Shouldn't our earthly sanctuaries emulate the heavenly sanctuary? The heavenly sanctuary has not done away with incense so why should we do away with it in our Churches?
What do 7th Day Adventists Believe ?
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Brakelite
Active member
The cleansing of the sanctuary cleansed the record of the sins of Israel on the Day of Atonement. Adventists do not accept OSAS.
Does not Satan bear any guilt at all for the sins and evil he was responsible for? If so, when does that transaction take place?
Now we are delving into the millennium.
And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years should be fulfilled: And after that, he must be loosed a little season (Revelation 20:1-3).
The destruction of those who reject God and the removal God's people from the earth will leave the earth desolate. In Revelation 20, John describes an angel who binds Satan with a great chain and throws him in the abyss. The term abyss is used in Scripture to denote the grave, death, destruction, and the prison of the demons (Romans 10:7, Luke 8:31).
The term abyss is also used in the Greek version of the Old Testament to describe the state of the uninhabited world when it says, “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” (Genesis 1:2).
The description of the earth after the coming of Christ, given by the prophet Jeremiah, is an apt description of the formless and void earth:
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld and lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, by His fierce anger (Jeremiah 4:23-26).
The whole world will be turned into a great prison for Satan and his demons. The great chain with which he is bound is the chain of circumstances that will prevent him from deceiving the nations, as they will have already been destroyed and no one remains on the earth. The Biblical records abound with examples of chains of circumstances: Psalm 2:3; 107:10,14; 116:16; Ecclesiastes 7:26; Isaiah 28:22, 52:2, and 58:6; Jeremiah 40:4; Lamentations 3:7.
It shall come to pass in that day
That the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished. (Isaiah 24:21-23 NKJV).
In these verses, we see that God's judgments fall not only upon the kings of the earth, but also on the demonic forces ("the host of exalted ones"). The evil confederacy will be shut up in prison of isolation and after one thousand years they shall be released (Revelation 20:3). During the millennium, Satan and his army will thus be captives on the desolate earth, while God's people are taken to heaven.
Brakelite
Active member
The incense in the earthly sanctuary represented what?
Brakelite
Active member
As for the kings of North and South... One has to follow the flow of history over the last 2000 years to identify who they are, because they changed identity over the years, albeit in their relation to Israel, remained north and south. In the OT, they were literal local powers... In the NT they are global spiritual movements, but centred north or south as the case may be.
Prayers of the people/saints to God. That is symbolic on earth and true in heaven. We should not do away with that which the heavenly sanctuary does recognize as true.
Only the Cross truly cleanses our records. The Cross occurred in an open field, not in any sanctuary. That's because the Holy of Holies did not need cleansing to begin with and neither does the Heavenly Sanctuary. I don't accept OSAS either.
Yes but I'm responsible for my sins. When I repent my sins are nailed to the cross and sent out into oblivion at that moment. There is no need for me to wait for any heavenly sanctuary cleaning that needs no cleansing in the first place since it's holy already.
I'm trying to align your comments with Rev 20. In your opinion, when does the millennium start, when is Jesus' 2nd coming and when is judgment day according to Rev 20?
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from Heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
Rev 20:3 And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little time.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.
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Brakelite
Active member
The altar of incense represented the Intercessor... Jesus. Now we have the antitypical High Priest Who we can approach direct.
Brakelite
Active member
Late here now, I'll get back to this tomorrow some time.
You asked me what "incense in the earthly sanctuary represented". You didn't ask me what the "altar of incense represented". So, what is it you want to talk about: the incense or the altar of incense?
My question has not been answered: Why should your church do away with that which the heavenly sanctuary does recognize as true and does keep present within itself?
Rockson
Well-known member
I'd say we don't and should not consider the Ten Commandments in the way that you say. They were written in stone. See below,
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 2 Cor 3:3
When you're talking about the Sabbath you're talking about an Old Covenant article that was on stone which didn't come on through to the new covenant. The morality items did but even with them it's a new law of LOVE with God keeping those through us by his Spirit. We have our rest in Christ of which the Sabbath was merely a type. Heb 4:9
If you want to keep a sabbath you're at liberty to do so. Is it wise to put a yoke over other people's conscious that they've somehow sinned if they don't? I think not. Paul said let everyone decide within themselves. Col 2:16 Thing is though (I could be wrong) but it seems you gravitate towards a position that if they don't accept your understanding they'll not stay saved. And that can open up the discussion of OSAS but we won't go there.
charismaticlady
Active member
Yes, because I'm keeping the TRUE Sabbath rest, by the Spirit of Truth. If you also keep the True Sabbath Rest IN JESUS, then it won't matter if you want to keep the letter of the law too, though it was the sign of the Old Covenant. We are under the NEW COVENANT with a totally different sign, one that represents what saves us! But if you don't abide in Jesus then your keeping of the Sabbath, even if you did keep it to the letter, which no one does, won't save you.
Keeping Sunday is not a law, just a tradition started by the apostles.
charismaticlady
Active member
Read Romans 7:6 and you tell me?
But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Azriel
Well-known member
I've had a few dealings with one particular seventh-day Adventist Church in Cathedral City, California. And they were all positive. I don't hold to any of their beliefs but I'm thankful for the brief time that I was involved with them. I was privileged enough to see God move in amazing ways that I'll never forget.
Rockson
Well-known member
Yes it does. If it didn't all would have to become circumcised
physically by the law. You don't have to do that now, that is to keep the letter of the law because the spirit of the law is heart circumcision . That's the only thing that matters. Same as the Sabbath by the way. We don't have to keep that by the letter of the law either for it's all fulfilled in our Sabbath Rest a person....JESUS. Hebrews 4
Rockson
Well-known member
Sure. I've had good friends which were SDA. They can be very positive people . I don't agree with their eschatological position on things (end time beliefs) I do like their emphasis on the Lord's coming back though. Perhaps they still do but they used to have these end time evangelical outreach meetings and would advertise it and get a lot of interested people not Christian to attend.
People are interested in topics what does the Bible say about the future and I'd hope other Christian groups would do the same albeit not teaching exactly what they do. At least it's getting people thinking about the Lord.
Rockson
Well-known member
I'd say RIGHT.
charismaticlady
Active member
Amen. Just like 1 John 3:24 and John 15:4 our Sabbath rest that still points to the Creator is abiding in Jesus.
23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
Diserner
Well-known member
Oh, gather 'round, ye faithful souls,
And listen to the tale I'm told,
Of 1844, a wondrous year,
When Christ, they say, did reappear.
In the heavenly tabernacle, so divine,
He cleansed away our every sin,
But hold on just a minute, let's see,
If that's what Hebrews taught to be.
For in that book, so clear and wise,
In chapter six, a truth implies,
That Christ, the High Priest, did enter once,
Not twice, thrice, or some grand nuance.
"Once for all," it boldly states,
The sacrifice complete, no room for debates,
No need for 1844's strange claim,
One time sufficed, in Christ's holy name.
But alas, some minds did drift away,
To a date they deemed a judgment day,
1844, they cried, with fervent zeal,
Ignoring Hebrews' simple appeal.
So, let us mock this fanciful belief,
That Christ did cleanse, provide relief,
In some celestial spring cleaning spree,
When Hebrews taught "once" for you and me.
Oh, the irony of it all, so grand,
To twist God's word with idle hand,
1844, a tale bizarre,
Hebrews' truth, we'll take by far.
And listen to the tale I'm told,
Of 1844, a wondrous year,
When Christ, they say, did reappear.
In the heavenly tabernacle, so divine,
He cleansed away our every sin,
But hold on just a minute, let's see,
If that's what Hebrews taught to be.
For in that book, so clear and wise,
In chapter six, a truth implies,
That Christ, the High Priest, did enter once,
Not twice, thrice, or some grand nuance.
"Once for all," it boldly states,
The sacrifice complete, no room for debates,
No need for 1844's strange claim,
One time sufficed, in Christ's holy name.
But alas, some minds did drift away,
To a date they deemed a judgment day,
1844, they cried, with fervent zeal,
Ignoring Hebrews' simple appeal.
So, let us mock this fanciful belief,
That Christ did cleanse, provide relief,
In some celestial spring cleaning spree,
When Hebrews taught "once" for you and me.
Oh, the irony of it all, so grand,
To twist God's word with idle hand,
1844, a tale bizarre,
Hebrews' truth, we'll take by far.
