Total Depravity

[brightfame52]

Keep struggling with this. Again. You are including everyone. All peoples of the earth. You're not creating a distinction where world isn't everyone relative to an exclusive group that isn't of everyone.

Simple question. Did Christ have a different flesh than the flesh of all the descendants of Adam and Eve?

jews and gentiles , Gods elect from all nations are special objects of Gods love. Its like when speaking of the vessels of mercy, they were not just confined to the jews, so Paul writes of their call Rom 9:223-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Gentiles means world. Its contrasted with jews in Pauls writings in this letter Rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

 

[TomL]

I dont know what in the world you talking about, however world in salvation matters just means people who aren't jews. Jn 3:16 means God loves more that just jews

Scripture does not support you

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

All people here go beyond just believers.

Salvation is available to all, and faith is what is needed to acquire it.

 

[brightfame52]

@civic

You are easily refuted by the Apostle John and the Greek Lexicons.

Nothings refuted, its in your imagination. World in these salvation matters, just means it includes the Gentiles

 

[TomL]

Reconciliation is a matter of relationship. It is not a single sided process. It requires a truly free willing choice from the forgiven.

Indeed a freely willing choice is required.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I dont know what in the world you talking about, however world in salvation matters just means people who aren't jews. Jn 3:16 means God loves more that just jews

You just keep repeating yourself and "doubling down".....

Yes. God loves the world.

You're still ignoring what I asked you. I'm going to stop here. Do what you do best. Evade and deflect.

 

[TomL]

@civic


Nothings refuted, its in your imagination. World in these salvation matters, just means it includes the Gentiles

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

That is not a part of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

The phrase out from all nations of the world does not appear in scripture.

You failed to show

The elect are all people, all human beings, or the world mentioned in scripture.

Like here Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

See redemption had a worldwide scope, instead of the one nation scope jews thought. Lie this promise Lk 24 21

But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Ps 130 8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

The Israel redeemed included folk from out of every kindred of the world

 

[TomL]

Like here Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

See redemption had a worldwide scope, instead of the one nation scope jews thought. Lie this promise Lk 24 21

But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Ps 130 8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

The Israel redeemed included folk from out of every kindred of the world

You are still failing to show

The elect are all people, all human beings, everyone, all or the world mentioned in scripture.


Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

You are still failing to show

You not able to see it

 

[TomL]

@TomL



You not able to see it

You failed to post a single verse that actually shows all men, the whole world, and all people reference the Elect alone.

T

Post in thread 'Total Depravity'

Yesterday at 10:39 AM

Like here Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

See redemption had a worldwide scope, instead of the one nation scope jews thought. Lie this promise Lk 24 21

But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Ps 130 8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

The...

• TomL

 

[brightfame52]

You failed to post a single verse that actually shows all men, the whole world, and all people reference the Elect alone.

T

Post in thread 'Total Depravity'

Yesterday at 10:39 AM

Like here Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

See redemption had a worldwide scope, instead of the one nation scope jews thought. Lie this promise Lk 24 21

But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Ps 130 8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

The...

• TomL

World in Salvation salvation context, like Jn 3:16 shows that Gods redeeming purposes was outside the ethnic jewish national community and had the entire world as its scope, its the fulling of the Abrahamic blessings of Salvation Gen 12:3

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth[worldwide] be blessed.

Now its up to God for you to see this, I cant argue you into the Truth

 

[TomL]

World in Salvation salvation context, like Jn 3:16 shows that Gods redeeming purposes was outside the ethnic jewish national community and had the entire world as its scope, its the fulling of the Abrahamic blessings of Salvation Gen 12:3

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth[worldwide] be blessed.

Now its up to God for you to see this, I cant argue you into the Truth

Still you address not a single verse and You are still failing to show

The elect are all people, all human beings, everyone, all or the world mentioned in scripture.


Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

The phrase "Everyone of the elect" does not appear

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

No phrase such as all the elect is seen.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

The phrase all the elect people is not seen

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Our sins would be the sins of believers, but beyond that, Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Savior of the world, not savior of the elect alone.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Salvation is brought to all people, not just the elect alone.

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Believers are shown as one group which is part of a larger group of all people.

 

[brightfame52]

Still you address not a single verse and You are still failing to show

The elect are all people, all human beings, everyone, all or the world mentioned in scripture.


Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

The phrase "Everyone of the elect" does not appear

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

No phrase such as all the elect is seen.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

The phrase all the elect people is not seen

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Our sins would be the sins of believers, but beyond that, Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Savior of the world, not savior of the elect alone.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Salvation is brought to all people, not just the elect alone.

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Believers are shown as one group which is part of a larger group of all people.

Words like all, everyone, world and etc just means Gods elect from among all different nationalities and places opposed to just the jews