The necessity of a proper view of Time is essential to a proper theology

[Dizerner]

In Heaven though I think the scriptures do show there is a sequence of events and people there experience sequence....wouldn't that be time of some form or type? I think it would have to be.

Heaven is a created thing and classically seen as in time.

This is not the same thing as something Uncreated.

I wonder what God did all those infinite years waiting around until he decided to create?!!

 

[civic]

Heaven is a created thing and classically seen as in time.

This is not the same thing as something Uncreated.

I wonder what God did all those infinite years waiting around until he decided to create?!!

There would be no waiting prior to creation right ?

 

[Dizerner]

There would be no waiting prior to creation right ?

Only if God is outside of time.

 

[civic]

Only if God is outside of time.

He would be prior to creation since time/space is a result of creation right ?

Can their be space without time and vice versa ?

 

[Dizerner]

He would be prior to creation since time/space is a result of creation right ?

Logically prior, but not temporally prior.

Can their be space without time and vice versa ?

Scientists seem to say space, time and matter are all linked—but that's on a physical plane—and time is measured by vibrations of atoms.

Not sure how we could measure time in a spiritual dimension.

 

[Rockson]

Heaven is a created thing and classically seen as in time.

I don't know. I thought I've read many Bible teachers through the years suggest when we're in eternity there is no time and they were referring to heaven.

This is not the same thing as something Uncreated.

Sure by definition God not having been created there would be no way to scale him by sequence.

I wonder what God did all those infinite years waiting around until he decided to create?!!

Outside of our capacity to even slightly understand. In seeking to do so it might be as futile as trying to solve a math problem using addition when all the time one would need an entirely different approach like multiplication. Or it could be like trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Our system of even trying to comprehend something like this might be so far off it's not even worth it to try.

 

[e v e]

There is this "concept" in every single modern theological system that God is "outside time".

He is outside of this current type of corrupt time
and its sorcery 'space'.

the world we (think we) see,
is constantly "renewed"...
and by a consciousness and will
that keeps up our 'reality'.

we experience very slow Time [images],
within this fallen type matrix of reality
and its type of 'mind'

But if we could now see
the stunning reality of God's eden paradise
where images 'refresh at a high frequency'
then there would be no "time",
only continuous paradise.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Interesting Op, One thing I've been taught to believe is that God is not limited by time. Other than that I'm going to have to do some studying. It would seem that time to us, A 24-hour , or a year which includes the seasons and the rotation of the sun and the earth would be a lot different than how God would experience time. I like what you mentioned about the endless measure of time. And I'm also thinking about the fullness of time. Talked about in Galatians 4:4-5 When Jesus came to earth and became one of us in order to save us.

Sorry so long in reply.

1000 years is as one day...... Time as we know it is relative to duration. Relative to experience. Finite things treasure what little "time" they have. Eternal things do not. I believe there has been an inclination in this subject to conflate various things with one another. God is cause. God causes at various logical points in sequence to events. Time at its fundamentalist root is precept upon precept. Line upon line. Progression without Eternal end.

Then there's our age we go from infants to old geezers from the passage of time. Yes time seems like a really interesting subject. I'm going to have to hit the books.

What is God’s relationship to time? | GotQuestions.org

What is God’s relationship to time? Is God above and beyond the restrictions of time?

www.gotquestions.org

Got...... is not my favorite site. Not that they don't summarize the traditional position accurate. They "sorta" do. It is much more complicated than they allow. Of course, anything associated with God can be extremely simple and yet infinitely complex.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sovereign does not mean meticulous control over everything.
Punishment was inflicted by man and not God which caused His death and suffering
God is not a math equation and nothing can be compared to Him. Isaiah 40:25
Christ is also Unique and nothing can be compared to His 2 natures.

hope this helps !!!

YES....

Tradition seems to believe that if something happens contrary to expressed will of God, then this means that God is not in control. Which is ridiculous. God sets limits and defines boundaries. We MOVE within those limits and boundaries of our own will.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

 

[praise_yeshua]

So is God in time, outside of time? I won't pretend to try to understand it all. I do know that time can be a different thing to different people depending on the speed one is going and I"m talking about speeds up to near the speed of light. Of course no human has gone to such speeds but atomic accelerators have demonstrated this or we could say the things that Einstein showed with relatively.

But to say there is no time in eternity or Heaven....seems to me there's sequencing that takes place and any time there's sequencing, stage one, stage two, stage three.....well it would have to be considered time of some sort.

eg. The martyrs in Heaven observed something.....they then responded to the Lord with a question. Rev 6.: 9....he then answered and then they came to an understanding of his will. That's an example of sequence so that can only be considered an example of time of some sort. What do I mean by that? I don't know but anything that has sequence I have to believe could be considered as time.

I agree.

We know that God preexisted His creation. We know God outlasts many things within His creation. The idea that God does not coexist among His creation is a problem. He transcends His Creation but He has chosen to co-exist among His creation.

This is a paradox of a sort. HOWEVER, some theological position INSIST that you see time as they see it because it is a requirement of their theological view. We certainly do not have to do such. We need to see time for what it is.

I believe it flows forth from God just as Love does. Love is a creation among humanity... Yet it is part of the Immaculate Character of God. Time and Love both are Eternal.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm going to "fast forward" a little in this conversation.

I believe that one facet of foreknowledge that is often ignored is the concept of "predictability".

This is a complicated concept to "unravel". However, when it comes to mankind.....God certainly knows US better than we know ourselves. I also believe we have to admit, that we are not very complicated creatures. At least not before being made in the image of Jesus Christ in the new birth.

We can narrow this discussion somewhat to focus upon the important distinct of what happens in "foreknowledge" when "all things are equal". < my description......

Is predictability 100 percent certain or are there complexities that exist that preclude the possibility of predicting the smallest of actions. Here.... we meet the 50/50 threshold found in answering the Yes/No question.

I have to say that I'm a Yes but a "soft" yes. In this answer, I differ from most every person I've ever meet in discussing this topic.

Before I continue, I would like to know your thought thus far.....

Thanks