Dizerner
Active Member
Which is un-Scriptural garbage.
Transmitting The Fallen Nature
- Thread starter Olde Tymer
- Start date
Which is un-Scriptural garbage.
Rather it is a vain attempt to lessen the cognitive dissonance caused by the ideas that babies who have never sinned by volition since they are created in Adam and inherit his sin, but cannot be justly not judged for their sin like everyone else, a conundrum caused by the false idea that we are created here on earth as innocents, as tabula rasa, but die, proving our sinfulness as infant sinners, using a slight bit of double think....
Dizerner
Active Member
Rather it is a vain attempt to lessen the cognitive dissonance caused by the ideas that babies who have never sinned by volition since they are created in Adam and inherit his sin, but cannot be justly not judged for their sin like everyone else, a conundrum caused by the false idea that we are created here on earth as innocents, as tabula rasa, but die, proving our sinfulness as infant sinners, using a slight bit of double think....
It's very telling that you and civic will accept an injustice that YOU like in the name of putting God first.
But when you encounter an injustice you DON'T like you claim you are just standing for morality by resisting it.
If we were to sacrifice our own ideas of justice, TRULY—then this could NEVER be an excuse to reject a doctrine.
He doesn't condemn babies for their sin because sin has been paid for. Indeed, no-one has paid the full price of sin except Christ. God has overlooked sin (Acts 17:30). Now we are condemned, if indeed we are, on our response to Christ. (Jn.3:18)
God condemns no-one on the basis of their sin so being born with a sin nature is not a "ticket to hell" and a false argument.
GeneZ
Active Member
Please... You need to first explain how you see it differently before I can respond to your comment.
GeneZ
Active Member
Paul referred to to where his sin nature resides as "his flesh." His body.
Romans 7:17-20
But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells;
for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good
I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but
the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will
not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Paul saw his body (flesh) as no longer being himself.
(crucified with Christ)
The sin nature was not about his soul which was a slave to the flesh until regeneration took hold.
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civic
Active Member
Dizerner
Active Member
No, there's nothing sinful about a nose, an arm or an ear. It is the Gnostics who made the physical realm and body somehow morally evil.
Notice the works of the flesh include witchcraft and jealously, these are not bodily desires, nor is hunger somehow an evil thing.
Attributing your sin nature to your fleshly body is actually a very self-righteous thing to do, because then you can externalize your sinfulness, blaming your physical body instead what is more fundamentally who you are.
Dizerner
Active Member
Perhaps you could bothered to think for 10 seconds and not misrepresent me by changing spiritual DNA to physical DNA.
Why do you think he uses the metaphor of "birth" and "sonship."
civic
Active Member
There is no DNA with spirit. It’s an oxymoron
GeneZ
Active Member
Its the effect of the flesh in its fallen state upon the soul. The flesh has no mind.
It causes impulses to do wrong that the soul must overcome by means of knowing truth as to not follow those unrighteous impulses.
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want." Galatian 5:17
Men born having unregenerate sinful flesh will have desires that drive and compel him to do wrong.
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil,
nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their
own evil desire and enticed." James 1:13-14
nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their
own evil desire and enticed." James 1:13-14
In contrast to fallen man..
Jesus as a man without a sinful body had to think about his desires, and then choose what to pursue.
Jesus was not compelled and under compulsion by his desires as the fallen flesh imposes upon mankind.
grace and peace
Dizerner
Active Member
Exactly.
And notice his physical body was no different than ours.
Paul called the flesh "sin living in me."
GeneZ
Active Member
Hey....
If what you said were true? It would have been ok to have Joseph to be his human father.
Joseph could not be, because the sin nature is passed down by the male sperm...
Adam was male. Eve was female. Right?
Eve sinned first. Right?
But, it says sin entered the world through Adam who sinned last.
Why not have sin enter the world through the first sinner?
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin,
in this way death spread to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12
The first sinner was not Adam. It was Eve. But, sin did not enter the world through Eve.
Why? Because the female ovum does not transmit the defect to cause the fallen flesh.
And, that is why it says that the Messiah would have to come from the "woman's seed."
Not from the man's seed.
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.” Genesis 3:15
When mankind fell? Men in effect became children of the Devil, because the fallen nature reflects Satan's nature.
In that sense, all fallen mankind are the "seed of the Devil."
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he
who does not love his brother." 1 John 3:10
...................
Dizerner
Active Member
I don't know who taught you this, but their logic is wrong.
Remember what Jesus said about the flesh in the physical sense?
"The flesh profits nothing; the words I speak to you are spirit and life."
"That which is flesh gives birth to flesh; that which is spirit gives birth to spirit."
Now all you need to understand, is that sin is a spiritual thing, not a physical thing.
Sin is concerning attitudes of the heart; remember what Jesus said:
"It is not what goes into the body that defiles, but what comes out of the mouth, the heart."
Now semen is just one more thing that "goes into the body," and Christ specifically said that is not what defiles.
We are born spiritually dead, with a spirit separated from the life of God.
Does that then mean the virgin birth had no meaning or symbolism?
It simply does not logically follow that the virgin birth has to be about semen, it is about a hierarchy of authority.
God bless your journey with him dear friend.
GeneZ
Active Member
Dizerner
Active Member
Yeah, spirits of error are not about logic.
But there are truths even beyond our own logic, as well.
I would never say logic alone is the path to truth, rather the path to pride.
GeneZ
Active Member
Logic is derived from the same root word as Logos is.
The Word is logical. It requires logic in the Spirit to rightly handle.
Emotion driven Christians, Paul said, are enemies of the Cross.
Then He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter,
“What! Could you not watch with Me one hour? Watch and pray, lest you
enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Matthew 26:40-41
The word "flesh" is not one dimensional as you have it. It can refer to what are the desires of the body.
And, it can also mean 'body.'
Genesis 40:19
Leviticus 26:29
Psalm 50:13
Dizerner
Active Member
That's not what Paul said, please don't misquote him.
There are godly emotions.
I never said it was one dimensional, in fact I said the opposite.
GeneZ
Active Member
The word "belly" in the day Paul wrote referred to the emotions.
Just like the term, tender bowels, also spoke of emotions....
Paul said that those who make their emotions their god are enemies of the Cross.
For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are
the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and
whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things." Philippians 3:18-19
This page helps to explain the word usage.
https://godsword.org/blogs/compare-bible-verses/philippians-3-18-21#:~:text=I have often told you,the shameful things they do.
