Trying to understand Dispensationalism

Hello @DavP,

For the members of the Body of Christ there is a very simple and straight forward hope, and that is found in Colossians 3:4:-

'For ye are dead,
and your life is hid with Christ in God.-
When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'

(Col 3:3-4)

The members are so closely identified with their risen and ascended Lord, that they are with Him where He is: So when He appears in glory, they shall also appear with Him there. It is His appearing that I look for, in the sure knowledge that I shall appear with Him, with all who love His appearing. I do not understand the when, or how, but I do believe that it will be accomplished as He has said.

* This was Paul's hope, expressed in 2 Timothy 4:8:-

'For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day:
and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing.'

(2Tim. 4:6-8)

* No fear, only trust. :)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, I'm familiar with Apostle Paul's "blessed hope" of Titus 2:13, which the Pre-trib Rapture doctors abuse to make you think to exclude Christ's commandment to WATCH the SIGNS of the end He gave leading up to His coming so we would not be deceived.

Which is better then, just a 'hope' that we won't be deceived, or knowing what is coming that Jesus told us so we won't be deceived?

We cannot just 'hope' we will be among the five wise virgins of Matthew 25 that had the SPARE VESSEL of OIL (Holy Spirit). Jesus showed what will happen to those five foolish virgins that didn't get the spare vessel of The Oil. And what did Jesus show The Holy Spirit Comforter is for? to teach us all things (John 14:26).
 
Yes, I'm familiar with Apostle Paul's "blessed hope" of Titus 2:13, which the Pre-trib Rapture doctors abuse to make you think to exclude Christ's commandment to WATCH the SIGNS of the end He gave leading up to His coming so we would not be deceived.

Which is better then, just a 'hope' that we won't be deceived, or knowing what is coming that Jesus told us so we won't be deceived?

We cannot just 'hope' we will be among the five wise virgins of Matthew 25 that had the SPARE VESSEL of OIL (Holy Spirit). Jesus showed what will happen to those five foolish virgins that didn't get the spare vessel of The Oil. And what did Jesus show The Holy Spirit Comforter is for? to teach us all things (John 14:26).
John 14:26 is a promise to the 12. They wrote scripture and Jesus said He would remind them of everything He taught them when the Holy Spirit came. The Apostles wrote all of the truth , we call it the New Testament. We do not and cannot know all truth. You believe error and so do I and everyone else.

That is a misused and abused passage taken out of context by many.

hope this helps !!!
 
John 14:26 is a promise to the 12. They wrote scripture and Jesus said He would remind them of everything He taught them when the Holy Spirit came. The Apostles wrote all of the truth , we call it the New Testament. We do not and cannot know all truth. You believe error and so do I and everyone else.

That is a misused and abused passage taken out of context by many.

hope this helps !!!

Wait a minute, so The Holy Spirit Comforter does a DIFFERENT working for those in Christ OUTSIDE the small group of Christ's 12 Apostles?

Sorry, no such idea is written in God's Word.

Thus the John 14:26 Scripture about the Holy Spirit Comforter teaching us all things is in effect for ALL believers on Christ, not just Christ's 12 Apostles.

Christ's parable of the ten virgins of Matthew 25 regarding the lamps of Oil is NOT meant just for His 12 Apostles. And it would have to be just for the 12, if what you are saying were true.

And by the way, the Pre-trib Rapture theory school often uses that 'not meant for us Christians' type of idea to make you disregard important Scripture which even Lord Jesus gave directly to all... of His Church. An example? Christ's Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13. So I see some of that type of influence in what you said above.
 
Wait a minute, so The Holy Spirit Comforter does a DIFFERENT working for those in Christ OUTSIDE the small group of Christ's 12 Apostles?

Sorry, no such idea is written in God's Word.

Thus the John 14:26 Scripture about the Holy Spirit Comforter teaching us all things is in effect for ALL believers on Christ, not just Christ's 12 Apostles.

Christ's parable of the ten virgins of Matthew 25 regarding the lamps of Oil is NOT meant just for His 12 Apostles. And it would have to be just for the 12, if what you are saying were true.
Yep Jesus was specifically addressing the 12 and making tremendous a promise.
 
Yep Jesus was specifically addressing the 12 and making tremendous a promise.
So Jesus was addressing only His Apostles in His Olivet discourse, where He gave the main SIGNS of the end which PARALLEL the Revelation 6 SEALS which John was to give to His Church?

The Oil in the lamps of the ten virgins in Matthew 25 represents The Holy Spirit.

The five wise virgins had a 'spare vessel'... of that Oil to go with the Oil already in their lamps. The five foolish virgins had only the Oil that was in their lamps. The lamps of the five foolish virgins ran out of the Oil as midnight approached with the Bridegroom coming.

Lord Jesus could not have been more clear with that ten virgin parable that the five foolish virgins were heeding something else other than The Holy Spirit, otherwise they would have had that spare vessel of the Oil at the start, like the five wise virgins had.

Now one does not have more or less of The Holy Spirit literally, but instead a more or less understanding by... The Holy Spirit depending on what and who we listen to. Thus the 'spare vessel' of the Oil (Holy Spirit) represents a 'greater understanding' from listening to The Holy Spirit, instead of men's leaven doctrines.

The market which the five foolish virgins were told to go and buy more of the Oil for lamps that had burned out, represents the leaven traditions of men of this world, which are designed to deceive. God allows that deceptive working by men so as to prove us, to see if we will listen to Him and His Son in His Word, or to men's doctrines. The five foolish virgins actually thought they could go to that 'market' and 'buy' The Holy Spirit. It represents their trusting in man more than in God and His Word.

2 Cor 1:21-22
21 Now He Which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
KJV
 
So Jesus was addressing only His Apostles in His Olivet discourse, where He gave the main SIGNS of the end which PARALLEL the Revelation 6 SEALS which John was to give to His Church?

The Oil in the lamps of the ten virgins in Matthew 25 represents The Holy Spirit.

The five wise virgins had a 'spare vessel'... of that Oil to go with the Oil already in their lamps. The five foolish virgins had only the Oil that was in their lamps. The lamps of the five foolish virgins ran out of the Oil as midnight approached with the Bridegroom coming.

Lord Jesus could not have been more clear with that ten virgin parable that the five foolish virgins were heeding something else other than The Holy Spirit, otherwise they would have had that spare vessel of the Oil at the start, like the five wise virgins had.

Now one does not have more or less of The Holy Spirit literally, but instead a more or less understanding by... The Holy Spirit depending on what and who we listen to. Thus the 'spare vessel' of the Oil (Holy Spirit) represents a 'greater understanding' from listening to The Holy Spirit, instead of men's leaven doctrines.

The market which the five foolish virgins were told to go and buy more of the Oil for lamps that had burned out, represents the leaven traditions of men of this world, which are designed to deceive. God allows that deceptive working by men so as to prove us, to see if we will listen to Him and His Son in His Word, or to men's doctrines. The five foolish virgins actually thought they could go to that 'market' and 'buy' The Holy Spirit. It represents their trusting in man more than in God and His Word.
nice try we were specifially discussing Jesus promise to the 12 in John 16:13- He will guide you into all truth. And here in John 14:26 - But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.
 
This is an excellent point, Complete. Consider the words (that no one notices it seems). Here is Paul speaking to believers who have been born again of the Spirit, who is the life of God, and yet he says they are "dead" in the verses you presented to us, Co 3:3-4. One would think those who have the life of God in them would be anything but dead, wouldn't one? How does one process what we are told here?

Well, for one thing, it provokes me to be sure of my definitions of words God uses to advance his doctrines. This is the reason I reject the definitions that I have been given by some religious groups, such as the Calvinists, who systematically butchers the meaning of the word death that God forwards in his revelation to us and by doing so, confuses sound doctrine.

The revelation of the truths of God, such as the translation or the gathering together of the church and the dispensations of God, are "word" revelations. One must believe the words but they must accept them within the context of the structure of God's purposes in his unfolding drama of redemption of sinners. When ones does this, he must receive the words as the absolute authority of God, until Jesus Christ comes for us.

I have given the definition of the Bible word "dispensation" is other threads. How it is defined is important.

The reason we have these disagreements, IMO, is that we do not have the same definitions for the words.
Hello @JD731,

Thank you for responding to my entry. :)

I understand 'death' in the context of Colossians 3:3-4 to be understood in relation to God's reckoning. It is He that has identified us with Christ in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand, in the spirit. It is He that having reckoned us to be 'in Christ' is able to thereby declare us to be 'accepted in the Beloved', 'Holy and without blame', 'made meet for the inheritance of the saints in light'. Regardless of our state in the flesh. Just as He has imputed His own righteousness to us, on the basis of faith, so He is able to see us, as those who have risen from the dead and who now walk in newness of life before Him in Christ. Without spot and blameless! What amazing grace! We are reckoned to be 'complete in Christ'. What wondrous grace!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
nice try we were specifially discussing Jesus promise to the 12 in John 16:13- He will guide you into all truth.
Like I said before, that 'gift' of The Holy Spirit Comforter, is for ALL... believers on Christ Jesus, not just Christ's 12 Apostles, so also does that idea of being taught by The Holy Spirit apply to all... believers on Christ Jesus, for that is what The Holy Spirit gift is for. And those in Christ are to be SEALED by The Holy Spirit for the end events coming upon the world.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Acts 10:45-47
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
KJV


1 Cor 2:11-16
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?
But we have the mind of Christ.
KJV


Sorry to say it brother, but there's more things in heaven and earth than in your philosophy, Iago. (Shakespeare)
 
Like I said before, that 'gift' of The Holy Spirit Comforter, is for ALL... believers on Christ Jesus, not just Christ's 12 Apostles, so also does that idea of being taught by The Holy Spirit apply to all... believers on Christ Jesus, for that is what The Holy Spirit gift is for. And those in Christ are to be SEALED by The Holy Spirit for the end events coming upon the world.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Acts 10:45-47
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
KJV


1 Cor 2:11-16
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him?
But we have the mind of Christ.
KJV


Sorry to say it brother, but there's more things in heaven and earth than in your philosophy, Iago. (Shakespeare)
The gift of the Holy Spirit is not the same as what was specifically promised to the 12 you are conflating the two. Also there are different gifts within the body- not all are apostles, not all are prophets, not all are teachers, not all are pastors, not all are x,y,z. Different giftings are given to the body.

hope this helps !!!
 
The gift of the Holy Spirit is not the same as what was specifically promised to the 12 you are conflating the two. Also there are different gifts within the body- not all are apostles, not all are prophets, not all are teachers, not all are pastors, not all are x,y,z. Different giftings are given to the body.

hope this helps !!!
I've already said my peace, and showed you the 1 Corinthians 2:11-16 Scripture by Apostle Paul speaking about all 'faithful'... brethren that believe on Jesus Christ. One is either 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit for the end, or they are not. And for those brethren who are not... sealed... this will be their fate, if they live long enough to reach the coming great tribulation...

Rev 9:3-5
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV
 
I've already said my peace, and showed you the 1 Corinthians 2:11-16 Scripture by Apostle Paul speaking about all 'faithful'... brethren that believe on Jesus Christ. One is either 'sealed' by The Holy Spirit for the end, or they are not. And for those brethren who are not... sealed... this will be their fate, if they live long enough to reach the coming great tribulation...

Rev 9:3-5
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree;
but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV
Still conflating the new birth with all truth
 
Yes, I'm familiar with Apostle Paul's "blessed hope" of Titus 2:13, which the Pre-trib Rapture doctors abuse to make you think to exclude Christ's commandment to WATCH the SIGNS of the end He gave leading up to His coming so we would not be deceived.​
Which is better then, just a 'hope' that we won't be deceived, or knowing what is coming that Jesus told us so we won't be deceived?​
We cannot just 'hope' we will be among the five wise virgins of Matthew 25 that had the SPARE VESSEL of OIL (Holy Spirit). Jesus showed what will happen to those five foolish virgins that didn't get the spare vessel of The Oil. And what did Jesus show The Holy Spirit Comforter is for? to teach us all things (John 14:26).​
'Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour
Jesus Christ;
'

(Tit 2:13)

Hello @DavP,

How wonderful this is, isn't it? My 'hope' holds no uncertainty, it is as sure as God Himself, because it is of Him. :)

In regard to the warnings given to be watchful, in regard to the Lord's coming: to what company of people were those warnings made? Were they the members of the Body of Christ? No. For those warnings were given prior to the revelation given to Paul concerning the Church which is Christ's Body, of which He is the head.

* Matthew 24, was written in response to the questions asked of Him by His disciples, in Matthew 24:3:-

'And as He sat upon the mount of Olives,
the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,

1) Tell us, when shall these things be? and
2) what shall be the sign of Thy coming,
3) and of the end of the world?
(Mat 24:3)​

* it is in response to question number two that the Lord says, 'Watch therefore' :-

'Watch therefore,
for ye know neither the day nor the hour
wherein the Son of man cometh.'
(Mat 25:13)​

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hello @JD731,

Thank you for responding to my entry. :)

I understand 'death' in the context of Colossians 3:3-4 to be understood in relation to God's reckoning. It is He that has identified us with Christ in His death, burial, quickening, resurrection and ascension to God's right hand, in the spirit. It is He that having reckoned us to be 'in Christ' is able to thereby declare us to be 'accepted in the Beloved', 'Holy and without blame', 'made meet for the inheritance of the saints in light'. Regardless of our state in the flesh. Just as He has imputed His own righteousness to us, on the basis of faith, so He is able to see us, as those who have risen from the dead and who now walk in newness of life before Him in Christ. Without spot and blameless! What amazing grace! We are reckoned to be 'complete in Christ'. What wondrous grace!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Amen Complete, I like your style. I think you are right on. Ephesians deals with the mystery of us in Christ and Colossians deals with the mystery of Christ in us, the hope of glory. I have found that scripture is logical and reasonable and sensible when it is considered in it's context and it's themes. Death, for instance, is the opposite of life.

If a man is physically dead (because he dies) when his soul departs his body and he is spiritually alive when he receives the Spirit of Christ into his body as a permanent resident while he is physically alive, never to leave him or forsake him, (because he was spiritually dead from his physical birth without him) and that event is called the second birth and becoming the image of Christ and of God, why is that not logical and reasonable and simple to understand? (not saying you don't understand it but some here don't) Why do we struggle and misunderstand the meaning of life and death?

Death just means SEPARATION and that is all it means. Physical death is the separation of the body and the soul and spiritual death is the absence of the Spirit of God in the body. The first part of that needs no proof and the second part is proven here in simple terms.

Ro 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The transaction of salvation is receiving the Spirit, who is life, into the body by faith in the promise of God the Father to give him when we trust Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross. Praise God for his wonderful gift.

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 
Is there any justification for recognizing the time in which a Christian now lives as different from the time in which Adam and Eve lived prior to the fall? Well, of course it is, how is it different? The same questions might be asked in regard to other times as well. What about the time prior to Noah’s flood?… They were like totally running amok. The time Israel was in Egypt?… Israel’s conquest of Canaan?… Israel under the Judges and Kings?… Daniel’s day?… When Israel was under Babylonian captivity?

In Dispensationalism I see that there are at least five different periods with their own distinctiveness:

1. Man in a period prior to the fall
2. Man as fallen
3. Man under the old covenant, before the Cross
4. Man since the historic fact of Christ’s Cross and resurrection
5. Redeemed man as ruling with Christ over a changed earth.

I think it would be hard to find any sincere Bible-believer who is willing to raise issue against such clear and basic divisions in the Word of God, whether they are called dispensations or not. In this sense, every true believer of Bible-truth is a dispensationalist even when the kindred camp most sharply contrasted with dispensationalism—namely, Covenant Theology Is introduced to the conversation.

If you want to understand dispensationalism, buy a Scofield reference Bible. I had one. I gave it away. I didn't care much for the notes.
 
If you want to understand dispensationalism, buy a Scofield reference Bible. I had one. I gave it away. I didn't care much for the notes.
Consider this, since dispensation is a Bible word. This fact cannot be denied. It was written first in the Greek language but was translated into English exactly as God wanted it translated. The word appears 7 times in the New Testament. It is a wonderful truth that God uses this number 7 for completeness. He breaks this number down into 4+3, or 3+4. I am not going to prove this right now with examples from the Bible But I can and the careful student of the word of God will know this. Even the Bible itself is divided into old and new testaments. There are four thousand years in the OT and 3 thousand years in the new testament and when time will be no more there will have been 7000 years to complete what God is doing in it.

3622 οἰκονομία oikonomia [oy-kon-om-ee’-ah]
from 3623; n f; TDNT-5:151,674; [{See TDNT 539 }]

AV-dispensation 4, stewardship 3; 7

Take a look at this:

Lu 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship <3622>; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Lu 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship <3622>: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
Lu 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship <3622>, they may receive me into their houses.

1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation <3622> of the gospel is committed unto me.
Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation <3622> of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (this is the 5th time the word appears - the #5 is God's number for grace - This gathering of the saints denotes what is commonly referred to as the rapture of the body to meet the head, the Lord, in the air, and completes the dispensation of grace as an operative principle of divine dealing with men on the earth )
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation <3622> of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: (gentile-ward)
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation <3622> of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Here is a good meaning of the word dispensation. I have given it before;

1) An exemption from a rule or usual requirement
2) A a system of order, government, or organization of a nation, community, etc., especially as existing at a particular time
3) The action of distributing or supplying something.

Now, the Law of Moses, the operative principle of divine dealing under which Jesus Christ ministered to Israel during his incarnation was done away at his death. (Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one which believeth Ro 10:4). This law would be a hindrance to the purpose of God for this age, which is to create one new man from all Jewish and all gentile believers in Christ and baptize them into one body by the Spirit and govern them in this age, while it is being formed, with spiritual laws, Christ himself being the inward power of each individual in the body, as well as the corporate whole, to obey those laws.

Now I could write a lot about this because I know this subject, but I do not want this post to get too long. Therefore I will present the following few verses for the reader to ponder in light of the meaning of the word dispensation.

Pay attention that Paul is addressing gentiles to whom the door of faith was opened 10 years after the Jews were beginning to get saved in Acts 2. Before God opened the door he wanted to be sure Peter was separated from the ceremonial law the Jews had practiced under the mosaic law for 1500 years, that is the law of eating unclean animals. God gave some unclean animals to Peter to eat, for those who know Acts 10. (see #1) in the definition above).

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 ¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

The Jews were enjoying the benefits of the New Covenant because it had been promised to them while they were living under the dictates of the old covenant. The promise to them was that the outward law they were observing, and doing a poor job at, was by their own conscious and power but God would send his Spirit in them and they would have the law written on the fleshly tables of their hearts. This is what began to happen in Acts 2 at Pentecost when they began to receive the Spirit of God into their bodies. But this was not the mystery of Ephesians. The gentiles had no such promises and yet in Acts 10 and the year 40 AD God created the environment for the gentiles to be the recipients of this same Spirit to live in our bodies when we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and to be sons of God by this new birth and equal with the Jews who had been born again. The mystery is the new man who was created from the infusion of both these people groups into a new body, the body of Christ as equal and as one.

This is an entrance into the body by the Jews under the divine principle of "promise." Since the gentiles had no promise from God and it was the idea of God to accept them into the body, he did so under the divine principle of grace and at a later time than with the Jews. The man God chose to explain all this grace doctrine, Saul of Tarsus, did not even get saved until AD 37/38.

When the Roman general Titus in AD 70 attacked Jerusalem and destroyed their temple and worship system and drove them out of their land into the nations, they lost their national identity and were considered by God as gentiles. At this time the church took on a distinct gentile character as typified by eight Jewish men who took gentiles wives in the OT. Jesus will have a gentile bride.

If one makes his approach to the scriptures in any fashion but by a dispensational view, he will have little success in arriving at sound doctrine. God is a dispensationalist. He created them.
 
'Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour
Jesus Christ;
'

(Tit 2:13)

Hello @DavP,

How wonderful this is, isn't it? My 'hope' holds no uncertainty, it is as sure as God Himself, because it is of Him. :)
Of course all... those in Christ Jesus are hopeful for His future coming. But that's not the point regarding His commandment for us to be watching the Signs of the end He gave us.

In regard to the warnings given to be watchful, in regard to the Lord's coming: to what company of people were those warnings made? Were they the members of the Body of Christ? No. For those warnings were given prior to the revelation given to Paul concerning the Church which is Christ's Body, of which He is the head.


* Matthew 24, was written in response to the questions asked of Him by His disciples, in Matthew 24:3:-

'And as He sat upon the mount of Olives,
the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,
1) Tell us, when shall these things be? and
2) what shall be the sign of Thy coming,
3) and of the end of the world?
(Mat 24:3)​
That's one of the poorest excuses the edited Pre-trib Rapture theory ever came up with.

Per Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2, Christ's Apostles are included in the 'foundation' of His Church, as written...

Eph 2:19-21
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
KJV


So how... can any believer ever say Christ's Apostles were NOT members of His Church??

By your saying that means you simply believed the edited Pre-trib Rapture theory preachers have told you. And do you know why... they tell you that lie? It's because they do not want you to study Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS of the end to be watching per Christ's commandment to His Church. And that especially... because in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture Lord Jesus showed that His coming to gather His saints is AFTER... the tribulation, and not prior to the tribulation like the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors falsely preach.

And obviously you also do not know, that Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 parallel the SEALS of Revelation 6. So who did Lord Jesus give His Book of Revelation to? His Church!
 
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Of course all... those in Christ Jesus are hopeful for His future coming. But that's not the point regarding His commandment for us to be watching the Signs of the end He gave us.


That's one of the poorest excuses the devils behind the false Pre-trib Rapture theory ever came up with.

Per Apostle Paul in Ephesians 2, Christ's Apostles are included in the 'foundation' of His Church, as written...

Eph 2:19-21
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
KJV


So how... can any believer ever say Christ's Apostles were NOT members of His Church??

By your saying that means you simply believed the balderdash lies your false Pre-trib Rapture theory preachers have told you. And do you know why... they tell you that lie? It's because they do not want you to study Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS of the end to be watching per Christ's commandment to His Church. And that especially... because in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture Lord Jesus showed that His coming to gather His saints is AFTER... the tribulation, and not prior to the tribulation like the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors falsely preach.

And obviously you also do not know, that Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS of Matthew 24 and Mark 13 parallel the SEALS of Revelation 6. So who did Lord Jesus give His Book of Revelation to? His Church!
Hello @DavP,

If you want to discuss anything with me you do so in a civil manner.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
God deals with humans differently, at different times, over the history of time.

Notice that there was no Law of Moses in the Garden of Eden.

Then you had Moses's Law that was a part of the old covenant, until this started..= . "The Law came by Moses, but Grace and Truth came by Jesus The Christ'.

See that change. ??

So, Once the Cross was raised, God began dealing with man differently than he was dealing with the Jews, in the OT.

This "time of the gentiles" will end, and the Trib/GrtTrb will come into play, and once again, God is dealing with the Jew, primarily.


You see that there is an Old Covenant, and and New one.
There is an Old Testament and a New One.

So, all of these changes, can be defined as "dispensational", but that word makes some religious people very upset.
So, lets not upset anyone, and instead lets say that all those CHANGES are "progressive revelation" as that is what the Bible is all about.

Its showing the progression of God's dealing with man, from Genesis to The Revelation.

Its showing the Foreknowledge of God.......reader.

That is what the Bible is all about....
 
Those people who have attached themselves to Christendom in it's various expressions of denominations and other groupings are fulfilling a prophesy of our Lord Jesus Christ himself in Matthew 13, where he concisely describes and prefigures this present age we are living in, since his resurrection from the dead, in seven parables that he calls the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus gives these parables AFTER the judicial blinding of Israel, the people of God, for their failure to receive him as their promised Messiah and Prince. Matthew 10-12 is at the end of his earthly ministry and records a showdown between himself and the Jewish rulers. It was at this time they decided he had to die.

The prophesy of his coming is all through the prophets and Psalms and begins in Gen 3:15 where God prepares a highway for the seed of the woman who would one day rule over a regenerated world. He fully expected his own generation to receive him and embrace him as the fulfillment of those prophesies, but they did not. That generation was cursed and it ended in 70 AD when that spiritually dead nation also died physically and was buried in the graveyard of the gentile nations.

What happened on earth during those 40 years after Jesus ascended to heaven were two groups of Jews, divided by the person of Jesus Christ. A few Jews who did embrace Jesus Christ as Messiah and most who did not. The first parable in Matt 13 has a man, Jesus Christ, sowing seed in some packed ground in the field. The first ground equates with the first 7 years when no one was equipped to preach his resurrection besides his 12 apostles and 70 elders who had been with him all during his ministry on earth and were eye witnesses to everything he said and did. The gospel of Jesus Christ depends on eye witness accounts by preachers who had been born again by that gospel. The foundation of the church of Jesus Christ MUST be laid by eye witnesses of his person and his resurrection. The building would go up by adding those who believed their testimony though no one since has seen the resurrected Jesus Christ except Paul, to whom Jesus showed himself a recorded 3 times and revealed to him the "mysteries" of this age, which are the doctrines of the church of Jesus Christ. The mystery is that it is a gentile church in character resting on a Jewish foundation and it is reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus Christ and has a promise, the blessed hope of glorification in a new body..

The other 3 parts of the field were described as history progressed in the Acts until the entire field was sown. Take a look at what Paul said in AD 60 when he wrote the epistle I am quoting;

Col 1:21 And you (particularly gentiles in context, many, if not most, of whom were of the ten northern kingdom of Israel who were driven from their land in 722 BC and reckoned by God as gentiles when out of their promised land and under other government authority), that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

Colossae was in the province of Asia.

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

There may not be more than two other souls posting here that will believe the above scriptures word for word, especially what I have underlined. This is the year AD 60 when Paul wrote this. I believe it.

The man who denies the deliverance of the church of Jesus Christ before the wrath of God is poured out on the unbelievers will have Jesus Christ being punished the second time because we are told that not only are we in him but he is in us. If we are under the wrath of God, so is he, because we are one with him. How many times does our Lord Jesus have to suffer for our sins before we are delivered from them?

Unbelief and ignorance is unreasonable and illogical.

Here is the progression told us from the prophet Jesus Christ, the Son of God. after his rejection by his countrymen. This was spoken in the temple in Jerusalem on Tuesday before he was crucified on Friday.

Mt 21:
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near (Matt 12 is about a harvest - read it and see for yourselves), he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men (70 AD), and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Historical and dispensational break here:

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: (read Eph 2:20 right here) this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Jesus Christ will gather his church and present it to the Father before the wrath of God (col 1). No one is forced to call it the "rapture." My Bible doesn't, but it does call it the gathering together, (See Ep 1:10) in the beginning of the next dispensation, called the fullness of times. You guys who oppose sound church doctrine can pray to stay here with the man of sin and the devil if you want to, but the church will be taken.
 
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