civic
Well-known member
Fatalism ie determinism is not the scriptural position. It certainly was not the position of the early church. Or the church of the middle ages.
Time in heaven
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Fatalism is not the position of the church at anytime.
Neither is Open Theism. It's a fairly recent heresy.
civic
Well-known member
Neither is determinism / Calvinism
Oh look
Yet another passage of scripture you cannot deal with
Jeremiah 18:7–10 (ESV) — 7 If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8 and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.
That makes sense since Calvin would not be born for 1500 years. LOL Such brilliance
civic
Well-known member
yet your guy Augustine taught it to Calvin - your boy Calvin learned it from Augustine who borrowed determines/fatalism from the pagans/gnostics, greek philosophers
civic
Well-known member
Historical facts being denied now lol- this just goes to show how blinding man made doctrines have over the mind. I'll go with @sethproton on this which describes it best- a stronghold. 
civic
Well-known member
Now back to your regular scheduled program. Is there time in heaven ? YES !!!!!!!!!
Revelation 8:1 says, “There was silence in heaven for about half an hour.”
Those in heaven appear to be aware of the passage of time on earth, and they may even describe it as “long.” Revelation 6:9–10 says, “I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, ‘How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?’” Without a doubt, how long is a time-related phrase. got?
Revelation 22:1–5, speaks of the New Jerusalem: “Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.
Revelation 8:1 says, “There was silence in heaven for about half an hour.”
Those in heaven appear to be aware of the passage of time on earth, and they may even describe it as “long.” Revelation 6:9–10 says, “I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, ‘How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?’” Without a doubt, how long is a time-related phrase. got?
Revelation 22:1–5, speaks of the New Jerusalem: “Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.
civic
Well-known member
More on time in heaven and the new heavens/earth
The natural understanding of a New Earth is that it would exist in space and time, with a future unfolding progressively, just as it does now. Yet people repeatedly say there will be “no time in Heaven.” One theologian argues, “What a relief and what joy to know that in heaven there will be no more time.”[7] Another writer says, “Heaven will be a place where time will stand still.”[8]
Where do such ideas come from? A misleading translation in the King James Version of the Bible says that “there should be time no longer” (Revelation 10:6). This was the basis for theologians such as Abraham Kuyper to conclude there will be no time in Heaven. But other versions correctly translate this phrase “There will be no more delay!” (niv, rsv), which means not that time itself will cease but that there is no time left before God’s judgment is executed.
Other people are confused because they remember the phrase “Time shall be no more” and think it’s from the Bible. It’s actually from a hymn. Ironically, the same hymn speaks of “When the morning breaks . . .” Both the words morning and when are references to time.
John Newton’s hymn “Amazing Grace” describes a better grasp of time:
When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise,
Than when we’d first begun.[9]
Scripture contains many other evidences of time in Heaven:
God knows and can access past and future as readily as present. We can remember the past and anticipate the future, but we can live only in the present. Time is our environment.
Another author says, “Over everything on earth hangs the dark shadow of time.”[11] But the shadow is not time. The shadow is death, which is a loss of resources and opportunity. People imagine time is an enemy because the clock seems to move so slowly when we’re having a root canal and so quickly when we’re doing what we love. But time isn’t the problem, the Curse is. Time isn’t the enemy, death is (1 Corinthians 15:26). Time predated sin and the Curse. When the Curse is lifted, time will remain. Without the Curse, time will never work against us. We won’t run out of it. Time will bring gain, not loss. The passing of time will no longer threaten us. It will bring new adventures without a sense of loss, of what must end.
We’ll live with time, no longer under its pressure. When we see God face-to-face, time will pass, but we’ll be lost in him. We’ll be busy exploring his universe, working on projects, fellowshiping with him and each other, listening to and telling great stories. We’ll delight in time because it’s part of what God calls “very good.” It’s a dimension in which we’ll enjoy God.
When we say good-bye in Heaven, we’ll know people won’t die before we see them next. Time will no longer be an hourglass in which the sands of time go from a limited past to a limited future. Our future will be unlimited. We’ll no longer have to “number our days” (Psalm 90:12) or redeem the time, for time won’t be a diminishing resource about to end.
Theologian Henry Berkhof predicts that time itself will be resurrected to what God created it to be:
Time is the mould of our created human existence. Sin led to the fact that we have no time, and that we spend a hurried existence between past and future. But the consummation as the glorification of existence will not mean that we are taken out of time and delivered from time, but that time as the form of our glorified existence will also be fulfilled and glorified. Consummation means to live again in the succession of past, present, and future, but in such a way that the past moves along with us as a blessing and the future radiates through the present so that we strive without restlessness and rest without idleness, and so that, though always progressing, we are always at our destination.[12]
Buddhism, which knows no resurrection, teaches that time will be extinguished. Christianity, solidly based on a resurrection of cosmic dimensions, teaches time will go on forever. For too long we’ve allowed an unbiblical assumption (“there will be no time in Heaven”) to obscure overwhelming biblical revelation to the contrary. This has served Satan’s purposes of dehumanizing Heaven and divorcing it from the existence we know. Since we cannot desire what we can’t imagine, this misunderstanding has robbed us of desire for Heaven.
hope this helps !!!
Will We Experience Time in Heaven?
Scripture says, “With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day” (2 Peter 3:8). Does this mean there will be no time in Heaven?The natural understanding of a New Earth is that it would exist in space and time, with a future unfolding progressively, just as it does now. Yet people repeatedly say there will be “no time in Heaven.” One theologian argues, “What a relief and what joy to know that in heaven there will be no more time.”[7] Another writer says, “Heaven will be a place where time will stand still.”[8]
Where do such ideas come from? A misleading translation in the King James Version of the Bible says that “there should be time no longer” (Revelation 10:6). This was the basis for theologians such as Abraham Kuyper to conclude there will be no time in Heaven. But other versions correctly translate this phrase “There will be no more delay!” (niv, rsv), which means not that time itself will cease but that there is no time left before God’s judgment is executed.
Other people are confused because they remember the phrase “Time shall be no more” and think it’s from the Bible. It’s actually from a hymn. Ironically, the same hymn speaks of “When the morning breaks . . .” Both the words morning and when are references to time.
John Newton’s hymn “Amazing Grace” describes a better grasp of time:
When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise,
Than when we’d first begun.[9]
Scripture contains many other evidences of time in Heaven:
- Heaven’s inhabitants track with events happening in time, right down to rejoicing the moment a sinner on Earth repents (Luke 15:7).
- Martyrs in Heaven are told to “wait a little longer” when they ask “how long” before Christ would judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge the martyrs’ blood (Revelation 6:10-11). Those in Heaven couldn’t ask “how long” or be told “wait a little longer” unless time passes in Heaven.
- Paul spoke of Heaven in terms of “the coming ages” (Ephesians 2:7). He speaks not just of a future age but of ages (plural).
- God’s people in Heaven “serve him day and night in his temple” (Revelation 7:15).
- The tree of life on the New Earth will be “yielding its fruit every month” (Revelation 22:2). There are days and months both in the intermediate and eternal Heaven.
- God says, “the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me. . . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me” (Isaiah 66:22-23). New Moons and Sabbaths require moon, sun, and time.
- God said, “Summer and winter, day and night will never cease” (Genesis 8:22). This wasn’t the result of the Curse; it was God’s original design.
- We’re told that “there was silence in heaven for about half an hour” (Revelation 8:1).
- The book of Revelation shows the intermediate Heaven’s inhabitants operating within time. The descriptions of worship include successive actions, such as falling down at God’s throne and casting crowns before him (Revelation 4:10). There’s a sequence of events; things occur one after another, not all at once.
- The inhabitants of Heaven sing (Revelation 5:9-12). Music in Heaven requires time. Meter, tempo, and rests are all essential components of music, and each is time related. Certain notes are held longer than others. Songs have a beginning, middle, and end. That means they take place in time.
Is Time Bad or Good?
One writer maintains, “The end of the world is the end of time. Time will cease to exist. Time is a mark of the fallen state of the world.”[10] But this would be true only if Adam and Eve existed outside of time. But they didn’t. The sun rose and set in their perfect world. The sixth day of creation was followed by a day of rest. Time was not a mark of the world’s fallen state.God knows and can access past and future as readily as present. We can remember the past and anticipate the future, but we can live only in the present. Time is our environment.
Another author says, “Over everything on earth hangs the dark shadow of time.”[11] But the shadow is not time. The shadow is death, which is a loss of resources and opportunity. People imagine time is an enemy because the clock seems to move so slowly when we’re having a root canal and so quickly when we’re doing what we love. But time isn’t the problem, the Curse is. Time isn’t the enemy, death is (1 Corinthians 15:26). Time predated sin and the Curse. When the Curse is lifted, time will remain. Without the Curse, time will never work against us. We won’t run out of it. Time will bring gain, not loss. The passing of time will no longer threaten us. It will bring new adventures without a sense of loss, of what must end.
We’ll live with time, no longer under its pressure. When we see God face-to-face, time will pass, but we’ll be lost in him. We’ll be busy exploring his universe, working on projects, fellowshiping with him and each other, listening to and telling great stories. We’ll delight in time because it’s part of what God calls “very good.” It’s a dimension in which we’ll enjoy God.
When we say good-bye in Heaven, we’ll know people won’t die before we see them next. Time will no longer be an hourglass in which the sands of time go from a limited past to a limited future. Our future will be unlimited. We’ll no longer have to “number our days” (Psalm 90:12) or redeem the time, for time won’t be a diminishing resource about to end.
Theologian Henry Berkhof predicts that time itself will be resurrected to what God created it to be:
Time is the mould of our created human existence. Sin led to the fact that we have no time, and that we spend a hurried existence between past and future. But the consummation as the glorification of existence will not mean that we are taken out of time and delivered from time, but that time as the form of our glorified existence will also be fulfilled and glorified. Consummation means to live again in the succession of past, present, and future, but in such a way that the past moves along with us as a blessing and the future radiates through the present so that we strive without restlessness and rest without idleness, and so that, though always progressing, we are always at our destination.[12]
Buddhism, which knows no resurrection, teaches that time will be extinguished. Christianity, solidly based on a resurrection of cosmic dimensions, teaches time will go on forever. For too long we’ve allowed an unbiblical assumption (“there will be no time in Heaven”) to obscure overwhelming biblical revelation to the contrary. This has served Satan’s purposes of dehumanizing Heaven and divorcing it from the existence we know. Since we cannot desire what we can’t imagine, this misunderstanding has robbed us of desire for Heaven.
hope this helps !!!
But it is your position
And you have shown you cannot deal with the evidence or the scriptures that rebut your theology
yep
Jesus opened the seventh seal and then there was silence in heaven for about half an hour Rev. 8:1; martyrs in heaven (don't ask God to forgive those who killed them, but rather, lacking the false spirituality common on Earth), inherently acknowledging time in heaven, ask: "How long O Lord… until You… avenge our blood…?" Rev. 6:9; Greek philosophers with Christian theologians quoting them deny that God was or will be and claim He only "is", whereas God is "the One who is and who was and who is to come" and in heaven awaits the "time of the dead" when "they should be judged" Rev. 11:17-18; the tree of life bore twelve fruits, a different one each month Rev. 22:2; "this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down… from that time waiting till His enemies are defeated Heb. 10:12-13; As the LORD says, "I have held My peace a long time" Isa. 42:14; [etc.; plus the scores of verses above describing God as existing in everlasting duration.] If God's knowledge were unchanging however, then He could not know if heaven's silent half-hour were still future, had just begun, was past, etc. Some knowledge can only be known to a being that has changing knowledge. Creatures certainly have a "now" that we are experiencing and by the false teaching of timelessness and unchanging divine knowledge, then God could not even know what day it is. And if God had unchanging knowledge (as claimed by Plato and Augustine quoting him) then the LORD could not know what time it is, nor any other "tensed" fact. For even if you knew every line of a script you couldn't know which scene is currently being performed unless, like our God, you have changeable knowledge.
I dealt with your evidence just fine. Your own evidence, which apparently you didn't read, would make the cross Fate. Slow down on the cut and paste button there tiger. LOL
You ignored it
Scripture was posted showing God planning. He plans and he thinks
You had no answer at all.
Likewise. I need to know how a omniscient God plans. You have no answer at all. As usual.
That the bible says he does is more than sufficient
You have ignored verse after verse
Your question are not proof that can counter this
Hello
civic
Well-known member
Yes a total dodge , a dart
Your first sentence is incoherent. Try again and is hardly a answer.
There you go again, offering only bald denials
The bible states it
God plans, thinks and is shown planning
You deny it
You being quite deluded, imagine asking questions can rebut the bible proclamation
Not even close
And he vainly imagines he can ask question which rebut scriptureYes a total dodge , a dart
Similar threads
