The Water Baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13

[Fred]

The Spirit that they received had nothing to do with salvation.

The Holy Spirit being received had everything to do with their salvation.

They received miraculous empowerment,

They received the Holy Spirit Himself as well as the ability to speak in tongues.

The disciples in Acts 2 were already saved,

The baptism with the Holy Spirit placed them int the NT Church. Just like the baptism wiht the Holy Spirit placed these Gentiles into the NT Church.

and already had the indwelling of the Spirit when the Spirit fell on them in power.

No, they didn't.

And the Spirit fell on the Gentiles in exactly the same way in Acts 10.

Agree. Both groups were placed in the NT Church.

This had NOTHING to do with their salvation,

See above.

but was a sign to the Jews that the Gentiles were to be accepted into the Church as equals

Correct. They were "in the Church".

If one is "in the Church" they are saved.

 

[Doug Brents]

The Holy Spirit being received had everything to do with their salvation.

They received the Holy Spirit Himself as well as the ability to speak in tongues.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit placed them int the NT Church. Just like the baptism wiht the Holy Spirit placed these Gentiles into the NT Church.

No, they didn't.

Agree. Both groups were placed in the NT Church.

See above.

Correct. They were "in the Church".

If one is "in the Church" they are saved.

The Gentiles were not "in the Church" until they were baptized in water. John 3:5 says that being born again requires both water and the Spirit. 1 Pet 3:21 says that we are saved through water baptism. Acts 22:16 says that Paul's sins were washed away through baptism (in water, something Paul had to do). Gal 3:26-27 says that it is through baptism that we are clothed with Christ and are adopted into Christ. Eph 5:26-27 says that it is through baptism (the washing of water with the Word) that we are made pure and spotless spiritually.

Fred, there is only one baptism in the NT Church that has any meaning. If that one baptism is "Spirit baptism" as demonstrated on Pentecost and in Cornelius' house, then those two groups are the only ones who have or ever will be saved, because those two times are the only times this kind of "baptism" has ever happened. Baptism with the Spirit occurs during water baptism as is described in Rom 6:1-7 and Col 2:11-14, and 1 Pet 3:21.

 

[Fred]

The Gentiles were not "in the Church" until they were baptized in water.

False.

F

Post in thread 'Acts 22:16 Paul's salvation'

Sep 21, 2024

No, what took place with Cornelius and the other Gentiles was that they performed the miraculous speaking in tongues.

Which proves they were in the church before their water baptism (1 Corinthians 12:28).

No, not a contradiction.

Yes, a contradiction.
The world CANNOT receive the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant era (John 14:17).

Do you think you have the ability to perform signs, wonders and miracles like Cornelius?

No.

• Fred

John 3:5 says that being born again requires both water and the Spirit.

F

Post in thread 'The Water Baptism of Cornelius'

Nov 29, 2023

Jn 3:5 "water" refers to literal water as "Spirit" refers to literal Spirit.

"Water" in John 3:5 refers to the Holy Spirit.

Nicodemus, being a Pharisee would have easily made this connection from the Old Testament.
Ezekiel 36:25-27
(25) Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
(26) Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new Spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
(27) I will put My Spirit within...

• Fred

• 

Fred, there is only one baptism in the NT Church that has any meaning.

F

Post in thread 'Ephesians 4:5 - The One Baptism of The Sevenfold Unity of The Spirit.'

Aug 11, 2024

It's quite easy to figure out what the "one baptism" is in Ephesians 4:5 for it is the same thing as being "sealed with the Holy Spirit" that Paul earlier spoke of in Ephesians 1:13 and later on in Ephesians 4:30. This baptism/sealing with the Holy Spirit takes place at the moment of conversion.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.

Acts 15:7-8
(7) After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them...

• Fred

• 
• 

If that one baptism is "Spirit baptism" as demonstrated on Pentecost and in Cornelius' house, then those two groups are the only ones who have or ever will be saved, because those two times are the only times this kind of "baptism" has ever happened.

F

Post in thread 'All believers are baptized into The Body of Christ'

Aug 31, 2023

And again, to comply with other Scriptures, the obedience required to receive the indwelling (as opposed to miraculous wonders), repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and water baptism,

Your opinion is once again noted.

There is no other conversion experience that even comes close to what happened here. All other conversion stories comply with the Scriptures mentioned above that state that salvation is the result of our obedience in repentance, confession of Jesus' name, and water baptism. For that reason, this event cannot be taken as a precedent setting event.

An...

• Fred

 

[Titus]

The Holy Spirit was was given to the Gentiles before their water baptism (Acts 1117; 15:8).
Thus, they obeyed the gospel before their water baptism.

Hi Fred,
I'd appreciate if you'd answer my question on post #399

The discussion in on which baptism is 1Corinthians 12:13.
Thanks

 

[Doug Brents]

False.

Sorry, but it is not. You are trying to take some verses from Scripture and make your doctrine, but ignore other passages that give more complete information. Salvation occurs/is received when we, in faith, are immersed in water (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14) having repented of sin (Acts 3:19) and confessed Jesus as our Lord verbally and publicly (Rom 10:9-10, Matt 10:32-33). Anything short of this does not fulfill all Scripture.

 

[Titus]

Does the pouring out of the Spirit on the individual equate to salvation?​

Jesus poured out the Spirit on many.
Is all that recieve the Spirit their proof /seal of salvation?

Is this the purpose of Holy Spirit baptism as so many believe today?

Biblical examples of Jesus pouring out the Spirit on men.

All prophets that prophesized can only do so with the Holy Spirit being poured out on them.
All miracles performed can only be done through the Spirit that was poured out on the one performing the miracle.

Joel 2:28,
- and it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams your young men shall see visions

Matthew 26:3 ; 57; 65,
- then assembled together the chief priests and the scribes and the elders of the people unto the palace of the high priest who was called Caiaphas

- and they that laid hold on Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas the high priest where the scribes and the elders were assembled

- then the high priest rent His clothes saying He hath spoken blasphemy what further evidence have we of witnesses Behold now we have heard His blasphemy
- what think ye, they answered and said Jesus is guilty of death

John 11:49-51,
- and one of them named Caiaphas being the high priest that same year said unto them ye know nothing at all
- nor consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people and that the whole nation perish not

- and spake Caiaphas not of himself but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation

The Spirit is poured out on the high priest Caiaphas.

John 19:6,
- when the chief priests therefore and officers saw Jesus they cried out, saying crucify Him, crucify Him, Pilate saith unto them, take ye Him and crucify Him for I find no fault in Him

If this doctrine of Holy Spirit baptism sealing a person's soul unto eternal salvation then Caiaphas is saved with the pouring out of the Spirit on him.

Matthew 10:1-4,
- and when Jesus had called unto Him His twelve disciples He gave them  power against unclean spirits to cast them out and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease
- now the names of the twelve apostles are these the first Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother James the son of Zebedee and John his brother
- Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican James the son of Alpheus, and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus
- Simon the canaanite and Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus

Matthew 10:20,
- for it is not ye that speak but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh IN you

Matthew 12:28,
- but if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God surely the kingdom of God has come upon you

Mark 3:14-15,
- Jesus appointed twelve that they might be with Him and that He might send them out to preach
- and to have authority to drive out demons

If Holy Spirit baptism is the seal/guarantee of everyone who receives the pouring out of Gods Spirit then Judas Iscariot is sealed for eternity a guarantee of his salvation.

Matthew 7:22,23
- Many will say to Me in that day Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name and in thy Name have cast out devils and in thy Name done many wonderful works
- and then I will profess unto them I never knew you depart from Me ye that work lawlessness

These folks had the pouring out of the Holy Spirit upon them.
Does this prove they are saved?

Paul says something very important about Holy Spirit gifts,
1Corinthians 13,
- though I speak with tongues(Acts 10:44 Cornelius spoke in tongues) of men and of angels and have not love I am becoming as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal

- and thou I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and though I have all faith so that I could move mountains and have not love I AM NOTHING

Let us hear Peter tell us what saved Cornelius.
Remember the,Holy Spirit is speaking through Peter as he is Holy Spirit baptized.

Acts 11:14,
- who shall tell thee words(gospel) whereby thou and thy household SHALL BE SAVED
- and as I began to speak...

Peter had not taught the full gospel of Jesus Christ to Cornelius when the Holy Spirit fell upon him.

- and as I began to speak(the gospel) the Holy Spirit fell upon them as on us at the beginning

Where does faith in Jesus come from?
What is Gods power unto salvation?

Romans 10:17,
- Now faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God(gospel of Jesus Christ)

Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation...


If Cornelius was saved by the gift of speaking in tongues then Cornelius was saved before he heard the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ preached to him.

Can anyone be saved without hearing the gospel?

 

[Fred]

Sorry, but it is not. You are trying to take some verses from Scripture and make your doctrine, but ignore other passages that give more complete information.

Your way of ignoring the evidence I provided.

 

[Fred]

Hi Fred,
I'd appreciate if you'd answer my question on post #399

The discussion in on which baptism is 1Corinthians 12:13.
Thanks

The baptism with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Titus]

The baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Thanks Fred.

- for by one Spirit were ye all baptized

Cant be the Holy Spirit baptizing them Fred.
That is not what Paul means.
This interpretation is a misunderstanding of the verse.

 

[Fred]

Thanks Fred.

- for by one Spirit were ye all baptized

Cant be the Holy Spirit baptizing them Fred.
That is not what Paul means.
This interpretation is a misunderstanding of the verse.

Christ is the baptizer (John 1:33; Acts 2:33).

 

[Fred]

If Cornelius was saved by the gift of speaking in tongues

Tongues didn't save him.

Having this gift is proof that he was "in the Church" (1 Cor. 12:28) and this took place before he was water baptized.

then Cornelius was saved before he heard the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ preached to him.

You misunderstand the use of "began" in Acts 11:15.

If my preacher was describing a previous sermon by saying, "As I began to preach the Holy Spirit convicted the congregation" it would be perfectly plausible to believe that he was emphasizing the abruptness of the Holy Spirit's conviction. What my preacher said during his sermon was secondary. He wanted to underscore what the Holy Spirit did more than what he preached on. The same holds true with Luke's record of Peter's defense in Acts 11. Luke does not repeat everything that Peter said in Acts 10 but instead focused on what the Holy Spirit accomplished.

A Manuel Greek Lexicon of the New Testament: (a) absol...(b) relatively...Acts 11:15 (archē, page 62).


He did indeed hear the gospel and then the Spirit was given to him. See here:

F

Post in thread 'Ephesians 4:5 - The One Baptism of The Sevenfold Unity of The Spirit.'

Aug 11, 2024

It's quite easy to figure out what the "one baptism" is in Ephesians 4:5 for it is the same thing as being "sealed with the Holy Spirit" that Paul earlier spoke of in Ephesians 1:13 and later on in Ephesians 4:30. This baptism/sealing with the Holy Spirit takes place at the moment of conversion.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.

Acts 15:7-8
(7) After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them...

• Fred

• 
• 

Can anyone be saved without hearing the gospel?

No.

 

[Titus]

Christ is the baptizer (John 1:33; Acts 2:33).

Very good.
You have rightly divided.
Now who does Paul say baptizes in 1Corinthians 12:13?

Remember the Holy Spirit never baptized anyone.
Can't be taken as the baptizer is the Holy Spirit here.

The Holy Spirit only baptized through teaching never directly Himself.
The apostles baptized men.
They taught those men to be baptized.
Not on their own authority but through the Holy Spirit telling them what to teach and do.

Are you familiar that the Scriptures teach Jesus baptized?
He did because the Bible said He did so its irrefutable.
But He Himself was never the baptizer.

He baptized through His authority.
He commanded the baptism and those who did the literal baptizing were in this sense having Jesus baptize them.

John 4:1-2,
- When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
though Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples

So in this sense Paul is saying by One Spirit were we all baptized into one body

So it has nothing to do with the baptism of the apostles.
The baptism the apostles recieved was for their spiritual work in their ministry,
Holy Spirit baptism was performed by Jesus on the apostles.

We are in 1Corinthians 12:13 the context is spiritual gifts.
If this is Holy Spirit baptism then why does Paul not say...

- for by one Lord are we all Holy Spirit baptized into one body...

Mark 1:8,
- I indeed have baptized you with water but Jesus shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit


What say ye?

 

[Fred]

We are in 1Corinthians 12:13 the context is spiritual gifts.
If this is Holy Spirit baptism then why does Paul not say...

- for by one Lord are we all Holy Spirit baptized into one body...

The Bible doesn't have to repeat all the details of something every time in another area of Scripture.

 

[Titus]

The Bible doesn't have to repeat all the details of something every time in another area of Scripture

Sure,
That doesn't explain the meaning of 1Corinthians 12:13.
Saying the bible doesn't have to give all the details in every verse, isn't an explanation of any verse.

I asked you to explain the meaning of - For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body...
I've yet to get an answer.

You claim its Holy Spirit baptism,

Then the verse would say,
- for by one Lord were we all baptized with the Holy Spirit into one body...

The verse doesn't even mention Christ who is the only baptizer of Holy Spirit baptism.
Mark 1:8,
- I indeed baptized you with water,...

How did John baptize with water?
He did it by the Holy Spirit working through him.
So John's water baptism was by the One Spirit's authority.
Just as Jesus water baptized by His authority.

It can be said, by one Spirit were the Jews all baptized.

Mark 1:8,
- I indeed baptized you with water(by the Holy Spirit working in John) but Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Spirit

1Corinthians 12:13 can be water baptism.
But for it to be Holy Spirit baptism Jesus must be the baptizer not the Spirit because the Spirit never baptized anyone Himself.

All of the water baptism that took place were done by the Spirit working through John the baptizer and the apostles whom Jesus baptized with Holy Spirit baptism.

Therefore all water baptism in the new testament were by the One Spirit by His teaching by His authority.

Go back to 1Corinthians.
All what they apostles taught and did was by the One Spirit working in them.

1Corinthians 2:13,
- Which things also we(those under the influence of the Spirit)
- which things also we speak not in the words which mans wisdom  teacheth but which the Holy Spirit teacheth comparing spiritual things with spiritual

So all of the gospel that is taught by the apostles is by the one Spirit working through them.
Fact: Apostles taught even commanded folks to be water baptized.
Therefore water baptism is teaching from the Holy Spirit.
Therefore water baptism is part of the gospel of Christ.

John 14:26,
- but the Comforter which is the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name He shall teach you ALL things and bring to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you


Whatever the apostles taught was what Jesus told them to teach.
Jesus accomplished this through the Holy Spirit working in them.

The gospel of Jesus includes water baptism,
Matthew 28:19-20,
- Go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you...

To say the great commission which is Jesus' new testament gospel does not include water baptism is going against Jesus' command to observe all commandments that Jesus commanded.

Mark 16:15-16,
- Go ye into all the world and preach the  gospel to every creature he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be danmed

Jesus joined belief  and baptism together.
No man can seperate what God has joined together.

Tongues didn't save him.

Having this gift is proof that he was "in the Church" (1 Cor. 12:28) and this took place before he was water baptized.

Correct tongue speaking did not save Cornelius.
You just admitted that the Holy Spirit gift of tongue speaking did not save Cornelius.

That's all Cornelius got from the pouring out of the Spirit, one gift not gifts.

Acts 10:17,
- forasmuch as God gave them the like  gift as he did unto us who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ...

The first gift given to the apostles when Jesus baptized them with the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 was speaking in tongues.

The like gift given to Cornelius was speaking in tongues.
The apostles were not saved by the gift of tongue speaking.
Likewise Cornelius was not saved by tongue speaking.

If the pouring out of different gifts of the Holy Spirit saved.
Then what miraculous gift or gifts did God give you Fred as proof of your salvation?

Tongues didn't save him.

Having this gift is proof that he was "in the Church" (1 Cor. 12:28)

Yes, to prove to the jews.
The Jews needed this miracle as there was no new testament Bible to teach them that gentiles could be Gods elect in the one kingdom of God.

Now is miraculous gift or gifts proof today that we are added to the church?
If so what miraculous gift did you receive Fred?

Tongues didn't save him.

Having this gift is proof that he was "in the Church" (1 Cor. 12:28) and this took place before he was water baptized

Fred was Peter commanding Cornelius to be water baptized in Jesus' gospel?
Was the Holy Spirit commanding Cornelius to be water baptized in Acts 10:47-48?
What does Jesus say in His great commission?
- teaching them to observe ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you...
- and Peter  commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord(by Jesus' authority)

Does your gospel teach to obey some things like belief or..
all things whatsoever I have commanded you

and this took place before he was water baptized

By your reasoning if someone receives miraculous gift before water baptism then they are saved before water baptism.
A big problem with that doctrine is not all recieved the Holy Spirit gift/gifts before they were water baptized.
Some received it after they were water baptized.
You already admitted miraculous gifts does not save.

Acts 19:1-7,
- Paul said unto them, have ye recieved the Holy Spirit since ye BELIEVED, and they said unto him, we have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit

- then said Paul John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance saying unto the people that they should believe on Jesus which should come after John that is on Christ Jesus,

V 5) - when they heard this they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ(water baptized)

Not yet given miraculous gifts untill after their water baptism in the name of Christ Jesus.

V 6)
- and when Paul had laid His hands on them the Holy Spirit came upon them AND THEY SPAKE WITH TONGUES AND PROPHESIED

If my preacher was describing a previous sermon by saying, "As I began to preach the Holy Spirit convicted the congregation"

Let's have Peter tell us what convicted Cornelius to obey the gospel unto salvation.
Did Peter say what you said?
That a miraculous gift from the Holy Spirit saved Cornelius BEFORE he heard the full gospel preached to him or the WORDS Peter preached to him?

Acts 11:14,
- who shall tell thee words(gospel) whereby thou and all thy household shall be saved

We both agree tongue speaking didn't save Cornelius.
But the gospel that Peter was sent to preach to Cornelius did!!!

 

[Fred]

Sure,
That doesn't explain the meaning of 1Corinthians 12:13.
Saying the bible doesn't have to give all the details in every verse, isn't an explanation of any verse.

I asked you to explain the meaning of - For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body...
I've yet to get an answer.

You claim its Holy Spirit baptism,

Then the verse would say,
- for by one Lord were we all baptized with the Holy Spirit into one body...

What a mess.

It doesn't have to read according to your ridiculous demands.

There are other verses in the Bible that teach on this subject. Ignoring them and then insisting a passage doesn't read specifically a certain way is foolish.

 

[Fred]

Now is miraculous gift or gifts proof today that we are added to the church?

I already gave proof for this in 1 Corinthians 12:28.

Even when it specifically reads "in the church" you refuse to believe it.

 

[Fred]

Acts 11:14,
- who shall tell thee words(gospel) whereby thou and all thy household shall be saved

We both agree tongue speaking didn't save Cornelius.
But the gospel that Peter was sent to preach to Cornelius did!!!

Cornelius received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45)

Not just "a" gift, but THE gift of the Holy Spirit = The Holy Spirit Himself.

 

[Titus]

Post #406 already shows being given miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit is not proof of ones salvation.
Fred intentionally ignores Scripture that doesn't fit his churches teaching.
These examples all received the Holy Spirit.

Does the pouring out of the Spirit on the individual equate to salvation?​

Jesus poured out the Spirit on many.
Is all that recieve the Spirit their proof /seal of salvation?

Is this the purpose of Holy Spirit baptism as so many believe today?

Biblical examples of Jesus pouring out the Spirit on men.

All prophets that prophesized can only do so with the Holy Spirit being poured out on them.
All miracles performed can only be done through the Spirit that was poured out on the one performing the miracle.

Joel 2:28,
- and it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams your young men shall see visions

Matthew 26:3 ; 57; 65,
- then assembled together the chief priests and the scribes and the elders of the people unto the palace of the high priest who was called Caiaphas

- and they that laid hold on Jesus led Him away to Caiaphas the high priest where the scribes and the elders were assembled

- then the high priest rent His clothes saying He hath spoken blasphemy what further evidence have we of witnesses Behold now we have heard His blasphemy
- what think ye, they answered and said Jesus is guilty of death

John 11:49-51,
- and one of them named Caiaphas being the high priest that same year said unto them ye know nothing at all
- nor consider that it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people and that the whole nation perish not

- and spake Caiaphas not of himself but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation

The Spirit is poured out on the high priest Caiaphas.

John 19:6,
- when the chief priests therefore and officers saw Jesus they cried out, saying crucify Him, crucify Him, Pilate saith unto them, take ye Him and crucify Him for I find no fault in Him

If this doctrine of Holy Spirit baptism sealing a person's soul unto eternal salvation then Caiaphas is saved with the pouring out of the Spirit on him.

Matthew 10:1-4,
- and when Jesus had called unto Him His twelve disciples He gave them  power against unclean spirits to cast them out and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease
- now the names of the twelve apostles are these the first Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother James the son of Zebedee and John his brother
- Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican James the son of Alpheus, and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus
- Simon the canaanite and Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus

Matthew 10:20,
- for it is not ye that speak but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh IN you

Matthew 12:28,
- but if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God surely the kingdom of God has come upon you

Mark 3:14-15,
- Jesus appointed twelve that they might be with Him and that He might send them out to preach
- and to have authority to drive out demons

If Holy Spirit baptism is the seal/guarantee of everyone who receives the pouring out of Gods Spirit then Judas Iscariot is sealed for eternity a guarantee of his salvation.

Matthew 7:22,23
- Many will say to Me in that day Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy Name and in thy Name have cast out devils and in thy Name done many wonderful works
- and then I will profess unto them I never knew you depart from Me ye that work lawlessness

These folks had the pouring out of the Holy Spirit upon them.
Does this prove they are saved?

Paul says something very important about Holy Spirit gifts,
1Corinthians 13,
- though I speak with tongues(Acts 10:44 Cornelius spoke in tongues) of men and of angels and have not love I am becoming as sounding brass or a tinkling cymbal

- and thou I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and though I have all faith so that I could move mountains and have not love I AM NOTHING

Let us hear Peter tell us what saved Cornelius.
Remember the,Holy Spirit is speaking through Peter as he is Holy Spirit baptized.

Acts 11:14,
- who shall tell thee words(gospel) whereby thou and thy household SHALL BE SAVED
- and as I began to speak...

Peter had not taught the full gospel of Jesus Christ to Cornelius when the Holy Spirit fell upon him.

- and as I began to speak(the gospel) the Holy Spirit fell upon them as on us at the beginning

Where does faith in Jesus come from?
What is Gods power unto salvation?

Romans 10:17,
- Now faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God(gospel of Jesus Christ)

Romans 1:16,
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation...


If Cornelius was saved by the gift of speaking in tongues then Cornelius was saved before he heard the FULL gospel of Jesus Christ preached to him.

Can anyone be saved without hearing the gospel?

 

[Titus]

Sure,
That doesn't explain the meaning of 1Corinthians 12:13.
Saying the bible doesn't have to give all the details in every verse, isn't an explanation of any verse.

I asked you to explain the meaning of - For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body...
I've yet to get an answer.

You claim its Holy Spirit baptism,

Then the verse would say,
- for by one Lord were we all baptized with the Holy Spirit into one body...

Fred's response below,

What a mess.

It doesn't have to read according to your ridiculous demands.

There are other verses in the Bible that teach on the subject. Ignoring them and then insisting a passage doesn't read specifically a certain way is foolish

I never said it had to be word for word this,
-for by one Lord were we all baptized with the Holy Spirit into one body...

I simply gave an example of how it would be written to show the context is Holy Spirit baptism.
But also,
Sure there are other verses that teach on Holy Spirit baptism.
That doesn't give evidence that 1Corinthians 12:13 is Holy Spirit baptism.
You haven't proven 1Corinthians 12:13 is Holy Spirit baptism.
All you've done so far is claim it is.

Now is miraculous gift or gifts proof today that we are added to the church?
If so what miraculous gift did you receive Fred?

Your response below,

I already gave proof for this in 1 Corinthians 12:28.

Even when it specifically reads "in the church" you refuse to believe it

You did? Then what miraculous gift did you receive as evidence of you being added to the church?

Acts 11:14,
- who shall tell thee words(gospel) whereby thou and all thy household shall be saved

We both agree tongue speaking didn't save Cornelius.
But the gospel that Peter was sent to preach to Cornelius did!!!

Fred's response below,

Cornelius received "the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 10:45)

Not just "a" gift, but THE gift of the Holy Spirit = The Holy Spirit Himself.

The gift of tongue speaking when the Spirit was poured out on Cornelius.
Cornelius absolutely received the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit was the gift giver.
The tongue speaking was not the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit was the gift giver. And He gave Cornelius the gift of tongue speaking.

Again if miraculous gift/gifts is the evidence that by having the Holy Spirit poured out on Cornelius....
Then what gift/gifts did you receive as evidence of your salvation?

Every single example of someone in the new testament that recieved the pouring out of the Holy Spirit were given miraculous gifts.
There is not one exception to this rule.

So Fred, you claim to have received what Cornelius received.
You claim to be saved the same way Cornelius was saved.

So what miraculous gift can you perform as evidence of you being saved and added to the church?

If there are cases of no miraculous gifts included in examples of Holy Spirit baptism.
Then give one Bible passage that shows Holy Spirit baptism is not 100% in every example of Holy Spirit baptism a miraculous baptism of miraculous works like tongue speaking, prophecy, miraculous knowledge, etc.

You claim you have it and were saved by it.
Now show me one example where miraculous Holy Spirit baptism occurred that did not impart miraculous gifts to the one who recieved it?

How did christians in the 1st. Century prove they had received the miraculous pouring out of the Spirit?
100% of every case they performed miracles.

 

[Fred]

Post #406 already shows being given miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit is not proof of ones salvation.
Fred intentionally ignores Scripture that doesn't fit his churches teaching.
These examples all received the Holy Spirit.

Then it is in error because one cannot have a gift of the Spirit without having the Holy Spirit.

Using examples in order to refute this from events which took place before what is described in Acts 2:4 is irrelevant.