Transmitting The Fallen Nature

[GeneZ]

I don't know if it's before or simultaneous, but I don't see how you can believe first, and then the Lord regenerates you.

Can you "wish" to believe before they are able to believe?
Yes!

I believe that aspect is part of the drawing of God.

Any spiritually dead person can be fully aware that he is a sinner.
Its not a spiritual issue.
It does not require regeneration to know you sin.

Even the Pharaoh of Egypt knew he was a sinner!

Then Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron.
“This time I have sinned,” he said to them.
“The LORD is in the right, and I and my people are in the wrong.' Exodus 9:27


Any spiritually dead person can perceive the human goodness of Jesus, even if its only from a human perspective.
That is not a spiritual matter requiring regeneration.

And, any spiritually dead person could grasp the concept of "the man Jesus" having a love for God so great,
that Jesus was willing to die on the Cross for our sins to be forgiven so we could know the love for God as he loves God.
Any unbeliever can wish that were true! It does not require regeneration to wish that way.

Those concepts any unregenerate soul if he chooses to can comprehend.
God's grace takes a persons wish to believe, and by grace, transforms it into being made able to believe.
He suddenly finds himself believing!

The balance?
Not everyone wants to wish it were true.
That is the problem with those who perish.

 

[praise_yeshua]

All I can know is that you don't know enough to know what is needed
You admitted that much at least.

I don't exactly. I know it is different than what you're claiming.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's crazy talk. LOL

God chose to do what He did. I had no say in it. All I'm doing is telling you what God did. The Trinity came to the conclusion as to how they would handle sin. It is God who laid the ground rules. It was the Lord who decided to save those who are believing. If He is deciding between men, He is doing it by His rules, not ours.

No. YOU are culpable. You are your brother's keeper. It seems like everyone whats to blame God for everything today.

Eze 33:8 When I say to the sinner, Thou shalt surely die; if thou speak not to warn the wicked from his way, the wicked himself shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Paul references this verse....

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

 

[GeneZ]

No. YOU are culpable. You are your brother's keeper. It seems like everyone what to blame God for everything today.

Eze 33:8 When I say to the sinner, Thou shalt surely die; if thou speak not to warn the wicked from his way, the wicked himself shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Paul references this verse....

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

You ever consider taking drama classes?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You ever consider taking drama classes?

I'm not the drama major here.....

 

[GeneZ]

I'm not the drama major here.....

So you just audit the class? I see..

 

[praise_yeshua]

So you just audit the class? I see..

Just a voice in the room.

 

[GeneZ]

Just a voice in the room.

Enuf already... I need to place you on Ignore.

 

[sawdust]

No. YOU are culpable. You are your brother's keeper. It seems like everyone whats to blame God for everything today.

Eze 33:8 When I say to the sinner, Thou shalt surely die; if thou speak not to warn the wicked from his way, the wicked himself shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Paul references this verse....

Act 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

Culpable for what? All I've been doing is telling you what God did in the Cross. He showed He is indeed holy by putting sin to death in the body of Christ and raising Christ to life because He is righteous. Death to sin, life to righteousness.

Strewth. Truth be told, I would have been like Peter and said "not you Lord, you shouldn"t die" and what response would I have got? An extremely stern rebuke for my efforts just like Peter.

No-one took His life from Him, He laid it down of His own accord. So no, I'm not culpable. What I am is grateful because He did for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

I've said all I'm saying on the matter. Thankyou for the conversation.

 

[GeneZ]

Culpable for what? All I've been doing is telling you what God did in the Cross. He showed He is indeed holy by putting sin to death in the body of Christ and raising Christ to life because He is righteous. Death to sin, life to righteousness.

Strewth. Truth be told, I would have been like Peter and said "not you Lord, you shouldn"t die" and what response would I have got? An extremely stern rebuke for my efforts just like Peter.

No-one took His life from Him, He laid it down of His own accord. So no, I'm not culpable. What I am is grateful because He did for us what we cannot do for ourselves.

I've said all I'm saying on the matter. Thankyou for the conversation.

Actually...

He breathed out his last breath after He was Finished doing the work of atonement.

His physical death did not pay for our sins.... It was His spiritual death that atoned for our sins.

He died to his cherished fellowship with his eternally loved Father while our sins were imputed to Him on the Cross.

That is why He screamed out..... "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me!?

Notice.... He did not scream out.... "My Father! My Father! Why have you forsaken me!?

Why not Father?

Because he could only use the generic term "God," not, Father while being cut off and forsaken for our sins.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Actually...

He breathed out his last breath after He was Finished doing the work of atonement.

His physical death did not pay for our sins.... It was His spiritual death that atoned for our sins.

He died to his cherished fellowship with his eternally loved Father while our sins were imputed to Him on the Cross.

That is why He screamed out..... "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me!?

Notice.... He did not scream out.... "My Father! My Father! Why have you forsaken me!?

Why not Father?

Because he could only use the generic term "God," not, Father while being cut off and forsaken for our sins.

When I pointed that out, the rebuttal was Jesus is God and is the same yesterday and today and forever. To those who claimed that made any degree of separation impossible, I have a scripture for you:

Matthew 2436 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

 

[GeneZ]

When I pointed that out, the rebuttal was Jesus is God and is the same yesterday and today and forever. To those who claimed that made any degree of separation possible, I have a scripture for you:

Matthew 2436 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

I believe there is some chere is confusion here....

Jesus is God. He returned to His function of being God after He ascended and was glorified.

Before coming down from Heaven he volunteered to limit his abilities to being a man. A perfect man of God. (Philippians 2:6-8)
When He returned to Heaven His humanity received glorification, and now all the powers of Deity are being expressed by His will
from His humanity. Its a complete reversal of what he needed to be as a man on earth.

What was separated from the Father on the Cross? Jesus's "humanity" was cut off from the Father. His soul was alienated and alone.


As a Christian. If you sin? You can grieve the Holy Spirit. Until you confess your sin to God you will lose fellowship by being cut off from the grace control given by the Spirit until you name your sin to God? (1 John 1:9)

When you sin, you become separated from God's fellowship. But, just the same. If you hesitate to confess your sin the Holy Spirit still remains being God in you. The Holy Spirit is not become cut off from the Trinity when we sin.


When you sin its your soul/ humanity that loses fellowship with God.

Jesus never sinned. He never lost fellowship with the Father until our sins were imputed to Him.

Jesus having never sinned, did not deserve to be cut off from His beloved fellowship with His Father.
So while our sins were being poured onto Him He agonized like child who's parents abandoned him. On top of that.
He was horrified and deeply agonized in loathing and disgust to have to be baptized into the cesspool of our sins....

While bearing our sins the Deity of Christ did not cease being God. Just like if we grieve the Holy Spirit, he will not leave us.
The Holy Spirit does he stop being God and in union with the trinity.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

What was separated from the Father on the Cross? Jesus's "humanity" was cut off from the Father. His soul was alienated and alone.

Exactly. He was cut off from the Father. Was he still God at that moment? I don't know, and it's above my pay grade, but a separation of some sort took place.

 

[civic]

Actually...

He breathed out his last breath after He was Finished doing the work of atonement.

His physical death did not pay for our sins.... It was His spiritual death that atoned for our sins.

He died to his cherished fellowship with his eternally loved Father while our sins were imputed to Him on the Cross.

That is why He screamed out..... "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me!?

Notice.... He did not scream out.... "My Father! My Father! Why have you forsaken me!?

Why not Father?

Because he could only use the generic term "God," not, Father while being cut off and forsaken for our sins.

There was no spiritual death with Christ that’s heresy

 

[civic]

Exactly. He was cut off from the Father. Was he still God at that moment? I don't know, and it's above my pay grade, but a separation of some sort took place.

Anti trinitarian .

 

[GeneZ]

Exactly. He was cut off from the Father. Was he still God at that moment? I don't know, and it's above my pay grade, but a separation of some sort took place.

Jesus was not being God in his earthly walk.... His Deity in him remained "hands off" in supplying any power to him. For he needed to remain as a man to get to the Cross. Now, that does not mean that Jesus was not cognizant of who He really was. He just simply could not be who he really was in power other than a man.

That is why Satan tempted Jesus to turn the stones into bread. For, if Jesus did do that? He would have ceased being qualified in our place as a man he had to remain being. And, Satan had to know Jesus was God to make that into a temptation.

Philippians 2:6-8
English Standard Version

Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, ​

but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being ​

found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death ​

on a cross.​

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Jesus was not being God in his earthly walk.... His Deity in him remained "hands off" in supplying any power to him. For he needed to remain as a man to get to the Cross. Now, that does not mean that Jesus was not cognizant of who He really was. He just simply could not be who he really was in power other than a man.

That is why Satan tempted Jesus to turn the stones into bread. For, if Jesus did do that? He would have ceased being qualified in our place as a man he had to remain being. And, Satan had to know Jesus was God to make that into a temptation.

Philippians 2:6-8
English Standard Version

Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, ​

but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being ​

found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death ​

on a cross.​

Jesus was very clever coming 2,000 years ago instead of today, when Satan would offer him a role as a televangelist as a temptation.

For the humor impaired: It's a joke.

 

[GeneZ]

Jesus was very clever coming 2,000 years ago instead of today, when Satan would offer him a role as a televangelist as a temptation.

For the humor impaired: It's a joke.

Here is something that shows he was being fully functional as a man, and did not come functioning as God.

Luke 2:52

And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man."​

God can not grow in wisdom.... God knows all things.

 

[civic]

Here is something that shows he was being fully functional as a man, and did not come functioning as God.

Luke 2:52​

​

And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man."​

God can not grow in wisdom.... God knows all things.

No He was 100%, fully God at all times. His Deity remained just the same as it was before and after the Incarnation. Scripture declares Jesus Christ is the same ( changeless, immutable ) yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 13:8.

hope this helps !!!

 

[GeneZ]

The reason God did not punish us for our sins, is because God wanted

No He was 100%, fully God at all times. His Deity remained just the same as it was before and after the Incarnation. Scripture declares Jesus Christ is the same ( changeless, immutable ) yesterday, today and forever. Hebrews 13:8.

hope this helps !!!

I am not denying the Deity of Christ.

He was fully God...

BUT - to become as a man to die in our place. He had to willingly cease to be empowered (mentally and physically) in his function.

We could not be saved if He was being 100% fully God in His FUNCTION!
How's that? You can not kill God! We would not be saved.

And, look here! If He was being God in his function?
This verse would be a LIE!

Luke 2:52

And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man."

God can not grow in wisdom! He knows all things.

Read carefully!

It says He was eternally (before the incarnation) being God.
But? He needed to lay down his life of functioning as God to fulfill the Cross!

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross! Philippians 2:5-8​

He has TWO natures! You think like the two natures were put in a blender and one can not be differentiated one from the other.

It was after He finished dying as a man for our sins that He returned to heaven to be fully reestablished as being God in power!

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father ​

after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign ​

until he has put all his enemies under his feet." 1 Corinthians 15:24-25​

Now the Father has taken the back seat in reigning over creation.
For the Father has placed all sovereignty of the Son over the creation as GOD!!

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father .​

Don't let words alone throw you.
The context must be sought.
YES! He never stopped being God.
But he stopped being as God for the time He needed to function as a man.
God can choose to do nothing.
And, He did!

Jesus needed to pray to the Father as a man.
Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to provide power as a man!

Jesus on earth walked as the prototype PERFECT Christian.
He pioneered the way for us.

Even Satan knew Jesus was God. The demons He cast out declared Him to be God.
That is why Jesus told the demons to shut up.
For He had to be as a man and to be seen as a man to fulfill the plan.


Jesus was always God. But not always being manifested in the power of his own Deity. Power which he needed to deny Himself!

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing.


If you can get through this one and understand?
You will be able to be shown how God created all men without interfering with their wills.

grace and peace ...................