NO, only EVERY SINNER dies. No holy and elect angel has ever manifested here and died. That only sinners are sown into the world, both sinful people of the kingdom and sinful people of the evil one, Matt 13:36-39, makes it seem like all creation must die.
Transmitting The Fallen Nature
- Thread starter Olde Tymer
- Start date
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
I'm a born again, Christian, and I'm going to die (in the near future, just like my firstborn daughter did, and YOU WILL).
Physical death is unimportant. SPIRITUAL DEATH is where the problem is. SO- you're contention is that ALL BABIES, aborted Fetuses, and very young Children are ALL hell-bound. Right??
A lot of the mysteries are merely the failure to explain a wrong doctrine as truth...sigh.
In my use of this phrase I denied the theory of a sin nature inherited from Adam... If you are right, I am wrong...
RIGHT!! Their sin nature that separated them from their GOD taught them the truth of how the Hebrew culture works and that they were going to be born within its laws...
Puleease....
Then why does God bother to raise our physical bodies form the grave? He doesn't need them to create our spiritual bodies, He is able to create from nothing.
No. Christ died for the sin of the world. To those who cannot give a response to Christ because of their age or other mental incapacity are saved. A sparrow doesn't fall to the ground without His permission, so you can bet your sweet bippy no-one will be lost because they are unable, only those who are unwilling go to the lake of fire.
My answer is that sin doesn't pass on, only death. My thesis is that we all lived pre-earth and sinned in that life. Only sinners are flung into Sheol in the earth, Rev 12:4-9, to be sown later into mankind, Matt 13:36-39, and a sinners, they are liable to the wages of sin from the git go.
Dizerner
Active Member
Sure, it can make you feel better, and lot of people feel they need to believe this to accept God.
God is still God either way, and an unwillingness to accept a moral difficulty is a sign of a sinful heart.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
It's a good "Attention getter" don'cha know. It apparently happened after the crucifixion.
Personally in the "Rapture" (assuming that you think there'll be one), it's MY OPINION that we won't "Disappear", but will just die in place, leaving the world's governments to have to deal with millions of people dying simultaneously for absolutely no reason at all over the world.
SO much for imputed "Original Sin". I agree.
WRONG!
You are using a false extrapolation of my thesis unto absurdity to supposedly make your point. Dead infants are treated according to their previously chosen relationship with YHWH as their GOD and Saviour or as a false god and a liar, the exact same way all other dead are treated.
Those who put their faith in HIM are, as HIS ELECT good seed and sheep gone astray into sin, sent at death to be with HIM and those who rebuked HIM and so are condemned already are sent back to Sheol from where they came, Ps 9:17 in which the KJV is translated wrongly for eisegetic purposes.
Last edited:
Dizerner
Active Member
You do realize sinners are who Jesus died for.
It is the application of the atonement in question here.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
SO you have No Idea at all.
No moral difficulty as far as I am concerned. The man who was willing to die for sinners is the same God who is willing to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
He calls us to believe in His Son. This is impossible for a baby to do. Do you consider God so callous as to demand the impossible and then condemn on the basis of what He knows cannot be done?
God is knowing who believes and who won't from the "time before time". He would not let a child die if He knew they would not believe otherwise they would have no knowledge as to why they end up in the lake of fire because they have no works that can be judged.
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
Really? There are some who will not die.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Obadiah
Active Member
Looks like we are born with a fallen nature. It's what I've always heard. But I could be wrong.
Behold, I was brought forth in [a state of] iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me [and I too am sinful].
Psalm 51:5
What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit
John 3:6
Therefore, as sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men, [no one being able to stop it or to escape its power] because all men sinned
Rom. 5:12
Among these we as well as you once lived and conducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh [our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature], obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind [our cravings dictated by our senses and our dark imaginings]. We were then by nature children of [God’s] wrath and heirs of [His] indignation, like the rest of mankind.
Eph. 2:3
Behold, I was brought forth in [a state of] iniquity; my mother was sinful who conceived me [and I too am sinful].
Psalm 51:5
What is born of [from] the flesh is flesh [of the physical is physical]; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit
John 3:6
Therefore, as sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men, [no one being able to stop it or to escape its power] because all men sinned
Rom. 5:12
Among these we as well as you once lived and conducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh [our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature], obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind [our cravings dictated by our senses and our dark imaginings]. We were then by nature children of [God’s] wrath and heirs of [His] indignation, like the rest of mankind.
Eph. 2:3
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
Of Course NO BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN will die spiritually, but we'll ALL die physically. there's no place in Heaven for "Flesh and Blood".
Dizerner
Active Member
No, I don't.
Most theologians will say the Bible does not seem to tell us.
But the Bible DOES tell us that ALL have sinned.
So we should accept what is revealed.
Paul was talking about the resurrection of the body. We who are alive are physically alive at the time. So no, not everyone will die physically.
Dizerner
Active Member
I think it would be very, very presumptuous of me to call an action of God "callous" when I don't have all understanding and moral purity.
He may very well have a holy and justified reason for doing something that my sinful nature may not naturally see or respect.
You need to understand something—that if I went by your logic above here, I would already reject God due to the problem of evil.
It's not "okay" with me that he lets babies be born deformed and sexually abused and never loved, and this I know 100% has happened.
It seems "calloused" to me and like God is a "monster" and the very opposite of "goodness, justice and love."
Now who is in the right, me or God? Who is the monster me, or God? Who is calloused, me or God? Who is evil, me or God?
See, when we base decisions on how we feel about something, we are not basing them on God as the ultimate value, but us.
I hear people say things like "If God did [such and such], I would never worship him, I would never accept a God like that."
That's rebellion against the Most High.
