The Nature of God in the Atonement

[civic]

No need for such drama....

You tell me your #1 issue from Isaiah 53 relative to how you discern God's wraith upon Messiah and I'll work with you on this.

I will sit and watch. Thanks for offering this to him.

 

[TomL]

Sure they are.

Care to debate the topic? How do you value eternal life?

We can start with

Gen 3:23 And God said, Behold, Adam is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now lest at any time he stretch forth his hand, and take of the tree of life and eat, and so he shall live forever—

Immortality only exists in the value of the Godhead/Holy Trinity. To be equal with God is undeniable merit. There is merit to be found in Eternal Life.

Simply list the various historical theories of atonement and what they taught.

Man is never equal with God however.

Ah. Now we are getting somewhere.......

Man apart from God doesn't have Eternal Life. You believe sin is the single reason that God is separated from man. I've said this before and I'll repeat myself again....

Forgiveness of sin doesn't establish any sense of a meaningful relationship with another. I can forgive you or you can forgive me, yet we may never be able to get along. Your mind isn't my mind. My mind isn't your mind.

An independent mind is the issue here.

Um sin results in a need for reconciliation with God and only those reconciled are forgiven

 

[praise_yeshua]

Simply list the various historical theories of atonement and what they taught.

Man is never equal with God however.

In relationship we are. We came forth from our Husband. We are espoused a chase virgin to Christ. There is so much here to talk about. It all goes to back to how God planned to reveal Himself to humanity before this world was ever formed. What you see in the fall of humanity is God's hope in mankind. God's benevolence in making us in the Image of Jesus Christ.

Um sin results in a need for reconciliation with God and only those reconciled are forgiven

God is more than willing to forgive. So focus on this fact....

As such, it is the matter of the independent mind. A "living soul" is an "independent mind".

It is difficult to share in a relationship with anyone with such a "independent mind". We (humans) experience this ourselves throughout our lives.

 

[TomL]

In relationship we are. We came forth from our Husband. We are espoused a chase virgin to Christ. There is so much here to talk about. It all goes to back to how God planned to reveal Himself to humanity before this world was ever formed. What you see in the fall of humanity is God's hope in mankind. God's benevolence in making us in the Image of Jesus Christ.

I repeat

Man is never equal with God however.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I repeat

Man is never equal with God however.

Did I say man was equal with God? Quote me saying that. I didn't even imply it. Rank is important. "image" doesn't establish rank.

 

[TomL]

Did I say man was equal with God? Quote me saying that. I didn't even imply it. Rank is important. "image" doesn't establish rank.

Your words

"In relationship we are."

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your words

"In relationship we are."

Is there a rank among husband and wife?

 

[civic]

Is there a rank among husband and wife?

Interesting topic I will see where this is heading. I have an idea.

 

[TomL]

Is there a rank among husband and wife?

Being called a wife did not make Israel or the church equal with God

 

[praise_yeshua]

Being called a wife did not make Israel or the church equal with God

Never said it did.

Again. Is there a rank in the husband/wife relationship?

 

[TomL]

Never said it did.

Again. Is there a rank in the husband/wife relationship?

An earthly husband/wife relationship is really not the same as a God/believer's relationship

 

[praise_yeshua]

An earthly husband/wife relationship is really not the same as a God/believer's relationship

That isn't what Paul said. He used the analogy of the Church being espoused as a virgin to Christ. Such is unmistakable in the Scriptures. Revelation speaks of our wedding feast.

Paul even spoke of how he was actually speaking about Christ and the church. He called such a "great mystery"....

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

 

[TomL]

That isn't what Paul said. He used the analogy of the Church being espoused as a virgin to Christ. Such is unmistakable in the Scriptures. Revelation speaks of our wedding feast.

Paul even spoke of how he was actually speaking about Christ and the church. He called such a "great mystery"....

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Yes, it is an analogy.

It does not, however, make us equal with Christ or worthy of the honor or worship given Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, it is an analogy.

It does not, however, make us equal with Christ or worthy of the honor or worship given Christ.

It is more than how you're applying an analogy yourself. Analogies have a literal application or they are nothing more than fantasy.

So you rank Christ above His wife? I do too. However, don't take such as a sign of weakness in the wife. Christ died for His wife. How do we not have all things?

What you're failing to recognize is this is the very purpose of God in Adam. God didn't "plant" what Adam was, but what Adam would become. Hope from God for a willing independent mind. We are not too far off from one another. You're just carrying some baggage along with you in this.

 

[TomL]

It is more than how you're applying an analogy yourself. Analogies have a literal application or they are nothing more than fantasy.

So you rank Christ above His wife? I do too. However, don't take such as a sign of weakness in the wife. Christ died for His wife. How do we not have all things?

What you're failing to recognize is this is the very purpose of God in Adam. God didn't "plant" what Adam was, but what Adam would become. Hope from God for a willing independent mind. We are not too far off from one another. You're just carrying some baggage along with you in this.

Well as you state

So you rank Christ above His wife? I do too.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well as you state

So you rank Christ above His wife? I do too.

How do you believe Christ ranks His wife?

 

[Runningman]

How do you believe Christ ranks His wife?

God has a queen?

 

[praise_yeshua]

God has a queen?

Do you have a wife? I've told you this before, I'm sure you don't treat your bride like Christ treats His Bride.

 

[Runningman]

Do you have a wife? I've told you this before, I'm sure you don't treat your bride like Christ treats His Bride.

God having a queen or wife is fringe.

 

[TomL]

How do you believe Christ ranks His wife?

As loved