civic
Active Member
ditto
Total Depravity
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
brightfame52
Active Member
Oh no, to deny the Truth of the Gospel is calling God a liar 1 Jn 5:10-11
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
The Truths of Tulip give an accurate record of the Gospel of Gods Grace, Who Jesus is, and What He has accomplished, and for who
brightfame52
Active Member
No, I will not post the link, you should be able to navigate to it, you a big boy now
brightfame52
Active Member
He Flowers is a enemy to the Gospel, I have listened to several of his debates with James White.
Bassnah
Active Member
Or you just can't because it's not there. On top of that it false.
brightfame52
Active Member
okay
Bassnah
Active Member
I'm glad you agree.
Wilber
Active Member
Wilber
Active Member
Why would you sent anyone to this thread of yours as you do so badly in it.
brightfame52
Active Member
Man by nature is totally depraved to Spiritual things, like the light of the Gospel 2 Cor 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Now man by nature is darkness, even Gods elect notice Eph 5:8
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Notice Paul didnt just say, ye were sometimes in darkness, which was also true, but ye were darkness, epitomized darkness, and Jesus said about darkness this Jn 1:4-5
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 ;And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Thats depravity, darkness comprehends not the Light. The word comprehend/ means
καταλαμβάνω:
To seize, to grasp, to comprehend, to overtake
Meaning: (a) I seize tight hold of, arrest, catch, capture, appropriate, (b) I overtake, (c) mid. aor: I perceived, comprehended.
Word Origin: From κατά (kata, meaning "down" or "against") and λαμβάνω (lambanó, meaning "to take" or "to receive")
As long as a person remains in nature/darkness they will not comprehend Spiritual Truth, not in a Spiritual conversion.
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Now man by nature is darkness, even Gods elect notice Eph 5:8
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Notice Paul didnt just say, ye were sometimes in darkness, which was also true, but ye were darkness, epitomized darkness, and Jesus said about darkness this Jn 1:4-5
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 ;And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Thats depravity, darkness comprehends not the Light. The word comprehend/ means
καταλαμβάνω:
To seize, to grasp, to comprehend, to overtake
Meaning: (a) I seize tight hold of, arrest, catch, capture, appropriate, (b) I overtake, (c) mid. aor: I perceived, comprehended.
Word Origin: From κατά (kata, meaning "down" or "against") and λαμβάνω (lambanó, meaning "to take" or "to receive")
As long as a person remains in nature/darkness they will not comprehend Spiritual Truth, not in a Spiritual conversion.
Bassnah
Active Member
All five points of Calvinism are false doctrines.
A man is not so totally depraved (T) that he is unable to respond to the gospel without being born again. Rather, upon hearing the gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit, he is able to respond to the gospel in faith so that he can be born again by the power of God.
God did not predetermine which people would be saved for eternal life (U) and create others who have no possibility of being saved. The Bible teaches us that God knit us in our mother's womb. He did not create people for the express purpose of sending them to hell. Only Christ his Son was chosen before the foundation of the world. His Chosen One is Christ, his only begotten Son, and those who are united to Christ in faith become sons of God and chosen ones of God by virtue of their union with the Chosen Son of God.
Christ did not die on the cross only for the sins of some people (L) but for the sins of all the people of the whole world. He is the sacrifice for all people and any number of sins of any number of men.
God does not "drag" people irresistably to his Son (I) but invites people to have a relationship with him through his Son.
And the Bible does not teach there is no real prospect of total apostasy from grace (P); rather those who do not stand firm in the faith may indeed fall short of salvation on the last day. All this we will decisively prove from the Holy Scriptures without fudging, straining Scriptures, or resorting to wild mental gymnastics and logical fallacies.
A man is not so totally depraved (T) that he is unable to respond to the gospel without being born again. Rather, upon hearing the gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit, he is able to respond to the gospel in faith so that he can be born again by the power of God.
God did not predetermine which people would be saved for eternal life (U) and create others who have no possibility of being saved. The Bible teaches us that God knit us in our mother's womb. He did not create people for the express purpose of sending them to hell. Only Christ his Son was chosen before the foundation of the world. His Chosen One is Christ, his only begotten Son, and those who are united to Christ in faith become sons of God and chosen ones of God by virtue of their union with the Chosen Son of God.
Christ did not die on the cross only for the sins of some people (L) but for the sins of all the people of the whole world. He is the sacrifice for all people and any number of sins of any number of men.
God does not "drag" people irresistably to his Son (I) but invites people to have a relationship with him through his Son.
And the Bible does not teach there is no real prospect of total apostasy from grace (P); rather those who do not stand firm in the faith may indeed fall short of salvation on the last day. All this we will decisively prove from the Holy Scriptures without fudging, straining Scriptures, or resorting to wild mental gymnastics and logical fallacies.
brightfame52
Active Member
Neil Spargo
Active Member
before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.(Hebrews 11:4) Do not need to add to God's word
Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters.
brightfame52
Active Member
This doesnt say Enoch wasn't born totally depraved.
brightfame52
Active Member
Man by nature, is so depraved, save for the Divine Intervention with saving Grace, we would live our entire lives with hearts full of evil, and then die and go to hell Ecc 9:3
3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Yeah we would die and eventually go to Judgment and face the consequences Ecc12:`4
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
Yeah we would die and eventually go to Judgment and face the consequences Ecc12:`4
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
brightfame52
Active Member
When men deny total depravity and elevate so called freewill, they are denying the Divine verdict that all men by nature are under sin ! Rom 3:9
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
The word under is the greek Preposition hupo:
by, under, about.
Word Origin: A primary preposition
Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often used in similar contexts is תַּחַת (tachath), Strong's Hebrew 8478, which also means "under" or "beneath."
Usage: The Greek preposition "hupo" is used to denote a position or condition of being under or beneath something. It can indicate physical position, such as being under an object, or metaphorical subjection, such as being under authority or influence. It is often used to express agency, particularly in passive constructions, where it denotes the agent performing an action.
Naturally we are under the power and authority of sin,
Even as a regenerated man Paul spoke of the being under the power of sin and his will being overcome by sin, so even more so an unregenerate man Rom 7:14-18
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
You think Paul would teach freewill and deny total depravity of the natural man ? For them who boast of a freewill to believe in Jesus, you are saying, I have good in my flesh !
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
The word under is the greek Preposition hupo:
by, under, about.
Word Origin: A primary preposition
Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often used in similar contexts is תַּחַת (tachath), Strong's Hebrew 8478, which also means "under" or "beneath."
Usage: The Greek preposition "hupo" is used to denote a position or condition of being under or beneath something. It can indicate physical position, such as being under an object, or metaphorical subjection, such as being under authority or influence. It is often used to express agency, particularly in passive constructions, where it denotes the agent performing an action.
Naturally we are under the power and authority of sin,
Even as a regenerated man Paul spoke of the being under the power of sin and his will being overcome by sin, so even more so an unregenerate man Rom 7:14-18
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
You think Paul would teach freewill and deny total depravity of the natural man ? For them who boast of a freewill to believe in Jesus, you are saying, I have good in my flesh !
You still cannot address these
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded men to prevent their belief. Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened, they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Salvation through unconditional election is another gospel.
