The Theology in Calvinism

There's nothing wrong with promoting a godly man. God Himself does it. Look how he exalted Job? He also commends those men who have a contrite and broken heart. And we are supposed to imitate Him, are we not? Yes, God has favorites among men - those who fear Him.

Really?

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Do you accept the teaching of this Scripture or do you reject it?

Job was praised by God? God said there were none like Job on the earth. You may see that as praise, but I believe you are wrong. The best of men are still men.

Job confessed his sinfulness.....

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.


Who said anything about "casting truth aside"? I never knowingly do that.

If Satan speaks the Truth. Don't cast it aside because Satan said it.

But when Satan speaks truth or a wicked man speaks truth, a good response is to avoid them and warn others of them. If they can't be avoided for some reason, a rebuke is in order, for their hypocrisy. Worst case scenario, if they're possessed, casting out a demon may be what's required.

So you're actually "casting out demons"?

By the way, surely you know that all cults speak some truth mixed with lies. So would you recommend associating with them because they do have some truth? If you would, that would be a violation of scripture.

They don't scare me because I know the Truth. By the way, cults use this same argument to prevent those "outside their ranks" from influencing them. You're advocating brothers and sisters in Christ because they are wrong. You can't work to change someone if you avoid those that are wrong. Truth is Truth.

If John Calvin were alive today, I would avoid him, warn others about him, and pray for him to be delivered from the lies that he believes, just like I would any other person caught up in a cult.

I wouldn't. I would challenge him and use the Truth he accepts against him. I'm glad others have done the same to me.
 
Really?

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Do you accept the teaching of this Scripture or do you reject it?

I reject it! That's a silly question, of course I accept it. We can't pick and choose to accept some scripture, but not all scripture.

Job was praised by God? God said there were none like Job on the earth. You may see that as praise, but I believe you are wrong. The best of men are still men.

Do you accept Job 1:8 or do you reject it? "The Lord said to Satan, 'Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

If you don't think that is exalting Job, then you'd better get your eyes checked out. God NEVER said Job was without sin. But He definitely exalted him.

Job confessed his sinfulness.....

Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Again, nobody's claiming that Job was without sin.




If Satan speaks the Truth. Don't cast it aside because Satan said it.



So you're actually "casting out demons"? I have actually attempted that 2 times in my many decades as a believer. The first guy, turned around and ran like a scared rabbit. The 2nd guy was either drunk or high on drugs, which I didn't realize at first, and it didn't seem to even phase him.



They don't scare me because I know the Truth. By the way, cults use this same argument to prevent those "outside their ranks" from influencing them. You're advocating brothers and sisters in Christ because they are wrong. You can't work to change someone if you avoid those that are wrong. Truth is Truth.

I don't totally isolate myself from those in cults, if that's what you're saying. When JW's knock on my door, I do my best to steer them in the right direction. I have even gone up to some in the street who are "witnessing"to do the same. I do the same with Mormon "missionaries". I invited a JW co-worker to my house to lead him out of that group and to Christ. I also invited 2 Mormons to my house, for the same reason. I befriended a Mormon co-worker, who was interested in discussing faith. I gave a good book that exposes the Mormon church to a secretary who was inquiring about it. So, no, I'm not afraid of them.

Why do keep bringing up fear? Apparently, since we don't agree, you think I'm afraid of Calvinists or others I don't agree with? That would be wrong. I'm concerned for their salvation. But I don't have close friends who are in a cult. My close friends are like-minded sincere believers.

The reason that I would avoid John Calvin is because he would not be just the average run-of-the-mill cult member. He was a leader, not only deceived himself, but actively and publicly deceiving others, committed to spreading his cancerous teaching. As such, in my mind, he would fall into the category of persons that Paul TELLS US TO AVOID in 2 Timothy 3:1-5, specifically arrogant, unloving, unholy, irreconcilable, brutal, haters of good, and conceited. As a matter of fact, most cult leaders fit this description.



I wouldn't. I would challenge him and use the Truth he accepts against him. I'm glad others have done the same to me.
 
Looking up additional history of John Calvin doesn't paint a pretty picture. Even as a young teen in a French university - yes, he was very smart for his age - he was a severe critic of the faults of his fellow students. He was a student of humanism. He was apparently converted, possibly in his early twenties saying that "God subdued my heart". He "could not be silent" about his views, even though he thought of himself as a timid man. Those who heard about his views apparently thronged to hear what he called "the purer doctrine". He had a "new scriptural faith", it was said.

He ended up in Geneva at 27 and became one of a group of ministers, but it is not known how. The city's governing body used articles by Calvin and another man, Farel, to "reform religion" in the city. "Certain persons of good life and repute" were appointed to supervise discipline for people who violated the articles. Two years went by and the people rebelled against Calvin and Farel, to the point that they had to leave the city. He went to Strasbourg and lectured in theology for three years.

The situation in Geneva was unstable, so they asked Calvin to come back to resume his work. He again immediately set up a system of discipline, preaching, worship, and instruction with a ministry of pastors, teachers (doctors), elders, and deacons, which the city governing body accepted. So the governing body of the church, which was called the Little Council, also governed the city. Apparently Calvin had a certain amount of charisma, and he was constantly active, so the Geneva church and the city recognized him as their leader.

Once again, discipline was meted out, at first fairly mild, but under Calvin it became severe and all people, no matter their position, were "watched". All the laws and regulations were rigidly enforced. Such "offenses" as gambling, drunkenness, and even dancing and singing flippant songs drew grave penalties. Once again the citizens resented this discipline and opposition to Calvin grew. He was often insulted and thought he would be physically harmed or fired, but somehow he survived several crises. During this time, he continued preaching, lecturing, writing, and contending with his opponents - often angrily and harshly. He also encouraged the burning of witches. In 1555, nine years before his death, he attained a permanent victory. There was a great influx of refugees, mostly French speaking, who were already Calvinist by persuasion. They became a considerable factor in the voting citizenship.

Many eminent men were victims of Calvin's purposeful leadership. A schoolmaster was refused admission to the ministry for his startling views of the Song of Solomon. The struggle ended with him leaving Geneva and a letter of complaint as to how he handled the Bible. Jacques Gruet was beheaded for blasphemy, treason, and a threat to the ministers. Jerome Bolsec, a physician who attacked Calvin's doctrine of predestination was banished. Bolsec even wrote a book after Calvin died called "Life of Calvin" - that was in 1577. In the book, he accused Calvin of many wrongs - some say much of the book was lies. Then in 1553, a renowned Spanish anti-Trinitarian, Michael Servetus, was charged with being a heretic and was burned at the stake. He had clashed with Calvin long before, written against him, and engaged in controversial correspondence with him. Servetus was brought to "trial", and later burned, although Calvin sought the punishment of beheading. Calvin defended the death penalty for "heresy" and later wrote of Servetus and his doctrines with loathing.

Geneva was virtually under Calvin's total sway from 1555. In 1558 the Academy of Geneva became a "nursery" of Calvinism, sending its alumni to all parts of Europe. He was known for his intensity and hot temper. In his forties he was assailed by a series of painful diseases, which sapped his vitality, but he still continued writing commentaries, treatises, and pamphlets and corresponded with many until his death in 1564.
 
I don't totally isolate myself from those in cults, if that's what you're saying. When JW's knock on my door, I do my best to steer them in the right direction. I have even gone up to some in the street who are "witnessing"to do the same. I do the same with Mormon "missionaries". I invited a JW co-worker to my house to lead him out of that group and to Christ. I also invited 2 Mormons to my house, for the same reason. I befriended a Mormon co-worker, who was interested in discussing faith. I gave a good book that exposes the Mormon church to a secretary who was inquiring about it. So, no, I'm not afraid of them.

Then continually engage them.

Why do keep bringing up fear? Apparently, since we don't agree, you think I'm afraid of Calvinists or others I don't agree with? That would be wrong. I'm concerned for their salvation. But I don't have close friends who are in a cult. My close friends are like-minded sincere believers.

I have friends that are lost. I can separate Eternal things from temporal things. I can love humanity in Adam. We are all brothers. We can't have relationships with some but we should be careful not to abandon our brothers in Adam.

The reason that I would avoid John Calvin is because he would not be just the average run-of-the-mill cult member. He was a leader, not only deceived himself, but actively and publicly deceiving others, committed to spreading his cancerous teaching. As such, in my mind, he would fall into the category of persons that Paul TELLS US TO AVOID in 2 Timothy 3:1-5, specifically arrogant, unloving, unholy, irreconcilable, brutal, haters of good, and conceited. As a matter of fact, most cult leaders fit this description.

2 Timothy 3:1-5 isn't for everyone. It is detailing those that would seek to destroy us because of what we believe. Granted, Calvin did have an issue with this. However, today isn't times past. We have the ability to reach others anonymously. Even those who would seek to destroy us.
 
The glee you guys take in castigating beliefs you don't like is deplorable.

You all say you want to debate the issue? And then don't debate, only degrade. All you want is a platform from which you can wreck havoc and create destruction. And like a jihadist no doubt tell yourselves you are serving God. So it's been a blast and so long. @civic @atpollard @dizerner
@Theophilus I only directed this through your post because of the Titanic remark. I haven't really seen you in these debates.
This is nothing but projecting and ad hominem attacks and making things personal. When a person cannot defend their beliefs they usually resort to personal attacks. The above is an example of what this forum is not about and here for with our members. So leaving is your decision. If you cannot stand the heat as they say get out of the kitchen. When a person resorts to personally attacking others then its a good thing for them to leave. You have my full blessing.
 
This is nothing but projecting and ad hominem attacks and making things personal. When a person cannot defend their beliefs they usually resort to personal attacks. The above is an example of what this forum is not about and here for with our members. So leaving is your decision. If you cannot stand the heat as they say get out of the kitchen. When a person resorts to personally attacking others then its a good thing for them to leave. You have my full blessing.

He was a hypocrite, constantly attacking while accusing others of it.

A real bad egg.


Let's keep those bad eggs in prayer.
 
He was a hypocrite, constantly attacking while accusing others of it.

A real bad egg.



Let's keep those bad eggs in prayer.
I know what one is because I was that person for so many years on the old forum most of us were on and you guys knew what I was like. So I know from first hand experience what that looks like in others and what I was like for all those years with allot of you guys. Its why I don't want this place to be like that and for all of us (myself included ) to act like adults and treat others respectfully. I really don't think that is a hard ask, do you ?
 
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No one!!!!!???? I just did. And being a Calvinist myself, I find what it said about PSA correct. Of course that accounts for nothing because it disagrees with the way you choose to portray it. In any case, per usual, what you post as the the be all and end all to the matter is as empty as empty can possible be.

But I understand.

Here are some truisms concerning the male of the species. And of course it is stereotype but like old wives tales, they contain an element of truth based on evidence.

They find it humiliating to ask for directions.
They find it humiliating to say "I don't know," or "I was wrong." And so they will not do any of those things no matter how wrong or what foolishness arises because of these mental roadblocks. :)
Really you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth which is double speak. Here you agreed with me 100% against PSA. You were not even aware of what the reformed/calvinists theologians teach on the topic and I had to educate you on the doctrine. You denied it was Gods wrath on the Son on the cross several times in this link below which you were in agreement with me. One thing I never do is forget what I have said and taught and I have a great recollection of my previous conversations with posters on forums. I know exactly what I believe without wavering on the doctrines I believe and know who and what I'm countering when I post a response. As they say the proof is in the pudding. And I have all the proof I need below on the topic. You stand corrected once again and prove I was correct all along. You should apologize for misrepresenting me and being dishonest about your beliefs.

 
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No one!!!!!???? I just did. And being a Calvinist myself, I find what it said about PSA correct. Of course that accounts for nothing because it disagrees with the way you choose to portray it. In any case, per usual, what you post as the the be all and end all to the matter is as empty as empty can possible be.

But I understand.

:)
And here you agreed with me again denying PSA.

Its EXACTLY what I believe !!!

I will quote your exact words: " In any case, no matter what the Reformed view is my view is: Jesus did not take the wrath of God for us upon Himself "

 
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