author is not talking about the present actions of some earthly high priest. Do you not understand the concept of types and antitype?

KJV Hebrews 8:3-5
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

 

[Brakelite]

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

While Daniel was watching this event taking place in heaven, his attention was diverted to events taking place at the same time on earth. The little horn, the Antichrist, was still in action, and speaking great words against the Most High, all the while this judgement was taking place. Daniel then is encouraged to see the horn punished. This judgement is a pre Advent judgement. It is the antitype to the old Day of Atonement which was recognised by Jews as a firm of solemn judgement. Do not confuse judgement with execution of sentence. They are not the same

I would think that a Church that claims to follow Christ as the Heavenly Liturgist (in Greek NT) would strive to have a liturgy in their services.

A concept created in the late middle ages by the Latin church using Greek language and philosophy to justify it doesn't apply to our High Priest Who preceded both.

 

[Brakelite]

The Old Covenant is of the natural flesh and the 4th commandment is not spiritual, but physical as a physical rest. All the laws regarding keeping the Sabbath are physical and can only be kept by the letter of the law. (Why Paul says the letter kills, I haven't a clue.) The New Covenant is supernatural of the Spirit. The 4th commandment in the New Covenant is observed when we abide IN Christ and Christ abides IN US. We become one with the Creator who creates a new nature within us and we are given the mind of Christ. The 6th to 10th commandments are kept with unselfish love, keeping our minds not on this world or the things of this world but of the next.

When Paul said the law was spiritual, He wasn't excluding the 4th commandment. It takes spiritual discernment to understand obedience. It takes faith to accept when God says something, He means it. One doesn't look for excuses or reasons to set aside that which He says, remember.
Observing the Sabbath reveals whose authority you have surrendered to. Who is your Lord? The authority to whom you are subject reveals the God you have chosen. This also is spiritual.

KJV John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

One Christian says Sunday ought to be observed. His authority then is the Catholic church. Another Christian says no day need to be observed, but having no scripture in support, his authority is himself.

 

[Brakelite]

For more than two months in the winter there is no sunset in Barrow, Alaska.
This demonstrates this Old Covenant command is not a universal.
It only applied to the nation of Israel - and that for a particular time period.

This demonstrates nothing about the old covenant, but a lot about who you think God is. God is not an arbitrary tyrant that has the legalistic mind so many charge Him with. In such circumstances, one does his best. The earth doesn't stop revolving because you choose to live in a hut within a stones throw of the north pole. Nor does it absolve you of your obligations to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and body. So you do what you can. He does not expect us to do what we can't. He is a merciful and understanding God, full of grace and lovingkindness. He is not going to condemn anyone for doing all they can to obey. However, for those who can't be bothered and search for excuses to disobey...

 

[Brakelite]

The Old Covenant is of the natural flesh and the 4th commandment is not spiritual, but physical as a physical rest.

Please explain how the old covenant is of the natural flesh. What do you mean by that?
Yes, we physically rest on the Sabbath, but that doesn't mean we cease from all activity. It means we cease from those works that focus on self and self sustaining worldly enterprises. We are to focus on the spiritual, recognising our hope, our life, our present place in Christ is all due to Him and Him only, for without Him we can do nothing.
KJV Isaiah 58:13-14
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

That's true rest. It is a demonstration of confidence in Him. Confidence in His word as truth (Exodus 20:8)... Confidence in His ability to supply all our needs (Saturdays are the most lucrative in many businesses today)... Confidence in His power to sustain your faith and joy and peace in the face of the majority who despise the Sabbath and those who honour it....

 

[charismaticlady]

When Paul said the law was spiritual, He wasn't excluding the 4th commandment. It takes spiritual discernment to understand obedience. It takes faith to accept when God says something, He means it. One doesn't look for excuses or reasons to set aside that which He says, remember.
Observing the Sabbath reveals whose authority you have surrendered to. Who is your Lord? The authority to whom you are subject reveals the God you have chosen. This also is spiritual.

KJV John 4:23-24
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

One Christian says Sunday ought to be observed. His authority then is the Catholic church. Another Christian says no day need to be observed, but having no scripture in support, his authority is himself.

We are NOT to keep the Sabbath in the flesh, but the letter of the law. Period. Why can't you understand what is written?

 

[Diserner]

Another Christian says no day need to be observed, but having no scripture in support, his authority is himself.

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. (Col. 2:16-17 NKJ)

 

[Fred]

This demonstrates nothing about the old covenant,

It proves the 7th day command of the Old Covenant is not binding for people who live in the northern regions where for a period of time there isn't any sunset.

but a lot about who you think God is. God is not an arbitrary tyrant that has the legalistic mind so many charge Him with. In such circumstances, one does his best. The earth doesn't stop revolving because you choose to live in a hut within a stones throw of the north pole.

Just to let you know, there are many people who live in houses there.

So you do what you can.

No matter how much one does there this Old Covenant command can't be obeyed.

He does not expect us to do what we can't.

That's it right there.
Thanks for proving that they can't obey this Old Covenant command.

This was my question from post 37:
According to Seventh-day Adventists, what is the specific time that all Christians everywhere on the earth are to obey the 7th day Sabbath?

It reads "all Christians", and you responded to the question by saying "sunset to sunset" (post 39).

This won't work which proves your teaching is false and is therefore to be utterly rejected.

 

[synergy]

In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He (Christ) entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry, which was typified by the work of the high priest in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary.
The author is not talking about the present actions of some earthly high priest. Do you not understand the concept of types and antitype?

KJV Hebrews 8:3-5
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Your comments made mention of an "earthly sanctuary" - that the 2nd & last phases take place “in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary”. Was that quoted person mistaken?

BTW, I do understand the concept of types and antitypes but that does not answer my question.

 

[synergy]

While Daniel was watching this event taking place in heaven, his attention was diverted to events taking place at the same time on earth. The little horn, the Antichrist, was still in action, and speaking great words against the Most High, all the while this judgement was taking place. Daniel then is encouraged to see the horn punished. This judgement is a pre Advent judgement. It is the antitype to the old Day of Atonement which was recognised by Jews as a firm of solemn judgement. Do not confuse judgement with execution of sentence. They are not the same

What's left for Judgment Day to do when all highlighted events will occur at a "pre-Advent judgment"?

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

A concept created in the late middle ages by the Latin church using Greek language and philosophy to justify it doesn't apply to our High Priest Who preceded both.

All Jewish services, especially the Day of Atonement service, are very liturgical. I would think that a Church that claims to know the ins and outs of the Day of Atonement practices would understand that.

 

[Diserner]

Your comments made mention of an "earthly sanctuary" - that the 2nd & last phases take place “in the most holy place of the earthly sanctuary”. Was that quoted person mistaken?

BTW, I do understand the concept of types and antitypes but that does not answer my question.

Seems to me, it does not say it literally happens in the earthly sanctuary, but only that it was symbolic.

 

[synergy]

Seems to me, it does not say it literally happens in the earthly sanctuary, but only that it was symbolic.

Symbolic for what? It can't be symbolic for the heavenly sanctuary because why would a heavenly sanctuary need cleansing?

(Dan 8:14) And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”

 

[Diserner]

Symbolic for what? It can't be symbolic for the heavenly sanctuary because why would a heavenly sanctuary need cleansing?

That's a very interesting question.

 

[Brakelite]

It proves the 7th day command of the Old Covenant is not binding for people who live in the northern regions where for a period of time there isn't any sunset.



Just to let you know, there are many people who live in houses there.



No matter how much one does there this Old Covenant command can't be obeyed.






That's it right there.
Thanks for proving that they can't obey this Old Covenant command.

This was my question from post 37:
According to Seventh-day Adventists, what is the specific time that all Christians everywhere on the earth are to obey the 7th day Sabbath?

It reads "all Christians", and you responded to the question by saying "sunset to sunset" (post 39).

This won't work which proves your teaching is false and is therefore to be utterly rejected.

I think you need to take this up with Jesus, who instituted the Sabbath in the garden of Eden. It wasn't a Jewish ordinance then, and it won't be in the new earth. It's a blessing and a gift for all the children of God that they may find a time of rest from secular affairs and spend uninterrupted and focused time with their Lord. If you don't like that idea, then fine. But there no need to search for the fine print in order to feel good about ignoring it. You aren't in the Arctic circle. What are you doing about the Sabbath? Just be honest. Do you hate the idea of obeying a "Jewish commandment" because it's inconvenient, not required, legalistic, embarrassing? What. Because one thing it isn't. It isn't umbilical

 

[Brakelite]

What's left for Judgment Day to do when all highlighted events will occur at a "pre-Advent judgment"?

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

All Jewish services, especially the Day of Atonement service, are very liturgical. I would think that a Church that claims to know the ins and outs of the Day of Atonement practices would understand that.

The gentleman in the videos at 1844 Made Simple, is Jewish. I am totally sure that he would have more understanding than me. Perhaps you should ask him. Clifford Goldstein. You'll find him on Facebook and likely a few other social media sites as well.
Other than that, I can't help you. Not sure why I would even need to honestly. If it's your estimation that a church ought to liturgical, praise God we have the religious liberty still to attend where and when we like, and you'll find one in your vicinity I presume, of you don't already attend one. Enjoy.