The Power of the Gospel

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praise_yeshua

Well-known member
The resident Calvinists here dishonor God with their false claims concerning the Gospel.

The Gospel is Intrinsically POWERFUL.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Calvinism removes the power of the Gospel. The power of the Gospel is relative to the speaker, not the hearer.

1Co 14:9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
 
praise_yeshua said:
The resident Calvinists here dishonor God with their false claims concerning the Gospel.

The Gospel is Intrinsically POWERFUL.
Click to expand...
Yes it is. This is why some say that the Gospel IS Christ. They have a point.

But nothing happens in a vacuum. The Gospel does not operate separately from God himself.
praise_yeshua said:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Calvinism removes the power of the Gospel. The power of the Gospel is relative to the speaker, not the hearer.

1Co 14:9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.

1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Click to expand...
Agreed completely. So how, again, does this differ from Calvinism? Only in your mind, and in your take of the above—in the strange superstitious notion that the Gospel is its own power different and separate from the power of God. It is no such thing.
 
makesends said:
Yes it is. This is why some say that the Gospel IS Christ. They have a point.
Click to expand...

The Gospel didn't die on Calvary nor did it "arise" from the Grave. The Gospel is all about Christ. I haven't seen anything from you but you.

Case in point.

makesends said:
But nothing happens in a vacuum. The Gospel does not operate separately from God himself.
Click to expand...

The Gospel is gifted to mankind and men preach the Gospel. Some preach it properly. Most do not. The result/fruitfulness of the Gospel is dependent upon who is preaching and how well they preach.

makesends said:
Agreed completely. So how, again, does this differ from Calvinism? Only in your mind, and in your take of the above—in the strange superstitious notion that the Gospel is its own power different and separate from the power of God. It is no such thing.
Click to expand...

No. You don't "agree completely". I'll post the Scriptures again so you "might" actually deal with them instead of your traditional "Wave of one's hand".

You need to get into the details of what the Scriptures actually say. In fact, I'm going to ask that you deal with each reference independently.
 
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makesends said:
in the strange superstitious notion that the Gospel is its own power different and separate from the power of God. It is no such thing.
Click to expand...

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Details.....

Notice how Paul states explicitly that the actual power of God that brings salvation is infused in the Gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God

IT IS THE POWER OF GOD.

This is contrary to the position you've created or received from another.

Notice vs 17. Verse 17 states explicitly how the revelation of God's righteousness is accomplished from faith to faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written,

Man to man. Notice the conformation later in Paul's Gospel to Rome. A "Branded" Gospel. HIS GOSPEL.

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Confirmed later in his letter to Rome.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Man can NOT BELIEVE without a preacher. Period.
 
1Co 14:9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.

@makesends

Notice how Paul TIES understand of "Spiritual Things" to the ability to discern the clearly spoken language of men.

Which is contrary to your fabrication or the fabrication of what you've received from another. Even "spiritual" things are dependent upon the natural language of men.
 
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Notice the appeal to an undefined "some".

Notice why Paul unique becomes "all things to all men".....

Paul also witnesses his uniqueness and abilities

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Notice the very appeal to the power of the Gospel that Paul preached. Paul explicitly declares that He had begotten them through the Gospel.

Notice the same appeal to Galatia.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Contrary to what Caan declared. We are our brother's keeper.

Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

@makesends Must be nice for you to just abandon humanity.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Details.....

Notice how Paul states explicitly that the actual power of God that brings salvation is infused in the Gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God

IT IS THE POWER OF GOD.

This is contrary to the position you've created or received from another.

Notice vs 17. Verse 17 states explicitly how the revelation of God's righteousness is accomplished from faith to faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written,

Man to man. Notice the conformation later in Paul's Gospel to Rome. A "Branded" Gospel. HIS GOSPEL.

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Confirmed later in his letter to Rome.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Man can NOT BELIEVE without a preacher. Period.
Click to expand...
So do you disagree or not, with what I said? I don't disagree with what you say here, unless by it, you mean something more than what you have said. I'm guessing you think it proves me wrong, but you don't say how.

For example, you highlight (bold) "it is the power of God", and then you repeat in bold caps, "IT IS THE POWER OF GOD." Nothing I have said disagrees with that. You seem to think that your default worldview is THE way to read Scripture.
 
praise_yeshua said:
1Co 14:9 It is the same for you. If you do not speak clearly with your tongue, how will anyone know what is being said? For you will be speaking into the air.

@makesends

Notice how Paul TIES understand of "Spiritual Things" to the ability to discern the clearly spoken language of men.

Which is contrary to your fabrication or the fabrication of what you've received from another.
Click to expand...
Because YOU said so? I could say the same to you.

praise_yeshua said:
Even "spiritual" things are dependent upon the natural language of men.
Click to expand...

But this that you say: "Even "spiritual" things are dependent upon the natural language of men." — can you show me this from Scripture? Seems to me rather reversed, at best.
 
praise_yeshua said:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Details.....

Notice how Paul states explicitly that the actual power of God that brings salvation is infused in the Gospel.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God

IT IS THE POWER OF GOD.

This is contrary to the position you've created or received from another.

Notice vs 17. Verse 17 states explicitly how the revelation of God's righteousness is accomplished from faith to faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written,

Man to man. Notice the conformation later in Paul's Gospel to Rome. A "Branded" Gospel. HIS GOSPEL.

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Confirmed later in his letter to Rome.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Man can NOT BELIEVE without a preacher. Period.
Click to expand...
Do you think Jesus may have been the one who preached the gospel to Paul the Apostle?

Just curious I'm not trying to stir the pot. But what do you think about Paul "On the road to Damascus"? I think he saw the light of Jesus when he was blinded. And Jesus spoke to him. It seems like to me when Paul sees a blinding light, and communicates directly with a divine voice his salvation could have happened right there.

I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. But when God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. Galatians 1:11–16

Where I'm going with this that I agree the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
 
Bronson said:
Do you think Jesus may have been the one who preached the gospel to Paul the Apostle?

Just curious I'm not trying to stir the pot. But what do you think about Paul "On the road to Damascus"? I think he saw the light of Jesus when he was blinded. And Jesus spoke to him. It seems like to me when Paul sees a blinding light, and communicates directly with a divine voice his salvation could have happened right there.

I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. But when God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. Galatians 1:11–16

Where I'm going with this that I agree the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
Click to expand...

No. It is not of human origin but it was accomplished in natural means before the entire world. If what the Calvinist says is true.....

Then Jesus would have died in a "backroom" somewhere for only the elect to know.
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
The Gospel is not a magical incantation. Just reading it or speaking it has no magical effect. God must enable you to receive it.
Click to expand...

I never said anything about "magic". Why are you being so dishonest?

The Gospel is enablement.

You didn't get saved until some man preached to you the Gospel and that man wasn't Jesus. So.... stop pretending that God had to drag you to himself.
 
makesends said:
So do you disagree or not, with what I said? I don't disagree with what you say here, unless by it, you mean something more than what you have said. I'm guessing you think it proves me wrong, but you don't say how.

For example, you highlight (bold) "it is the power of God", and then you repeat in bold caps, "IT IS THE POWER OF GOD." Nothing I have said disagrees with that. You seem to think that your default worldview is THE way to read Scripture.
Click to expand...

You seem to think that your default worldview is THE way to read Scripture.

So if the Gospel is the power of God, then why the "dragging"?
 
praise_yeshua said:
I never said anything about "magic". Why are you being so dishonest?

The Gospel is enablement.

You didn't get saved until some man preached to you the Gospel and that man wasn't Jesus. So.... stop pretending that God had to drag you to himself.
Click to expand...

Well, YOU must be magical, because you seem to know everything I think and how I got saved. Bravo. Now, can you tell me who's going to win the World Series this year?
 
The Rogue Tomato said:
Well, YOU must be magical, because you seem to know everything I think and how I got saved. Bravo. Now, can you tell me who's going to win the World Series this year?
Click to expand...

The Scriptures define how people get saved and you didn't get saved without a preacher that wasn't God. You're the one defining magical. I'm appealing to natural things.
 

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