Transmitting The Fallen Nature

[sawdust]

By quoting the first verse of the Psalm it was a declaration is why. In the sane psalm it says He wasn’t forsaken and God heard His prayers

So why don’t you believe the rest of the psalm ?

For the umpteenth time Civic, He had become as sin. He was not Himself (as it were) for the three hours He carried our sin in His body. He was being forsaken because of our sin. Darkness covered the land and the sun was made dark because of our sin. He was forsaken at the start of that Psalm. Why do you ignore that? What has righteousness to do with unrighteousness. Absolutely nothing!

Ps.22:2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;

Once Christ had completed His mission of carrying our sin?

"It is finished"

Now the Lord answers Him, now God becomes Father again.

Ps.22:21b You have answered Me.

This is after His afflictions have been counted and He has been brought down to the dust of death. (v.15)

"Father into your hands I commit my spirit."

 

[sawdust]

through the payment of a penalty

Now you are getting it. Being cut off from God (spiritual death) and dying physically is the penalty of sin. This is what Christ endured on our behalf. He felt the full effects of what that means so we can be redeemed from it and reconciled to God. It's a penalty we could not endure and live.

 

[sawdust]

It is interesting that Jesus asks why he is being foresaken in his afflicted state but the Psalmist declares that the Father does not foresake those who are afflicted. That exposes and answers a significant portion of the mystery.

But the Psalmist does declare Christ is forsaken when he says "you do not hear me". See my post #1001.

 

[sawdust]

Elaborate story? No. I haven't. I gave a simple explanation that true to the Scriptures. Ultimately. Believe what you want to believe. You're not my servant. Just don't pretend there isn't alternate choices here. There is.

Christ's life left His body. The Father never abandoned The Son. Never.

Then He should have said "my life, my life why have you forsaken me." Christ was saying God had forsaken Him and this He indeed did while Christ was made to be sin.

 

[GeneZ]

The difference is that a young maiden can conceive (out of wedlock) whereas a virgin cannot.

Under Jewish Law she could be stoned to death.. It was not the norm to think that way. .. Its under Jewish Law that it took place.

 

[GeneZ]

Am I correct is saying that your ancestors are Jewish? I just want to be sure. If so, could I ask you a question? What do Jews say about all the Greek-speaking Hellenized Jews that converted to Christianity? I know it's a long time ago but I heard that one of the greatest disasters to befall the Jews is when the Alexandrian Hellenized Jews created the Septuagint (LXX). That's because the LXX opened the flood gates into Christianity. Have you heard anything about that in your circles, whether Jewish or Christian?

This just came out the 29th on You Tube.

Of all things.. it covers a part of Isaiah 53.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then He should have said "my life, my life why have you forsaken me." Christ was saying God had forsaken Him and this He indeed did while Christ was made to be sin.

Geesh... Really?

I've said this before and I'll say it again. There is a reason that Christ didn't "come right out" and remove any all doubt in everything He said.

That reason is for men to seek Him. To "wet your appetite" for things above. Things that only come from an intimate relationship with Him. I didn't get what l'm telling you directly from someone else. I studied. I mediated on the subject. This is what I believe relative to the revelation of Scripture. Don't believe me. Make your own choices. I'm not looking for followers to control.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus is speaking words of Psalm 22 so maybe we should look at Psalm 22, you think?

Let's first understand that contextually Psalm 22 pertains exactly to the Crucifixion:

Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all My bones are spread apart; My heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of My bowels.
Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and My tongue clings to My jaws;
Psa 22:16 and You have brought Me into the dust of death. For dogs have circled around Me; the band of spoilers have hemmed Me in, piercers of My hands and My feet.
Psa 22:17 I can count all My bones; they look and stare at Me.
Psa 22:18 They divide My garments among them and cast lots for My clothing.

Now what about God the Father?:

Psa 22:23 You who fear Jehovah, praise Him; all of you, the seed of Jacob, glorify Him; and fear Him all the seed of Israel.
Psa 22:24 For He has not despised nor hated the affliction of the afflicted; and He has not hidden His face from him, but when he cried to Him, He heard.
Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of You in the great congregation; I will pay My vows before the ones who fear Him.
Psa 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek Jehovah shall praise Him; your heart shall live forever.
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn to Jehovah; and all the families of the nations shall worship before You.
Psa 22:28 For the kingdom is Jehovah's; and He is the ruler among the nations.
Psa 22:29 All the fat ones on the earth shall eat and worship; all those who go down to the dust shall bow before Him; and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve Him; it shall be spoken of Jehovah to the coming generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare His righteousness to a people that shall yet be born, that He has done this.

So how does one make sense out of the fact that on the one hand Jesus asks not to be foresaken; whereas, the Psalmist declares that the Father does not despise, does not hate, does not hide from, and always hears the afflicted?

The key is that Jesus is in Full Control. He is the one who called the shots in this situation. When he cried out Psalm 22, IT WAS FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES OVER! Almost immediately, God the Father brightened the day signifying it's over and shortly after Christ gave up his spirit, proclaiming that its FINISHED! CHRIST IS IN FULL CONTROL! Everything happened in rapid succession. Christ initiated it all with Psalm 22. The barrier between God and man was destroyed! Jesus proved to be our Expiation as a sin-offering. Don't let your Nestorianism or Arianism blind you from acknowledging Him as the Uncreated Word of God who is in FULL CONTROL.

CC: @civic , @praise_yeshua , @GeneZ

I remember the first time I really studied Psalm 22. I had to tell others how they were wrong about the narrative they received from their favorite sources.

God saw the suffering of the Servant. I remember all that junk I was taught. I can remember how I was taught that the darkness hid the sin placed upon Christ from God's view......

Even the MT talks of God seeing the travail of Christ in Isa 53. I realized that I had been lied to. It caused to go find it myself.

 

[sawdust]

Don't believe me.

I don't.

Make your own choices.

I am.

I'm not looking for followers to control.

Why would it even enter your head I, or anyone, would want to follow you?

I didn't get what l'm telling you directly from someone else. I studied. I mediated on the subject.

So have I. There are atheists who study theology. It's hardly a commendation that one studies.

 

[civic]

For the umpteenth time Civic, He had become as sin. He was not Himself (as it were) for the three hours He carried our sin in His body. He was being forsaken because of our sin. Darkness covered the land and the sun was made dark because of our sin. He was forsaken at the start of that Psalm. Why do you ignore that? What has righteousness to do with unrighteousness. Absolutely nothing!

Ps.22:2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;

Once Christ had completed His mission of carrying our sin?

"It is finished"

Now the Lord answers Him, now God becomes Father again.

Ps.22:21b You have answered Me.

This is after His afflictions have been counted and He has been brought down to the dust of death. (v.15)

"Father into your hands I commit my spirit."

You have God no longer immutable because of something outside of God. You have God no longer Self Sufficient because of the same thing. Man and sin has changed Gods being and is greater than God. This whole doctrine goes back to Gods nature and His attributes. Your view destroys the Tri- Unity of God and makes His immutable attributes mutable. It’s nonsense.

 

[civic]

I remember the first time I really studied Psalm 22. I had to tell others how they were wrong about the narrative they received from their favorite sources.

God saw the suffering of the Servant. I remember all that junk I was taught. I can remember how I was taught that the darkness hid the sin placed upon Christ from God's view......

Even the MT talks of God seeing the travail of Christ in Isa 53. I realized that I had been lied to. It caused to go find it myself.

It mocks the Tri- Unity and Immutability of God. They make man and sin greater than God.

 

[civic]

Sorry..

But you are not using iron by what you do.....

What you attempt does not end up making you any one any sharper.

Sad to report, what you and Synergy keep trying makes me to think you are a hopeless cause.....

For, even the most simple things that you are shown?
You keep finding are responses that I see are lame and inane ways, needing to keep rejecting. Done in ways that makes no sense Scripturally...

You do not give genuine counters designed to make one think. What you give are dull and blunt.
Its more like what the RCC did in demanding obedience to their "official" non-biblical dogma.

This is what really hurts....
It could make me to lose hope about you.

I Figure? You might be playing stupid in a desire to test me.
If you are? The way you do it makes me give up hope by thinking you have no capacity for the truth you keep denying.

What would give me hope?

If you said something more like...

"Yes, the Word of God does say that Jesus was being forsaken. ​

I just do not know how that is possible!"​

Instead?

You blindly declare that the Words of Jesus are actually misleading us because it does not line up with your sect's subjective thinking.

When one knows what Jesus said, and can not figure out why? They should hand it to the Lord and be silent.
Silent until the day the Lord shows you what is needed to be understood. But, what you do? Is to latch onto odd
rationalizations that some pseudo intellectual concocted, and declare it to be the the answer. It is like you are
mentally swerving on black ice when you do that.

God only honors sound doctrinal thinking....... Not, good intentions, or having human type noble thoughts towards God.

Peter was by human standards being highly noble in the following passage.

​

From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, ​

and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, ​

and be raised the third day.​

​

Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, ​

“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”​

​

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, ​

for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”​

It can seem to be very noble (by our natural human standards) to declare that the Father could never possibly forsake the humanity
of Christ (while He was being immersed into our sins).

But, Jesus and the Bible say He was being forsaken.

It makes me wonder what spirit, like Peter, might be guiding you when you do that.

In Christ......

Your god is not immutable and is not a Tri- Unity but a mutable Dis- Unity. your sin is greater than God and caused a division and separation in the Godhead. A god who is not God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

Now you are getting it. Being cut off from God (spiritual death) and dying physically is the penalty of sin. This is what Christ endured on our behalf. He felt the full effects of what that means so we can be redeemed from it and reconciled to God. It's a penalty we could not endure and live.

I'm getting that Christ was our Expiation. He experienced human death, not "spiritual death". It is blasphemy to say that the God Person called Christ experienced spiritual death. God cannot spiritually die. That is impossible.

 

[synergy]

But the Psalmist does declare Christ is forsaken when he says "you do not hear me". See my post #1001.

GZ advised me that Christ's words were a question and I agreed. You need to take that up with GZ.

If you don't want to answer my question, and you haven't yet, then I'll understand:

So how does one make sense out of the fact that on the one hand Jesus asks why he is being foresaken; whereas, the Psalmist declares that the Father does not despise, does not hate, does not hide from, and always hears the afflicted?

 

[synergy]

Under Jewish Law she could be stoned to death.. It was not the norm to think that way. .. Its under Jewish Law that it took place.

The Masoretic Text still attacks the Virgin Birth by removing all references to it.

 

[Olde Tymer]

~
Ol' Dan Tucker was a fine old man
He washed his face in a frying pan.
He combed his hair with a wagon wheel
And died of a toothache in his heel.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Here come old flat top.
He roller coaster,
He got early warning,
He got muddy water,
He one Mojo filter.
He say one and one and one is three,
Got to be good looking,
'Cause he's so hard to see.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

A spinster lady was asked why she never married. Well; she said: I've got a hound
that lays around the house all day, a stove that smokes, and a bird that cusses.
What do I need a man for?

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Q: Why do aliens tend to spill their tea?
A: Because their saucers fly.

Q: Why did the apple pie go to the dentist?
A: Because it needed a filling.
_

 

[GeneZ]

You have God no longer immutable because of something outside of God. You have God no longer Self Sufficient because of the same thing. Man and sin has changed Gods being and is greater than God. This whole doctrine goes back to Gods nature and His attributes. Your view destroys the Tri- Unity of God and makes His immutable attributes mutable. It’s nonsense.

Why was that being mutable? If His Humanity is to be forever the flexible mutable aspect of God in relationship to created life that is mutable?
He is immutably mutable in that aspect!

For we will be forever changing and growing and need to be identified with by God in His communication and IDENTIFICATION with man who will be eternally ever growing....

Some things never change..... Until we are resurrected we shall be making mistakes all the time.

 

[synergy]

This just came out the 29th on You Tube.

Of all things.. it covers a part of Isaiah 53.

Sorry to rain on your parade but the commentator is not using critical thinking when he blasphemes that Jesus underwent spiritual death. If "spiritual death" started when God darkened the Earth at Noon then why did it take Christ 3 hours to realize that "spiritual death" and only then did he ask why he was "forsaken"? Three hours! That's ridiculous. Besides that, it is blasphemous to say that the God Person Christ died spiritually. God cannot die spiritually. Pagan gods die spiritually but not the God we worship.

Conclusion: Don't let others do the thinking for you. Use critical thinking and you will be well on your way to the truth.

 

[GeneZ]

Sorry to rain on your parade but the commentator is not using critical thinking when he blasphemes that Jesus underwent spiritual death. If "spiritual death" started when God darkened the Earth at Noon then why did it take Christ 3 hours to realize that "spiritual death" and only then did he ask why he was "forsaken"? Three hours! That's ridiculous. Besides that, it is blasphemous to say that the God Person Christ died spiritually. God cannot die spiritually. Pagan gods die spiritually but not the God we worship.

Conclusion: Don't let others do the thinking for you. Use critical thinking and you will be well on your way to the truth.

I promise..

I won't let you do my thinking for me..

I like being alive. Not dead.

Your group it appears wants to form into a new Vatican. A new pope group.
Determined to misuse and abuse Christians with their intellectual superiority over the peasant people in churches.

You won't even come close. Because they know when they smell death when they sense it.

What a waste.... Enjoy your existence...

 

[synergy]

I promise..

I won't let you do my thinking for me..

I totally agree that you should use critical thinking on everyone and everything.

Now put on your thinking cap and talk to me on how you view your commentator's illogical thinking and blasphemous comments.