Total Depravity

Pancho Frijoles said:
Taking verses literally is also deceptive, my friend. Furthermore, it is delusional.
To avoid deception, we all must continuously learn, continuously practice honesty, continuously challenge our own views, continuously pray, continuously examine reality as it is, continuously correct our misconceptions… but perhaps more importantly, asking ourselves whether the idea we cherish make us love more God and humanity.
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Thats how people deceive themselves, when they see a verse that states a certain truth they reject, they rationalize it away by saying, well it doesnt say this or that.
 
All men by nature are totally depraved (Rom. 3:10-19). Man is fallen,guilty, sinful and helpless, dead in trespasses and in sins (Rom.5:12; Eph. 2:1-3). Unless God intervenes to save, all men will forever perish, being justly condemned.​
 
All men by nature are totally depraved and governed by a spirit of disobedience as being dead in sin Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience/unbelief:

This is why by nature we could never obey or believe God, children cant change their nature.
 
brightfame52 said:
This is why by nature we could never obey or believe God, children cant change their nature.
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I don't find that choosing to be sinful in HIS sight changes our nature so much as that we become enslaved to sin, instantly addicted to its pleasures and profits and unable to save our selves by choosing righteousness.
 
TedT said:
I don't find that choosing to be sinful in HIS sight changes our nature so much as that we become enslaved to sin, instantly addicted to its pleasures and profits and unable to save our selves by choosing righteousness.
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Mans nature is disobedient to God, Period. Thats why Paul writes in Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
By nature we are carnal, being so we cannot be subject to God or His Law which are One. The word subject/ὑποτάσσεται means:
  1. to arrange under, to subordinate
  2. to subject, put in subjection
  3. to subject one's self, obey
  4. to submit to one's control

So by nature, carnal we are as children of disobedience.
 
brightfame52 said:
Mans nature is disobedient to God, Period. Thats why Paul writes in Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
By nature we are carnal, being so we cannot be subject to God or His Law which are One. The word subject/ὑποτάσσεται means:
  1. to arrange under, to subordinate
  2. to subject, put in subjection
  3. to subject one's self, obey
  4. to submit to one's control

So by nature, carnal we are as children of disobedience.
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So you no longer sin ?
 
TedT said:
The KJV says "in the flesh" and "the carnal mind"... Interpreting this to only refer to our nature is the problem as other interpretations are also available. Being enslaved to sin is the one I prefer.
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I know what it says and means. Man by nature we are carnal, flesh and cant obey God. Thats why a person must be born again to obey the Gospel
 
brightfame52 said:
a person must be born again to obey the Gospel
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A person must be born again to have his enslavement to sin broken or cured so he can start to be trained in righteousness, that is, brought to the point where he will never choose sin again by his restored free will.
 
brightfame52 said:
I know what it says and means. Man by nature we are carnal, flesh and cant obey God. Thats why a person must be born again to obey the Gospel
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When did Saul of Tarsus become born again?

Was he born again while consenting to the murder of Stephen?


Now Saul was consenting to his death.
At that time a great persecution arose against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1-2
 
TedT said:
A person must be born again to have his enslavement to sin broken or cured so he can start to be trained in righteousness, that is, brought to the point where he will never choose sin again by his restored free will.
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Again a person must be born again to obey the Gospel
 
Men by nature are totally depraved in spiritual death, our lot in Adam Rom 5:15

15 ;But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Now until made alive, death we incurred in Adam reigns over us, we be dead, this is spiritual and morally death to God, not physically dead.

Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
 
civic said:
You are pretty good at it too :)
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Aren't we all!

jeremiah1five

Thread 'Exegesis and Eisegesis. What Are These Terms?'

Exegesis and eisegesis are terms used in biblical interpretation.

  • Exegesis is the process of interpreting a text based on its original context, language, and historical background. It involves careful analysis of the text itself and its surrounding cultural and historical context. Exegesis aims to understand the original meaning of the text as intended by its author.
  • Eisegesis is the opposite of exegesis. It's the process of reading meaning into a text that wasn't intended by the author. Eisegesis involves imposing one's own...
 
A writer who compares arminianism with humanism writes the following:

Arminianism says: “Man has the intellectual power to choose eternal life or death, and that every man is given ample space to make up his mind in this vital matter”. But Christ says, speaking of the natural man: “Ye will not come to Me that ye might have life.” (John 5:40).Speaking of the utter impotence of man’s natural will, Christ says:“No man can come to me ...”(John6:44).Paul, in his accentuation of this truth, says: “The carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”(Rom.8:7-8)The natural man is “Ever
learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (IITimothy 3:7).
Arminianism’s declaration of the absolute independence of man’swill is tantamount to saying, the fruit of a tree has a nature of itsown, which is altogether free of the root of the tree. The fruit of atree is invariably determined by the character of its root. Genealogically, Adam is the root of mankind, and when Adam committed spiritual suicide (Genesis 3:6), his progeny died in him.“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”(Romans5:12).
“A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit ...”(Matthew7:18).All the moral fruit which the natural man brings forth, be they ever so laudatory or praiseworthy by the standards of men, are, when weighed in the scales of omniscience, seen to be worm infested.https://www.pbcofdecaturalabama.org/OBMink/OBMink.htm#index
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Because if total depravity, all that we do as natural men in our adamic nature, as sincere and moral and religious it may be before the world of men, when its brought b4 the Lord for His acceptance, blessing, and or salvation, its evil fruit !
 

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