It's not only that it lacks support. For me it's the almost endless crazy contradictions that Trinity presents. Yet trinies don't care. A new Barna survey shows only 16% of Christian say they believe in Trinity.
The Trinity lacks any Biblical support
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
Quote a verse Runningman and prove from it your point.
well. maybe you can present arguments to support a unitarian view. All the other people trying to push that doctrine have failed to use basic exegetical skills. It seems they have a certain way of reading it that does not meet their expectations so they fall back to the unitarian view.
civic
Active Member
It's not only that it lacks support. For me it's the almost endless crazy contradictions that the unitarian presents. Yet uni's don't care.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Unitarian arguments are rather simple. It essential "boils down" to....
1. There is only one God that doesn't share anything of substance with anyone else.
2. God has shared everything with me.
I've never meet a Unitarian that was truly in love with Jesus. Never. Jesus is an obstacle for Unitarians.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Name your top three. Rank them from 1 thru 3 in order of magnitude.
Do you hate Trinitarians?
civic
Active Member
yes the stone which the builders stumbled over, a rock of offense.
So if you found a survey that said that God is a liar, you would accept that God is a liar?
Here's the current assessment at Barna: #americans-draw-theological-beliefs-from-diverse-points-of-view
If the poll is showing that 80% of Christians are ignorant, does that change who Christ is?
The problem can stem from forced atheist teaching in schools and of the failure of church groups to teach on the essence of Christ. I too had temporarily denied the deity of Christ in around 2012. That did not take away the fact of him as deity. Nor have I found basis to deny the testimony of scripture about him as deity.
Runningman
Active Member
The way they work around it is be rejecting most of the plain language the Bible says, redefine words, and use theological/philosophical concepts, normally rejecting a literal understanding of most of the Bible except where the Bible the Bible makes statements that seem to help them, then they will accept a literal reading of Scripture, yet they cannot find where anyone sympathized with their beliefs in Scripture.
sure. like:
John 1:18 (ESV)
18No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
TibiasDad
Active Member
The Word, became flesh, which clearly refers to Jesus, who is a distinctive divine person! No assumptions, just clear and precise logic.
It doesn’t say that they are not, either; but they are put on an equal plane of importance. So logically, they are not notably different.
You are making a logically errant argument; one need not state all aspects of reality in every situation.
Doug
Runningman
Active Member
There are not different manuscripts for John 3:16 to run to when things start getting inconvenient. It explicitly says the Son in your trinity is begotten. Uh oh.
John 3
16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Runningman
Active Member
Here's the issue with your "Word became flesh" idea. That means the Word is flesh, Jesus' flesh was killed. Means the immortal God died. You have presented a logically errant idea.
John 1:1-14 is in line with a creation in accordance with Jesus is explicitly said to have been created per Colossians 1:15 and Revelation 3:14.
the word "begotten" is not necessary and changes nothing. I could see how you do not care though. Jesus is still God but has physicality. His sonship possibly is through the birth through Mary but that does not make him any less of his deity.
TibiasDad
Active Member
The flesh man was killed, the Spirit man who created the cosmos and everything that was ever created, is life itself and does not die, nor can it! Our flesh may die, and the human existence called by name is gone with it from earthly reality, but the spiritual being that animated that body lives on forever. Jesus’s flesh perished on the cross, but the Spirit of Jesus returned back to the Father waiting to resurrect the flesh 3 days later.
As for πρωτότοκος in Col 1:15, it means “the preeminent one” over all creation, as the creator of something tends to be. This is precisely what John says in Rev 3:15 when he says he is “the Arche” of all creation. Arche, when applied to a person, means preeminent in relation to other people. The Archbishop, in the Anglican Church, for example, is the preeminent bishop of all other bishops. That is the meaning in Rev 3:15 and Col 1:15.
Doug
Yes, Runningman, literal word for word Bible translations renders John 1:18 as - "the only God" or "only begotten God" supported by the oldest manuscripts, the papyri 66 and 75. And described as the "original wordings" of the text.
There are variant readings but was not described as original wordings.
Runningman
Active Member
Being begotten means Jesus had a starting point, isn't God, isn't eternal. This is why most trinitarians try to denounce the begotten Son of God. Him being begotten as Scripture states is a stumbling block to them. I hope you aren't one of them, too.
TibiasDad
Active Member
He does as a human; we celebrate it every year on Dec 25th. The Word does not have a beginning, for he created whatever has been created.
John 1:3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Now if the Word has a beginning, then the statement “without him nothing was made that has been made” is not true.
Doug
civic
Active Member
Amen truly God !!!
The word "begotten" bears Strong#G3439, in Greek "μονογενής monogenēs" defined by Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain as - in the sense of being the only one of the same kind or class.
That proves that Jesus is of the same kind or class with the Almighty God the Father as "God."
Joh 1:18 R1NoG3762 oneG3762 has seenG3708 GodG2316 at anyG4455 timeG4455; R2the onlyG3439 begottenG3439 GodG2316 who is R3in the bosomG2859 of the FatherG3962, R4He has explainedG1834 Him.
G3439
μονογενής monogenēs
pertaining to what is unique in the sense of being the only one of the same kind or class -
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)
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