Those who deny the Lord Jesus is God (=YHWH) are not saved (2 Corinthians 11:4)

[Fred]

Are you denying that the Angle Gabriel came to a Virgin named Mary and told her that the Holy Spirit was going to create insider her womb, The Son of God?

Nope, because Jesus being the Son of God is YHWH.

Are you denying this happened?

Nope.

Are you denying that Jesus was CREATED by the Holy Spirit, inside the worm of the Virgin Mary?

The body of Jesus was created.
He is eternal.
He is God.

 

[civic]

That’s fine. You placed me on the side of Dunn, and previously you set me on the side of Tyndale and the others. That’ll do.

Yes its fine I set myself on the side of Jesus and the Apostles- the Scriptures which are all truth and inspired unlike tyndale and dunn ( uninspired sinners ) who are just ordinary men like the rest of us sinners.

 

[civic]

the appeal to authority fallacy continues another day on BAM. its like groudhog day lol. it just keeps repeating itself every day.

 

[Behold]

Nope, because Jesus being the Son of God is YHWH.

Yes, Jesus is the SON of God, He's not the Father.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh".

Did you notice that God was on HIS Throne, while Jesus the God-Man, was down here walking on Water. ??

They are (2) who are ONE.

If you go to Heaven, then you'll find that this verse..

"Jesus is seated (bodily) on the right hand of the Father".......is true.

 

[Fred]

Yes, Jesus is the SON of God, He's not the Father.

Agree.

Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh".

Agree.

A false jesus who cannot save is not God.

 

[Matthias]

“Logos, however, was also a very familiar term to the wide range of Greeks who thought seriously about their world and their place in it. In Stoicism, one of the principal philosophies of the time, logos was the term used for the divine reason which Stoics believed was immanent in the world, permeating all things. As such, it was also present in man, as the seminal logos (logos spermatikos), so that man’s highest good was to live in accordance with and by assenting to this divine reason. Particularly helpful for John was the fact that the basic meaning of logos embraces both ‘thought, reason‘ and ‘speech utterance’. And the Stoics we’re accustomed to distinguish two aspects or phases of logos - logos = the unexpressed thought, the thought within the mind (logos endiathetos, and logos = the uttered thought, the thought expressed in speech (logos prophorikos).”

(James Dunn, ibid.)

“So, when John began his Gospel with ‘In the beginning was the logos’, it would speak immediately to a wide spectrum of any audience listening to his Gospel being read. Jewish listeners would think simply of a prophetic word which made God’s will known, but also of the powerful utterance of God by which he made the world and actually brought his will to effect. Greek listeners would similarly think of the divine reason which permeated and sustained the world and by living in accordance with which they could direct their lives to best effect. Likewise, when John continued, ‘The logos was with God and was God’, both sets of listeners would find this unexceptional. For the logos was God’s own thought and utterance.”

(James Dunn, Ibid., p. 348)

 

[Behold]

Agree.



Agree.

A false jesus who cannot save is not God.

Here is what i teach.

"God was manifested in the Flesh".

"Thomas said...>"my Lord and my God" to Jesus, who did not correct Him.

Jesus said....."Before Abraham was born, "I AM"... and that is the name that God gave to Moses from the burning bush, when Moses said... "what is your name". = 'I Am that I Am".

However, Jesus is not Father God.

Jesus said..>>"You believe in GOD, .. believe ALSO, in Me".

 

[Matthias]

“So, when John began his Gospel with ‘In the beginning was the logos’, it would speak immediately to a wide spectrum of any audience listening to his Gospel being read. Jewish listeners would think simply of a prophetic word which made God’s will known, but also of the powerful utterance of God by which he made the world and actually brought his will to effect. Greek listeners would similarly think of the divine reason which permeated and sustained the world and by living in accordance with which they could direct their lives to best effect. Likewise, when John continued, ‘The logos was with God and was God’, both sets of listeners would find this unexceptional. For the logos was God’s own thought and utterance.”

(James Dunn, Ibid., p. 348)

Dunn continues,

“And John’s further claim that ‘All things came into being through (the logos)‘ would similarly accord with the presuppositions of most of his audiences. This was how the divine was present in the world and to humankind. This was how God interacted with his creation and his people Israel. The Alexandrian Jewish philosopher Philo shows clearly how fruitfully Jewish and Greek (Platonic and Stoic) understanding of the logos could be combined, to envisage the Word/Logos almost as a divine agent of God, a plenipotentiary who made the invisible, transcendent God knowable and immanent.”

(Dunn, Ibid., p. 348)

 

[Behold]

“So, when John began his Gospel with ‘In the beginning was the logos’, it would speak immediately to a wide spectrum of any audience listening to his Gospel being read. Jewish listeners would think simply of a prophetic word which made God’s will known, but also of the powerful utterance of God by which he made the world and actually brought his will to effect. Greek listeners would similarly think of the divine reason which permeated and sustained the world and by living in accordance with which they could direct their lives to best effect. Likewise, when John continued, ‘The logos was with God and was God’, both sets of listeners would find this unexceptional. For the logos was God’s own thought and utterance.”

Here is how to try to understand something that is so mystical and is beyond a human's comprehension.

John 1:10, says that Jesus made the World. Colossians 1:16, says that Jesus made all of Creation.

Yet...>"GOD said........let there be".......

So, how can that be 2? How can that be.....>"Let US.... make man.....in OUR image".

A.) The Word was God.
B.) God was manifested IN the Flesh.

Now, think of it like this......= .God SPOKE creation into existence....., and Jesus pre-incarnate is the WORD of Creation.

Notice how God Speaking, is Jesus the WORD.... and its the HOLY SPIRIT that does the actual creating.

Notice..

"God is A Spirit"
"Christ is THAT Spirit".

A.) The HOLY Spirit

This is mystical, reader, very very mystical.

They are 2, yet, as Jesus said...>"If you've seen me, you've SEEN the Father" "I and my FATHER.... are one"

 

[Matthias]

Here is how to try to understand something that is so mystical and is beyond a human's comprehension.

John 1:10, says that Jesus made the World. Colossians 1:16, says that Jesus made all of Creation.

Yet...>"GOD said........let there be".......

So, how can that be 2? How can that be.....>"Let US.... make man.....in OUR image".

A.) The Word was God.
B.) God was manifested IN the Flesh.

Now, think of it like this......= .God SPOKE creation into existence....., and Jesus pre-incarnate is the WORD of Creation.

Notice how God Speaking, is Jesus the WORD.... and its the HOLY SPIRIT that does the actual creating.

Notice..

"God is A Spirit"
"Christ is THAT Spirit".

This is mystical, reader, very very mystical.

They are 2, yet, as Jesus said...>"If you've seen me, you've SEEN the Father" "I an my FATHER.... are one"

I’ll lay it out as Dunn brilliantly does.

 

[Behold]

I’ll lay it out as Dunn brilliantly does.

Yes, of course.. Do what you do, @Matthias

And i'll continue to lay it out, without the need of someone else's works, book, online sites, and so forth.

See, i never "cut and paste".

I hope you dont mind., and as always, thank you for your comment.

 

[Matthias]

“What John’s audiences would have found unexpected was the climax of the prologue:

And the Word became flesh and dwelt (eskenosen) among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. …No one has ever seen God. The only begotten God who is closest to his Father’s heart, has made him known (John 1.14, 18.) … The claim was astounding: the utterance by which God created the world and brought his purpose to effect had become incarnate in Jesus.”

(Dunn, ibid., pp. 348, 349)

 

[civic]

I’ll lay it out as Dunn brilliantly does.

I will lay it out inspired by God who is the Brilliant and all knowing One and not an uninspired sinner like dunn

These all agree with me HIM, not it. The Logos who is God, not an it. Unless matthias wants to confess God both times used in John 1:1 is an it.

New International Version
He was with God in the beginning.

New Living Translation
He existed in the beginning with God.

English Standard Version
He was in the beginning with God.

Berean Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.

Berean Literal Bible
He was in the beginning with God.

New King James Version
He was in the beginning with God.

New American Standard Bible
He was in the beginning with God.

NASB 1995
He was in the beginning with God.

NASB 1977
He was in the beginning with God.

Legacy Standard Bible
He was in the beginning with God.

Amplified Bible
He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God.

Christian Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This One himself was at the origin with God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
He was already with God in the beginning.

International Standard Version
He existed in the beginning with God.

Literal Standard Version
this One was in the beginning with God;

Majority Standard Bible
He was with God in the beginning.

New American Bible
He was in the beginning with God.

NET Bible
The Word was with God in the beginning.

New Revised Standard Version
He was in the beginning with God.

New Heart English Bible
He was in the beginning with God.

Weymouth New Testament
He was in the beginning with God.

Young's Literal Translation
this one was in the beginning with God;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
This One himself was at the origin with God.

Literal Emphasis Translation
He was in the beginning with God.

 

[Matthias]

Yes, of course.. Do what you do, @Matthias

And i'll continue to lay it out, without the need of someone else's works, book, online sites, and so forth.

See, i never "cut and paste".

I hope you dont mind., and as always, thank you for your comment.

I don’t mind at all. I’ve heard your commentary before. Other readers may not have.

Dunn, a trinitarian, is expressing my belief in his commentary on John’s prologue. He sees there what Tyndale, other trinitarian translators, and I see there.

Triniarians aren’t going to listen to my commentary. I’ll let Dunn (and other trinitarian scholars) say it for me.

 

[civic]

Yes, of course.. Do what you do, @Matthias

And i'll continue to lay it out, without the need of someone else's works, book, online sites, and so forth.

See, i never "cut and paste".

I hope you dont mind., and as always, thank you for your comment.

Amen, a man who can think for himself and support his belief's solely upon Gods inspired word.

You and I may disagree on some things but I highly respect you for your authority being based upon Gods inspired word and not man.

I could never accuse you of the appealing to authority fallacy.

 

[Behold]

I don’t mind at all. I’ve heard your commentary before. Other readers may not have.

Its important for members to know what "the others really believe" so that we can assess what it is that is trying to be a "teacher", on a forum.

Dont you agree that "what we believe" needs to be made CLEAR, so that each of us knows what we are dealing with, on a Forum..?

See, forums are always the same, "fights'.

OSAS
Trinity
KJV
Pred-destined Elect
Lose your Salvation
Mary
Pre-Trib
etc.

so, this forces me to only teach in that regard, most of the time.

I wish to GOD that Forums were filled with people, who were not all caught up in the same rabbit trail fist fights.
But, it is what it is, so, that forces me to teach regarding the same errors that are always being posted.

 

[Behold]

Amen, a man who can think for himself and support his belief's solely upon Gods inspired word.

You and I may disagree on some things but I highly respect you for your authority being based upon Gods inspired word and not man.

I could never accuse you of the appealing to authority fallacy.

Amen, brother.

We are called to obey the word, and study it to show ourselves approve to God.... so that we dont make a (donkey) out of ourselves trying to preach and teach, what we don't really and truly understand..

I dont recall Paul preaching "church fathers" or "some man's commentary".. In FACT He told us..>"i received MY REVELATION from NO MAN, I received it from CHRIST himself".
And Thank you Jesus... .who called Paul.............Paul gave us THE REVELATION in 13 epistles... and he gave it to the other Apostles in Acts 15.
We have it.
Its all OURS...

 

[Matthias]

And others here may not know that you are a Preterist, to the core, who does not believe that Hell exists, nor do you believe the Devil is real, or is still harming, tempting.

See, its important for members to know what "the others really believe" so that we can assess what it is that is trying to be a "teacher", on a forum.

Dont you agree that "what we believe" needs to be made CLEAR, so that each of us knows what we are dealing with, on a Forum..?

Also.

You have not heard that much of my commentary... .but you have heard a lot of it... .
See, forums are always the same, "fights'.

OSAS
Trinity
KJV
Pred-destined Elect
Lose your Salvation
Mary
Pre-Trib
etc.

so, this forces me to only teach in that regard, most of the time.

Now with that member Episkopos, on "that other site"....now that was different, as that one has Theology up and running, that ive never seen, or heard.
Its NT rejecting "different" to say the least.

I wish to GOD that Forums were filled with people, who were not all caught up in the same rabbit trail fist fights.
But, it is what it is, so, that forces me to teach regarding the same errors that are always being posted.

I’m not a preterist. Never have been, never will be. Everything which you said that I don’t believe in that sentence, I do believe.

I know you well enough to know that you wouldn’t intentionally misrepresent what someone else believes. You must have me confused with someone else.

 

[Behold]

I’m not a preterist. Never have been, never will be. Everything which you said that I don’t believe in that sentence, I do believe.

I know you well enough to know that you wouldn’t intentionally misrepresent what someone else believes. You must have me confused with someone else.

If you are not MatthewG, on another forum, then please accept my Apology, as i dont know any other "matthew" on a forum...that i recall.
I meet a lot of people on forums... so, ....

I will absolutely EDIT my post, as i have no reason to doubt your word., @Matthias


-B

 

[Matthias]

If you are not MatthewG, on another forum, then please accept my Apology, as i dont know any other "matthew" on a forum...that i recall.
I meet a lot of people on forums... so, ....

I will delete my post, as i have no reason to doubt your word.


-B

I’m not @MatthewG - on this forum or any other.

I disagree with his theology, as he also disagrees with mine.

I know him from time spent together on several forums; he can confirm for our readers that what I’ve said here is true.