Transmitting The Fallen Nature

[GeneZ]

Ok.

Understood as what? As anthropomorphism?

Not everyone is ready at the same time to understand.

Matthew 11:13-15

"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
Whoever has ears, let them hear."

 

[GeneZ]

The Son became human at the Incarnation- Are you saying He was human before His birth as a man ?

The Son became a man as Adam had been created from the hand of God.

Question:

Will we be called "man" once we are in our resurrection bodies?

We will we still be called humans? Yes.. for we are the soul in the body.
But might the be a new name for the "new creation?"

 

[synergy]

Not everyone is ready at the same time to understand.

Matthew 11:13-15

"For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
Whoever has ears, let them hear."

Sounds like you're afraid to reveal what's in your mind. Suit yourself.

 

[GeneZ]

Sounds like you're afraid to reveal what's in your mind. Suit yourself.

I have not been afraid...

And, I am not afraid to tell you that.

I have watched students in Bible college and in churches struggle with a doctrines that others can accept with understanding.
I am not afraid to tell you that either...

It all depends on what is controlling one's thinking.

The cosmic power sphere, or the Spirit.
The truth will make believers free to determine for themselves.
And, they will determine for themself.

The communicator's job is not to make others agree with what they resist and do not like.
Its his job to make known what is to be made known, and let the chips fall where they may.
When Paul spoke he would split the crowd.

So be it. Others will get what I said. So, I know I am not being clear.

Now if I am in error? Others are simply agreeing with the error.
So, those who agree are not to be my gauge to evaluate the validity of what I say by.

The Lord is my Judge.

 

[GeneZ]

Sounds like you're afraid to reveal what's in your mind. Suit yourself.

Looks like you are afraid to take the time to read what is on my mind.... #580 covered it.
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/transmitting-the-fallen-nature.1078/post-43512

Synergy... You tell me how Jesus was born without a sin nature. I would like to know how you see it.

 

[sawdust]

I believe you are missing what he is getting at... Which is a total misunderstanding of what you have been saying.
Just the same, looks like he is claiming that you are saying Jesus failed and sinned. That's how he's coming across.

He is dead wrong if that is what he intended. But he is setting you up to argue with you without you realizing
what he is arguing against .

I did take it that way, that he thinks I'm saying Jesus failed and sinned.

He has misunderstood a few things I said. C'est la vie!

The fact remains the humanity of Jesus was cut off while He bore our sins, His scream testifies to that. A scream born from perfect faith for Jesus knew it was impossible for God to discard the righteous. For three hours He faced what it was like to be without God and without hope. We only think we are without God and hope at times because we're idiots and fail to look up and see our salvation. Christ knew what it was like without failing.

 

[civic]

I did take it that way, that he thinks I'm saying Jesus failed and sinned.

He has misunderstood a few things I said. C'est la vie!

The fact remains the humanity of Jesus was cut off while He bore our sins, His scream testifies to that. A scream born from perfect faith for Jesus knew it was impossible for God to discard the righteous. For three hours He faced what it was like to be without God and without hope. We only think we are without God and hope at times because we're idiots and fail to look up and see our salvation. Christ knew what it was like without failing.

The broken Trinity is what you described above, an impossibility and a heretical teaching

 

[e v e]

this body is the fallen nature.
the flesh body.

 

[synergy]

Looks like you are afraid to take the time to read what is on my mind.... #580 covered it.
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/transmitting-the-fallen-nature.1078/post-43512

Synergy... You tell me how Jesus was born without a sin nature. I would like to know how you see it.

What we all inherit from Adam is the consequences of Adam's sin, death. Death is passed on from both parents to offspring, not Adam's sin. Adam is responsible for his sins just as I'm responsible for mine. It's a travesty of justice to force another to account for my sins. The transmission of Adam's sin is a heresy started with Augustine. I don't believe Augustine, I believe the Bible.

Therefore, there's no such thing as original guilt. Guilt is not transmitted, death is. It's part of our genetic makeup.

The Incarnation eschatologically purified human nature. That means it's something we'll see in the fulness of time.

 

[GeneZ]

The broken Trinity is what you described above, an impossibility and a heretical teaching

There was no broken Trinity.

How was the Trinity (Deity) broken?
Is the soul of Jesus God? No!
He has two natures in Union.

But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; ​

the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed." Isaiah 53:5​

It was his soul alone (not His Deity) that was cut off from fellowship with God by our sins piercing Him.
While on the Cross the Deity of Jesus remained being One with the Trinity.

You are a regenerated soul. Right?
You have the Holy Spirit indwelling your body. Romans 8:9

Now, if you stubbornly keep on sinning? And enter into grieving and then quenching the Holy Spirit?
Does the Trinity cease because your soul is cut off from fellowship with the Spirit?????

No. The Trinity remains being the Trinity in spite of you sins.

Your assumption has been that the soul of Jesus is God. Its a soul. Not God in itself.
God who is foreign to man's thinking is expressing Himself to men via the Soul of Jesus.
Using the Soul of Jesus as God's means for making Himself "knowable" to men!

No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, ​

Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him ​

[He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him ​

and He has made Him known]. John 1:18​

That is saying what?

For us to see Jesus?

Is to be seeing God being interpreted by the Soul of Jesus in a manner that man will be able to comprehend God.
Why? For we are souls!

Jesus is God to us because God has sovereignly given the Soul of Jesus full access to knowing all there is of God that a soul could ever know!
Yet? That soul is made to be alone would not be God....Deity alone is God.

God in union with the Soul of Jesus makes Jesus all that there is to be known by man about God knowable to us.
Knowable by His unique Soul being able to interpret God for our souls to relate to.
Jesus' Soul is uniquely privy to the fulness of God in a manner we as souls will relate to.

Unlike our souls, the Soul of Jesus has nothing to learn about God.
For the full knowledge of God, all that man could ever relate to about God for all eternity, is being always being known in the Son of God.

grace and peace ....................

 

[civic]

There was no broken Trinity.

How was the Trinity (Deity) broken?
Is the soul of Jesus God? No!
He has two natures in Union.

But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; ​

the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed." Isaiah 53:5​

It was his soul alone (not His Deity) that was cut off from fellowship with God by our sins piercing Him.
While on the Cross the Deity of Jesus remained being One with the Trinity.

You are a regenerated soul. Right?
You have the Holy Spirit indwelling your body. Romans 8:9

Now, if you stubbornly keep on sinning? And enter into grieving and then quenching the Holy Spirit?
Does the Trinity cease because your soul is cut off from fellowship with the Spirit?????

No. The Trinity remains being the Trinity in spite of you sins.

Your assumption has been that the soul of Jesus is God. Its a soul. Not God in itself.
God who is foreign to man's thinking is expressing Himself to men via the Soul of Jesus.
Using the Soul of Jesus as God's means for making Himself "knowable" to men!

No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God, ​

Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him ​

[He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him ​

and He has made Him known]. John 1:18​

That is saying what?

For us to see Jesus?

Is to be seeing God being interpreted by the Soul of Jesus in a manner that man will be able to comprehend God.
Why? For we are souls!

Jesus is God to us because God has sovereignly given the Soul of Jesus full access to knowing all there is of God that a soul could ever know!
Yet? That soul is made to be alone would not be God....Deity alone is God.

God in union with the Soul of Jesus makes Jesus all that there is to be known by man about God knowable to us.
Knowable by His unique Soul being able to interpret God for our souls to relate to.
Jesus' Soul is uniquely privy to the fulness of God in a manner we as souls will relate to.

Unlike our souls, the Soul of Jesus has nothing to learn about God.
For the full knowledge of God, all that man could ever relate to about God for all eternity, is being always being known in the Son of God.

grace and peace ....................

There was not even a millisecond where the Son was separated from the Father or was not in perfect fellowship with the Father. To say that happened is anti God, anti Trinitarian, anti biblical , anti truth etc…. Jesus Person is Divine, the Eternal Son.

 

[GeneZ]

There was not even a millisecond where the Son was separated from the Father or was not in perfect fellowship with the Father. To say that happened is anti God, anti Trinitarian, anti biblical , anti truth etc…. Jesus Person is Divine, the Eternal Son.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”
that is to say, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” Matthew 27:46

Jesus lied?..... He was , anti biblical , anti truth etc...?

You can not explain that verse?

I would like to see how you reasoned it.

 

[civic]

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”
that is to say, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” Matthew 27:46

Jesus lied?..... He was , anti biblical , anti truth etc...?

You can not explain that verse?

I would like to see how you reasoned it.

I’ve written a thesis paper that several pastors, theologians and scholars have reviewed and encouraged me in my study. Here is is here in detail with plenty of scripture supporting my thesis is biblical.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/

 

[GeneZ]

I’ve written a thesis paper that several pastors, theologians and scholars have reviewed and encouraged me in my study. Here is is here in detail with plenty of scripture supporting my thesis is biblical.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/

Come on... It should not take that long.....

I will ask again.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”
that is to say, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” Matthew 27:46

What does the word "forsaken" mean in the context?

 

[civic]

Come on... It should not take that long.....

I will ask again.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”
that is to say, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” Matthew 27:46

What does the word "forsaken" mean in the context?

Read the link as I explain in detail your view is faulty with Jesus last words. It’s a proclamation He is the Messiah.

 

[GeneZ]

Read the link as I explain in detail your view is faulty with Jesus last words. It’s a proclamation He is the Messiah.

You have page after page after page. Give me please the link to the specific page that covers His being forsaken.

Right click the post number. Copy and paste the link from the upper right hand corner of the post.
Like I will do here for your post I am now responding to:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/transmitting-the-fallen-nature.1078/post-43570

 

[sawdust]

The broken Trinity is what you described above, an impossibility and a heretical teaching

His humanity was cut off not His deity. It didn't "break" the Trinity at all. His humanity does not "bleed" over into His Deity or vice versa. Christ really died on the Cross, I'm sure you agree. Did that "break' the Trinity? Of course not because it was His humanity that died. Deity cannot die.

 

[GeneZ]

I’ve written a thesis paper that several pastors, theologians and scholars have reviewed and encouraged me in my study. Here is is here in detail with plenty of scripture supporting my thesis is biblical.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/

Found it here :
https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/post-149

Too many presumptions were made by you.

Here is one thing you said...

There are 10 points about God and Jesus' last words that are important to examine. Some people taught when Jesus said (My God My God why have Thou forsaken Me) that the Father departed, deserted, and turned His back upon His Son to bear God’s wrath on the cross. They teach from the pulpits that God is too Holy to look upon sin. However, is this teaching biblical? Is it true?​

Quote: "They teach from the pulpits that God is too Holy to look upon sin. "

So I see!... I'm the heretic?

Here is one more:

​

3- God does not send His wrath against God​

​

4- Jesus is God​

​

The Soul of Jesus IS NOT God.
Jesus has TWO natures. Not one!

That was not good reasoning.

 

[GeneZ]

His humanity was cut off not His deity. It didn't "break" the Trinity at all. His humanity does not "bleed" over into His Deity or vice versa. Christ really died on the Cross, I'm sure you agree. Did that "break' the Trinity? Of course not because it was His humanity that died. Deity cannot die.

I am getting a feeling they are gathering stones.

They love to get emotional and unify around their emotions when that happens.

Let's see if anybody is going to reason.

 

[sawdust]

There was not even a millisecond where the Son was separated from the Father or was not in perfect fellowship with the Father. To say that happened is anti God, anti Trinitarian, anti biblical , anti truth etc…. Jesus Person is Divine, the Eternal Son.

God the Son was not separated from God the Father. The humanity of Christ was separated from the Father. If He wasn't separated, then He didn't really die, it was all an illusion.