GeneZ
Well-known member
Where did death exist before Adam?
Transmitting The Fallen Nature
- Thread starter Olde Tymer
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Where did death exist before Adam?
Just to clarify something ... Do you believe the Lord regenerates a person before they believe or at the time they believe?
civic
Well-known member
He couldn’t be a Calvinist unless he believes it’s before. It’s what the “ I “ in tulip teaches. The dead must get life before they are capable of believing.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Did God keep His word to punish you for sin? Do you see how wrong you are? You're actually blaming/creating responsibility in Christ for your sin. What about your debt? Have you been robbed of freedom because of the debtor you've become?
You're making the mistake that Calvinist make. You're insisting that God MUST do something for YOU.... that He does not do for others. You're making God responsible for YOU. You're insisting that God chooses between men that are identical to one another.
The fact that God knew Adam would sin meant He could use it to His advantage in a way that would establish His ultimate goal of sharing His life (eternal life) with His creation and not compromise His Holiness.
Ergo, when all is said and done, the cry of the angels day and night is "holy, holy, holy". (Rev.4:8)
ps. please note it doesn't say "love, love, love".
Holy Holy Holy.... not "LOVE LOVE LOVE"......
Really?
Why not "God commiteth his HOLINESS toward us that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us?
It is amazing to what lengths you're going to maintain your mistake.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The Spirit of God was confined to Christ in the Incarnation.
Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
You see the Unity of the Trinity in the baptism of Christ. However, this not an indication that they were seperated from one another before. See how you can't go by what you hear at every level in dealing with the Doctrine of the Trinity. Just because Christ called on the Father doesn't mean that the Son didn't exercise power.
When God does something..... ALL OF GOD does it. Not just parts of it. It is the Unity of power in the Holy Trinity. The power of God is not split between the Three Persons of the Trinity. Not even split "equally".
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Do you know what the word "entered" means?
civic
Well-known member
Amen They share the same Divine Nature/Attributes as a Tri-Unity.
GeneZ
Well-known member
The dead must have what prevents the soul from wanting to believe removed.
I said, "wanting to believe."
As long as the flesh reigns unhampered no one could want to believe.
The state we enter into that makes one able to "want to believe" must come from God's grace.
God suppresses our flesh's power to dominate the soul when that grace is applied by God.
I ask you.. When you were yet an unbeliever? Did you know you sinned?
You did not have to be spiritual to know you were a sinner.
For the Law was to make men know they are sinners, not to save them.
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law;
rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin." Romans 3:20
Various laws that we grew up with... "you should not lie." Made us aware that we sin.
No regeneration needed there to know you were a sinner.
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GeneZ
Well-known member
Where did death exist before Adam?
You said it did.
Here!
You just changed the subject again while avoiding an answer...
Now answer.
Where did death exist before Adam?
You said it did exist...
So?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
I don't know if it's before or simultaneous, but I don't see how you can believe first, and then the Lord regenerates you.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The word "entered" requires it. Something that doesn't exist.... doesn't "enter".....
Where? Wherever God allowed it.
I gave you the answer. You just didn't recognize it.
The idea that we are the center aspect of all of God's actions throughout the entirety of God's creative actions seems every implausible to me. Just how does a "Creator" stop..... Creating?
Our ancestors have so robbed us of the truth that the average Christian just can't grasp the obvious sometimes.
Satan preexisted Adam. Satan deceived Eve. Satan was full of sin. Sin has had its work in Satan for countless ages. How many, I don't know. No one knows. We are just a small part of something very BIG.....
civic
Well-known member
Because scripture in numerous places says it happens after you believe then you become born again.
Notice what comes first in scripture - the order of how one becomes saved.
1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ,regeneration, new life, born again etc....
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.
John below the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.
John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.
John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.
Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.
Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.
Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.
Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit
conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.
1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life, regeneration, born again
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It is easy. The Gospel tells us what to do. Pen. Paper. Faithful humans pass their faith to others.
The desire to excluded other men from the promises of God is devilish.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Satan preexisted Adam. And, that is where death came from...
Came from the prehistoric world where angels, not man, had dominion over that world.
Once Satan and his angels fell, like when Adam fell, that creation became fallen and distorted.
Dinosaurs began killing other prehistoric creatures------ and "death" entered into being a reality.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing [comes by] the word of Christ. In other words, you can't hear until Christ says so.
civic
Well-known member
And one is regenerated after hearing and believing the gospel , not before.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
So now you agree with what I said. Typical.....
As far as Dinosaurs are concerned. I have no idea. You don't either. There is conjecture from many sides. I believe it is rather obvious that the substances found on this planet come from more than just 10,000 years of existence. How much, I have no idea and I believe dating is inflated. However, I can't ignore that we are but dust and dust/ash is often the same thing. The only difference is the heat associated with judgement.
Make of it what you want.
That's crazy talk. LOL
God chose to do what He did. I had no say in it. All I'm doing is telling you what God did. The Trinity came to the conclusion as to how they would handle sin. It is God who laid the ground rules. It was the Lord who decided to save those who are believing. If He is deciding between men, He is doing it by His rules, not ours.
They can believe before regeneration because of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. ( or to sum it up in one word? Grace!)
John 16:8
And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
We see God revealing Himself first in the creation. (Rom.1:19). We also see the Lord drawing men to Christ as they learn from the Father. (John 6:45). Hebrews tells us "he who comes to God must believe He is and rewards those who seek Him." (Heb.11:6)
Grace enables us to see and hear while we are dead in sin so that we can give our own response to Him. We don't go from complete ignorance of God to faith in Christ in one step but it is a process of the Father leading us so we can answer the one question that matters. "Who do you say I am?" (Matt.16:15)
A positive response sees the individual regenerated, a negative response sees the individual remain dead in their sin. This is what the Lord God has determined and He does according to His will.
GeneZ
Well-known member
All I can know is that you don't know enough to know what is needed
You admitted that much at least.
