The New Covenant was PRIOR to the Law and Old Covenant

[civic]

The new covenant has not been instituted yet. It will be instituted fully when Jesus returns to save Israel. This is at the second coming. The church today is simply partially included in that future covenant. We didn’t make a covenant with Jesus. He made a covenant with Abraham about his great great, great great, great, great ……..grandkids

Jesus Instituted it at the Last Supper with His disciples. Hebrews tell us the Old is Obsolete- The New has come, the old is gone.

At the Last Supper, Jesus took a cup and said, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you” (Luke 22:20). Moments before, the Lord had broken the bread and given it to His disciples with the words, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me” (verse 19). With these symbolic actions Jesus instituted the ordinance of communion, or the Lord’s Table.

The Old Covenant required blood sacrifices, but it could not provide a final sacrifice for sin. The Old Covenant required repeated, daily sacrifices of animals as a reminder of the people’s sin. But, as Scripture says, “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Under the Old Covenant, the same inadequate sacrifices were constantly repeated. For every sin, the process was replicated, day after day, month after month, year after year. The Old Covenant never provided a full, complete sacrifice for sin. “For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second” (Hebrews 8:7, ESV).

Jesus came to establish a “better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22), a “new covenant” that Jesus said was in His blood. Jesus shed His blood on the cross to take away the sins of the world (John 1:29) and ratify the new covenant between God and man. On the night He was betrayed, Jesus took the cup and said to His disciples, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Matthew 26:27–28). By “this cup,” Jesus referred, by metonymy, to the contents of the cup, which was the “fruit of the vine” (Mark 14:25). This was representative of Christ’s blood. Jesus gave His disciples the cup, infusing it with new meaning, and told them drinking it was to be a memorial of His death: it was to be drunk “in remembrance of me” (1 Corinthians 11:25). Now, “whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes” (verse 26).

The New Covenant is based on faith in the shed blood of Christ to take away sin, not on repeated sacrifices or any other kind of work (see Ephesians 2:8–9). Because Jesus is the holy Lamb of God, His one-time sacrifice is sufficient to atone for the sins of all who believe in Him. We “partake” of Jesus by coming to Him in faith (John 1:12), trusting that His shed blood (and broken body) is sufficient to pay for our sins. The elements of bread and wine commemorate His death and the shedding of His blood. When we eat those elements in communion with other believers, we affirm our faith and fellowship in Christ.got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Truther]

Jesus Instituted it at the Last Supper with His disciples. Hebrews tell us the Old is Obsolete- The New has come, the old is gone.

At the Last Supper, Jesus took a cup and said, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you” (Luke 22:20). Moments before, the Lord had broken the bread and given it to His disciples with the words, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me” (verse 19). With these symbolic actions Jesus instituted the ordinance of communion, or the Lord’s Table.

The Old Covenant required blood sacrifices, but it could not provide a final sacrifice for sin. The Old Covenant required repeated, daily sacrifices of animals as a reminder of the people’s sin. But, as Scripture says, “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Under the Old Covenant, the same inadequate sacrifices were constantly repeated. For every sin, the process was replicated, day after day, month after month, year after year. The Old Covenant never provided a full, complete sacrifice for sin. “For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second” (Hebrews 8:7, ESV).

Jesus came to establish a “better covenant” (Hebrews 7:22), a “new covenant” that Jesus said was in His blood. Jesus shed His blood on the cross to take away the sins of the world (John 1:29) and ratify the new covenant between God and man. On the night He was betrayed, Jesus took the cup and said to His disciples, “Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins” (Matthew 26:27–28). By “this cup,” Jesus referred, by metonymy, to the contents of the cup, which was the “fruit of the vine” (Mark 14:25). This was representative of Christ’s blood. Jesus gave His disciples the cup, infusing it with new meaning, and told them drinking it was to be a memorial of His death: it was to be drunk “in remembrance of me” (1 Corinthians 11:25). Now, “whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes” (verse 26).

The New Covenant is based on faith in the shed blood of Christ to take away sin, not on repeated sacrifices or any other kind of work (see Ephesians 2:8–9). Because Jesus is the holy Lamb of God, His one-time sacrifice is sufficient to atone for the sins of all who believe in Him. We “partake” of Jesus by coming to Him in faith (John 1:12), trusting that His shed blood (and broken body) is sufficient to pay for our sins. The elements of bread and wine commemorate His death and the shedding of His blood. When we eat those elements in communion with other believers, we affirm our faith and fellowship in Christ.got?

hope this helps !!!

Agreed that we are in the new covenant, but not a fully implemented covenant. For now, it is partially implemented and we can only see it through a "welders mask".

It will be fully implemented at the return of Christ for the nation of Israel, then we will see it face to face and the partial gifts shall not be needed.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Bare with me for a few minutes. I believe there are a few things to keep in mind when dealing with the word "New" and "Old" relative to covenants/testaments.

1. There is a difference between a testament and a covenant. Though in English, there are largely used interchangeably relative to the "NT Testament".

2. Though New is certain different than "Old", "New" is not an indication that everything is different. It is simply a reference to New aspects/things that are different.

3. The New Covenant/Old Covenant distinctions are mostly relative to man. God's Character never changes. Immutability is a key aspect to the plan of God. What pleases God has never changed. Never. It remains an immutable aspect of God's Character.

There are many things I could say based upon these key aspects of God's revelation to humanity through the Scriptures. However, I believe it would be a good "thing" to go through what anyone might find wrong about these three "points" I've listed as facts. Let me know your thoughts.

I will elaborate in other posts.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Agreed that we are in the new covenant, but not a fully implemented covenant. For now, it is partially implemented and we can only see it through a "welders mask".

It will be fully implemented at the return of Christ for the nation of Israel, then we will see it face to face and the partial gifts shall not be needed.

I believe you're adding "national Israel". Only the faithful receive promises.

I see no exclusion for "national" Israel.

Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psa 50:22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
Isa 42:24 Who gave up Jacob to the looter, and Israel to the plunderers? Was it not the LORD, against whom we have sinned, in whose ways they would not walk, and whose law they would not obey?

 

[Studyman]

Bare with me for a few minutes. I believe there are a few things to keep in mind when dealing with the word "New" and "Old" relative to covenants/testaments.

1. There is a difference between a testament and a covenant. Though in English, there are largely used interchangeably relative to the "NT Testament".

2. Though New is certain different than "Old", "New" is not an indication that everything is different. It is simply a reference to New aspects/things that are different.

3. The New Covenant/Old Covenant distinctions are mostly relative to man. God's Character never changes. Immutability is a key aspect to the plan of God. What pleases God has never changed. Never. It remains an immutable aspect of God's Character.

There are many things I could say based upon these key aspects of God's revelation to humanity through the Scriptures. However, I believe it would be a good "thing" to go through what anyone might find wrong about these three "points" I've listed as facts. Let me know your thoughts.

I will elaborate in other posts.

I like this. For instance, the New Priest of God, is not of the Old Priesthood (Levitical), but of the New (Melchizedek). But the Job of the New Priest, is the same as the Job of the Old Priest.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Lev. 4: 31 "and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him".

From the very beginning, there has been "another voice" in the garden God places His People in. A voice who quotes "some" of God's Word, but whose agenda is to convince men that they are under no obligation to "Yield themselves" a Servant to obey God. As Eve was convinced.

It seems prudent to keep this in mind.

2 Cor. 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Great topic.

 

[Truther]

I believe you're adding "national Israel". Only the faithful receive promises.

I see no exclusion for "national" Israel.

Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psa 50:22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.
Isa 42:24 Who gave up Jacob to the looter, and Israel to the plunderers? Was it not the LORD, against whom we have sinned, in whose ways they would not walk, and whose law they would not obey?

No, we are added to their(FUTURE national Israel's) covenant...


15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, we are added to their(FUTURE national Israel's) covenant...


15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

That is a claim without evidence. There is nothing in those verses that equal your claim. Nothing.

There is no covenant with national Israel. There was a covenant made with Abraham. Abraham fathered many children. We are blessed through the heir of Abraham. Jesus Christ. There are no promises that are made apart from Jesus Christ. None.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, we are added to their(FUTURE national Israel's) covenant...


15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Do you deny that all nations that forget God will be turned into hell?

There is only One Kingdom. Only One surviving Nation. A nation of priests and kings.

Jer 32:32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Jer 32:33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

 

[praise_yeshua]

1. There is a difference between a testament and a covenant. Though in English, there are largely used interchangeably relative to the "NT Testament".


Heb 9:16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.
Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

Here the word is traditionally translated "Testament" in older translations. It is the very basis of the term "New Testament" relative to English Bibles.

The same Greek word underlies both "will, covenant, and testament". In Greek they are used interchangeably but in English we rightfully recognize a difference. Though the Greek source is understood uniquely based upon voicing.

While there is a "New Covenant" relative to the old, here the author is presenting the argument the application relative to the "will" of God's promises requires the death of the "testator".

Hence, you have a distinct purpose relative to old and new covenants. The New Testament is written in the very death of the One who made the promises....

Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

2. Though New is certain different than "Old", "New" is not an indication that everything is different. It is simply a reference to New aspects/things that are different.

The death of the Christ/Testator/Maker was promised before the world began.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Though there are clearer and distinct aspects relative to the New "testament", it is rooted in God's purpose before the world ever began.

It is the purpose of the New Creature/Creation.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Our very human lives that parallels the old and new "covenant". Our lives of faith. We literally live the Gospel. So did Abraham.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

A promise to all nations of men upon the earth of all generations.

 

[praise_yeshua]

3. The New Covenant/Old Covenant distinctions are mostly relative to man. God's Character never changes. Immutability is a key aspect to the plan of God. What pleases God has never changed. Never. It remains an immutable aspect of God's Character.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Though Old, there remain a "image/shadow" within the old that represent. Even in the "old" there is a distinct awareness that God wasn't pleased.

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Before the Old, the New was purposed, executed.

Ultimately, of the Gospel of God's love for humanity that can only be satisfied in Himself. (through the Eternal Son. Jesus Christ).

 

[Truther]

That is a claim without evidence. There is nothing in those verses that equal your claim. Nothing.

There is no covenant with national Israel. There was a covenant made with Abraham. Abraham fathered many children. We are blessed through the heir of Abraham. Jesus Christ. There are no promises that are made apart from Jesus Christ. None.

No, you don't get it. The covenant is with the fathers.

Not me, you or anyone else.

We are merely included in a covenant with the fathers about their physical descendants inheriting the land of their origin.

Our inclusion is partial.

 

[Truther]

Do you deny that all nations that forget God will be turned into hell?

There is only One Kingdom. Only One surviving Nation. A nation of priests and kings.

Jer 32:32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Jer 32:33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

Jesus can save you but not all in Israel at his return as per Jer 31?

God only "picks off" an occasional sinner and cannot save en masse?

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, you don't get it. The covenant is with the fathers.

Not me, you or anyone else.

We are merely included in a covenant with the fathers about their physical descendants inheriting the land of their origin.

Our inclusion is partial.

I don't see a single Scripture being referenced. All you have is a claim without any evidence.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus can save you but not all in Israel at his return as per Jer 31?

God only "picks off" an occasional sinner and cannot save en masse?

You're reserving a exclusive event for this special "class of sinners".

You're promoting "them" when all men are saved the same way. There is no difference.

The promises you're claim are exclusively for Jesus Christ. No one else.

 

[Truther]

I don't see a single Scripture being referenced. All you have is a claim without any evidence.

You don't see our inclusion per Heb 10:15-17?...

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


You think we replace these fellers instead of being included in their covenant?..

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 

[Truther]

You're reserving a exclusive event for this special "class of sinners".

You're promoting "them" when all men are saved the same way. There is no difference.

The promises you're claim are exclusively for Jesus Christ. No one else.

God did not really promise every one of these folks salvation?...


31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You don't see our inclusion per Heb 10:15-17?...

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Sinners being saved. There is no difference in sinners being saved from one ethnic/race to another. Zero. All saved the same way. As I said, you are trying to create a distinction where there isn't one.

You think we replace these fellers instead of being included in their covenant?..

Why are you saying replace? Sinners being saved isn't replacing anything. They do not own the covenant/testament. Jesus Christ does. He alone has those promises. The only heir of Abraham that establishes the covenant you insist is established with just certain sinners. Covenants are earned. Not just gifted. Earned. There is a difference between a Benefactor and a beneficiary. Though Christ died, He is alive forever more. He alone has the keys to death and hell. He alone.

Not you. Not me. Not some supposedly "superior race/ethnic" structure.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

There have been countless arguments over these words since they were written by Paul. There is a Deliver that came out Sion that is the Deliver of all men. Not just some. Not just a few you prefer.

To the Jews were committed the Oracles of God. They were beloved in such an election. That changed when the "Oracles of God" were given to Gentiles.

Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Tit 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Timothy and Titus (A Greek and half breed) were gifted the ministry of reconciliation from the apostle Paul. They "carried the torch" forward.

These are the facts of the history of Christianity.

Arguing that Israel is accomplished in faith apart from any action of their own is extremely reckless relative to the Gospel.

Tell me, was Paul part of the "Church"? or part of "Israel"? How about Peter?

 

[praise_yeshua]

God did not really promise every one of these folks salvation?...

No. God didn't. Not exclusively.

Paul clearly dealt with who is a Jew when he wrote.......

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

That Covenant/Testament is only in Jesus Christ.

Do you prefer to take such honor away from Christ? I don't. I speak of Him. I extol His value. I don't pretend that a faithless group of humans claiming the seed of God honors God.

God has secured "salvation is of the Lord" solely through the efforts of Jesus Christ. The Only heir of Abraham with any of the promises.

Abraham didn't start this. God in Eternity past did. God in the Incarnation has solely established the covenant through Jesus Christ alone.

 

[brightfame52]

No, you don't get it. The covenant is with the fathers.

Not me, you or anyone else.

We are merely included in a covenant with the fathers about their physical descendants inheriting the land of their origin.

Our inclusion is partial.

The Covenant is with the Fathers regarding their Spiritual seed Via Christ