God can only act within His nature and from His character. He wants all men to be saved but He would have to deny His righteousness to obtain that and force men to accept Him hence, not all will be saved.
Transmitting The Fallen Nature
- Thread starter Olde Tymer
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
When 2 unsaved people hear the sane message and are convicted by the same Holy Spirit why does one receive the gospel while the other rejects the gospel ?
GeneZ
Well-known member
That is exactly what Philippians 2:6-8 mentions about Jesus. He was denying Himself of His powers of Deity
as to make Himself "function" as a (sinless) man.
NIV translation
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Lexham English Bible
Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped,
but emptied himself
by taking the form of a slave,
by becoming in the likeness of people.
And being found in appearance like a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death,
that is, death on a cross.
did not consider being equal with God something to be grasped,
but emptied himself
by taking the form of a slave,
by becoming in the likeness of people.
And being found in appearance like a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death,
that is, death on a cross.
The Greek of verse 6 declares several nuances missed in mainstream translations.
One was that He was *eternally* existing in the form of God. Meaning, He was God.
Who, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,
He did not think equalities (plural) with God
a gain to be seized (means to violently take)
and held .
He did not think equalities (plural) with God
a gain to be seized (means to violently take)
and held .
He had to "let go" of His powers of Deity which He loved and adored in order to make himself become as a man.
He could have wanted to snatch them back if he could. That is why some even translate it to say "robbery."
He did all that by utilizing only his humanity which was needed to die as a perfect substitute in our place.
grace and peace .................
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
So God won't force men to accept him, but God obviously has no problem doing this to men:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”
(I love Deuteronomy.)
GeneZ
Well-known member
Why did Satan reject the Lord and Gabriel did not reject the Lord?
Both were unfallen when Satan chose to make the evil choice.
Volition. One prefers light and one prefers darkness. But I do hope you are not trying to use that as our justification? Are you suggesting there is salvation from death without the Cross?
John 3:18-21
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
I love cosmology but when I listen to astrophysicists explain the universe? They make me blind, deaf and stupid.
There's more than one way to skin a cat, as we say.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Nonsense.
I said that Adam was created peccable. Capable of sin. The proof is in the fact he sinned.
Do you expect to be peccable the rest of your life into Eternity? I don't.
GeneZ
Well-known member
That was punishment as the result of their negative volition. Not the cause.
In context it was worshipers of Baal that God did that to.
The stupor was not the cause of their rejection of God. It was punishment for their rejection. Read Romans 11:2-10.
Why would God want to turn them into moronic sounding people? So that they could not claim credibility to those being blessed by God.
Making them feel too ineffectual and too inferior to try to bother those who were being blessed by God for their faithfulness.
In other words?
Romans 11:2-10 - God made the Baal worshippers enter into a stupor causing them to have a terrible inferiority complex, making sure that they could be taken seriously if they should try to oppose the ways of God to the faithful!
The stupor's effect would be like answering a knock on your door to see a Jehovah Witness standing there talking like Joe Biden.
He would instantly know he could not match you and walk away.
God protected his faithful (Romans 11:2-10) by disarming their enemies by turning them into inept morons in their ability to reason.
..... grace and peace!
civic
Well-known member
Answering a question with a question a tu quoque fallacy.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Do you kill your own when they sin? It is simple question. Is that how you LOVE your own?
Which why I have been appealing to your sense of understanding concerning justice relative to longsuffering. You're ignore me....
If what you say is true concerning God's "justice".... then Adam would have never had his own offspring.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Simple answer. Gabriel loved God. Satan did more than just commit a simple sin. He sought to challenge God.
There are context to sin. Some sins are worse than others. The idea there is this "sin" nature that damns everyone is preposterous. It is willful sin of unbelief that damns.
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praise_yeshua
Well-known member
If you pay attention to what I say...
(not demanding anything).....There are "Satan's seed" and "God's seed" in this world competing against one another. This why faith is often generational and damnation is often generational. God drove Cain away from Seth but He demanded the lack vengeance for Cain's sin. He has committed both the seed of God and the seed of Cain together in hope. Faith to faith. Damnation to damnation.
Sometimes one side wins others from the other side. God's intent in Creation was to establish the willing servant.
Love.... God's love is only meaningful from the willing.
Tell me how much you'd like to create someone that will endless love you? Would you find value in forcing the unwilling to love you?
God is too smart to force the unwilling. There is no love like God's love without the self will of the servant. All it takes is just the smallest of faiths to establish such.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Was he also able not to sin?
Sure he was!
Why do you think Eve added to the command to not even touch the fruit?
Adam commanded her not to touch!
At some point her own curiosity had been enticing her. In wonderment when reaching out as to only try to touch the fruit, Adam seeing her doing that commanded her to not even touch! That is why she added to the command something that was not given by God!
The original command from God..
And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat
from it you will certainly die.” Genesis 2:16-17
Adam was free to touch it and not die....
Eve added to the command, for what she was commanded by Adam. Commanded when he saw her curiosity at work when she was standing before that tree! She was reaching out as to only touch the fruit.
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say,
‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it,
or you will die.’” Genesis 3:2-3
The Lord never commanded not to touch the fruit or Adam would die! It was "not to eat."
Why then did she add to the Word? Adam was resisting sin!
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."
Philippians 1:9
What we knew yesterday was made known so we can be able to know what we need to know for today.grace and peace ..............
Please
GeneZ
Well-known member
Translation?.... I don't agree! But, I have nothing good to refute it with!
And, add to that.
I want to distract away from something that was just said. Something that could have been edifying for those who love learning more from God's Word if allowed to discuss it with peace .
"Bah Humbug!" Christianity is amongst us...
peccable means "liable to sin", not simply capable. Jesus had the capacity to choose error but He always chose the Fathers will over His own. We know He had the capacity because He stated "nevertheless not my will". If it was impossible for Him to sin (impeccable) then He could not be tested. God cannot be tested, only man.
There is no reason to think that if everyone was created at the same time and placed in the garden under the same conditions that everyone would have sinned. Indeed, the very fact God had to condemn all of us in Adam strongly suggests that, just like the angels, many of us would not have sinned.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yeah. I call tell you're one of those men that think they can command their wives to do anything they wish and punish them when they do.
Yeah.... That certain is love...... right?
Have lived so long in this life to not learn God isn't LIKE YOU!.....
You're like the ones that have taught you this nonsense.....
Your imagination is something. Satan is crafty. Satan chose the perfect time to deceive Eve was deceived. Which requires some sense of innocence. She didn't know any better. Adam is the one that willfully sinned.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.[/QUOTE]
I just got through saying volition is the thing that separates us. Why do you come back at me saying effectively "volition is the thing that separates us" as if when I said it I am wrong?If you pay attention to what I say...
There are "Satan's seed" and "God's seed" in this world competing against one another. This why faith is often generational and damnation is often generational. God drove Cain away from Seth but He demanded the lack vengeance for Cain's sin. He has committed both the seed of God and the seed of Cain together in hope. Faith to faith. Damnation to damnation.
Sometimes one side wins others from the other side. God's intent in Creation was to establish the willing servant.
Love.... God's love is only meaningful from the willing.
Tell me how much you'd like to create someone that will endless love you? Would you find value in forcing the unwilling to love you?
God is too smart to force the unwilling. There is no love like God's love without the self will of the servant. All it takes is just the smallest of faiths to establish such.
Sorry to say I really don't get you at all.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Peccable is a doctrine. Not a definition to be repeated from Webster....
@civic I must admit. It frustrates me to get to this point in a discussion to only realize that someone doesn't believe in the Impeccability of Christ....
What Angel was placed in a garden where Satan could deceive them into eating a fruit?
Angels have more innate knowledge than Adam and Eve had. There is reason I say the things I do. I have repeatedly stated that knowledge is a central aspect of the culpability of sin.
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Death is the result of sin. You can't change reality. God set that reality. Adam has no control over reality. Do I want my children to die? Of course not! But can I shrug my shoulders and say "oh well, lets forget about your sin and ignore the problem" then carry on as if nothing has happened? An emphatic NO!!! It must be dealt with otherwise my word means nothing, it becomes irrelevant. Love is the motivation for the Cross, but not love of sinful man. God so loved (past tense) the world (the one He originally created before sin marred it, the one He called good) and the Son so loved the Father that He was willing to die even death on a Cross, a most tortuous death.Do you kill your own when they sin? It is simple question. Is that how you LOVE your own?
Which why I have been appealing to your sense of understanding concerning justice relative to longsuffering. You're ignore me....
If what you say is true concerning God's "justice".... then Adam would have never had his own offspring.
I am not ignoring you, I am trying to set you straight.
