The misuse and abuse of John 17:3 by Unitarians to promote Unitarianism.

Concerning the word "Word" in John chapter one... It was very common in the culture to use figures of speech and to personalize words and I have stated this before even using an example that we find in the Old Testament when wisdom is referred to as a she. It was the way they wrote. It was not God saying my words have gender. We even do it in our culture when we refer to boats as a she. Nobody thinks boats are living creatures.
If you've witnessed a boat intelligently communicating to people as the Word of God did to OT Prophets (see verses below) then you were either high on something or you were hallucinating. Which is it?
  • 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
  • 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,
Both verses clearly show that the Pre-Incarnate Word of God was a Communicative Person who had all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...)
 
If you've witnessed a boat intelligently communicating to people as the Word of God did to OT Prophets (see verses below) then you were either high on something or you were hallucinating. Which is it?
  • 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
  • 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,
Both verses clearly show that the Pre-Incarnate Word of God was a Communicative Person who had all the attributes of a Person (Mind, Will, Individuality, etc...)
We give boats gender and the biblical writers gave wisdom gender. There are many examples on how they and we put gender on everything. You guys got nothing. Jesus is not God which is why there's no teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. Bits and pieces of words and half verses scattered all over the Bible are not a teaching. A teaching would be a couple of paragraphs or a chapter or two and there's nothing like that anywhere in the entire Bible.
 
We give boats gender and the biblical writers gave wisdom gender. There are many examples on how they and we put gender on everything. You guys got nothing. Jesus is not God which is why there's no teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. Bits and pieces of words and half verses scattered all over the Bible are not a teaching. A teaching would be a couple of paragraphs or a chapter or two and there's nothing like that anywhere in the entire Bible.
Boats do not intelligently communicate to people as the Word of God did to OT Prophets. See these verses:
  • 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
  • 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,
If you persist on thinking that Boats do communicate to people as the Word of God did to OT Prophets then I'll be forced to consider you as either high on something or you were hallucinating. Which is it?
 
Boats do not intelligently communicate to people as the Word of God did to OT Prophets. See these verses:
  • 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
  • 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,
If you persist on thinking that Boats do communicate to people as the Word of God did to OT Prophets then I'll be forced to consider you as either high on something or you were hallucinating. Which is it?
The word of the Lord came unto me telling me the trinity is not biblical and that word is not another God or another God in me.
 
The Trinitarian "explanation" posted here on John 17:3 is no explanation at all.
I will show why:
The Polytheistic Context of John 17:3

In the polytheistic world of the first century, particularly in the Roman Empire, there were many gods, each with their own distinct roles, powers, and spheres of influence. The belief in multiple gods was a central feature of the religions of the time, such as the Roman and Greek pantheons, which deified emperors and had gods for almost every aspect of life. These gods were often seen as separate entities with distinct personalities, not unified in essence or purpose.
Almost correct. I say almost, because gods in polytheism were all "unified" in essence. They had no difference in essence... they all shared it.
By the same token, all humans were unified in the human essence, and seagulls were unified in the seagulls essence.

Monotheism vs. Polytheism: John 17:3, in the context of Jesus' prayer, is a strong assertion of monotheism.
Correct
The reference to "the only true God" would have been a direct challenge to the surrounding polytheism, which included worship of multiple deities.
Correct
Jesus is making a theological statement about the Father's unique position as the one true God, affirming that there is no other God but the Father.
Wonderfully Correct !
This statement, however, does not negate the full divinity of Jesus.
What? 😳

If there is no other God but the Father, how does that not negate the full divinity (or I should say deity) of Jesus? Perhaps we're missing something. Let's see...
Rather, it affirms the role of the Father as the source of all authority and divine revelation.
Well said, and that's why the Father is God: God is the SOURCE of all authority and revelation. If someone is not the Source, then he is not God. Why would anyone consider God somebody who is not the SOURCE?
The Father, in Trinitarian belief, is indeed the "only true God" in the sense that God is one essence (not multiple gods), but the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct persons within that one divine essence.
We know that's what the Trinitarian belief is. We don't know is how they derive that conclusion after all the previous statements

Let's leave aside, for a minute, the problem of God being an essence or nature, and not a Person.
Let's go to the statements above made by @synergy. If God is an essence, and the Father is the True and Only God, then only the Father has that essence. If I say that only Pancho Frijoles is human, or has a human essence, that would mean that there is only one human, Pancho.

Now, let´s come back to the problem of the personhood of God.
If God is an essence or nature, how can an essence love the world? How can we love and serve an essence? How can an essence send Christ? I'm just stating 3 questions to start with. I could make 300 questions: an essence cannot do everything the Bible says God does.

Unitarian Misinterpretation of John 17:3

Unitarians generally believe in the oneness of God, but they often interpret John 17:3 to mean that Jesus is not divine in the same sense as the Father. They argue that since Jesus calls the Father "the only true God," it must mean that the Father alone is God, and Jesus is not truly God. This line of reasoning typically goes as follows:

1. The Father as "the only true God": Jesus is referring to the Father as the "only true God," implying that the Father alone is God, and Jesus is distinct from that identity.
Of course. Jesus and his Father are two distinct persons: we both agree on that. Well, one of those distinct persons is being called by the other distinct person "The Only and True God". What is so difficult to understand here?

2. Jesus as subordinate: Because Jesus calls the Father "the only true God," it suggests that Jesus is a created being, subordinate to the Father and not co-equal or co-eternal with the Father.
Of course. If Only the Father is God, any other Person is subordinated to God. That's why Jesus called his Father in other verses HIS God.

This reasoning leads to Unitarianism, the belief that God is one person (the Father), and that Jesus, while a divinely appointed messenger or figure, is not divine in the same way as God.
Correct.
I will continue on next post.
 
The Misuse of John 17:3 to Promote Unitarianism

While John 17:3 might seem to suggest a distinction between the Father and the Son, interpreting it in isolation and without considering the larger biblical context can lead to a misapplication of the passage. There are several points to consider in responding to the Unitarian interpretation:
Very valid argument. We have to look at the context and not just rely on a single verse.
Still, this single verse is not just any verse. It has a special value because:
  • It was pronounced by Jesus
  • It was said by Jesus to the Father.
  • Jesus mentioned his own role in the same sentence, clarifying who is the Father versus who is Jesus.
  • The verse is part of a conversation, and not of a poem.

1. Contextualizing the Role of Jesus:

In the context of John 17, Jesus is praying to the Father about his mission of revealing the Father to the world. When he says, "this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent," he is not denying his own divinity, but emphasizing the unique role of the Father in the plan of salvation.
On which grounds you say that "he is not denying his own divinity"?
Imagine that I believe that Virgin Mary is God, and I explain: In John 17:3, although Jesus called The Father "The Only and True God", Jesus is not denying Virgin Mary's divinity. How could I jump to that conclusion?
If Jesus is calling Person X "The Only and True God", then Person X is "The Only and True God"! Period. There is no room for anyone else.

Jesus is presenting the Father as the ultimate source of divine revelation and authority.
Excellent. That's why the Father is God. Only God can be the "ultimate source of divine revelation and authority".
I ask again: Who would be interested in calling other Person God if that Person is not the "ultimate SOURCE"?
Only polytheistic pagans would do that.
A polytheistic pagans would have no problem in saying "I worship Hermes, even if the source of the messages Hermes conveys has Zeus as the ultimate source"

This statement is part of a broader theological framework where Jesus is asserting that he, as the Son, has been sent by the Father to reveal the Father to humanity.
Excellent. That's what Jesus does all the time: presenting his credentials as a Person SENT by God to humanity.
The fact that Jesus speaks of himself as the one sent by the Father does not diminish his divinity,
Really? How? Please explain. Explain how God sends Himself to humanity, how God speaks on behalf of Himself, and how God becomes our Intercessor before Himself.
but highlights the distinct roles each person of the Trinity plays in God's redemptive work.
If a Person has the role of Source of Authority and Revelation, then, by definition, that Person is God.
If a Person has the role of Receiver or Representative of that Authority, or Messenger of that Revelation, then, by definition, that Person is NOT God.
Is this so difficult to grasp?
2. The Unity of the Father and the Son:

Trinitarian theology holds that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct persons but share the same divine essence.
Which is not so different than saying that Zeus, Hera and Hermes are distinct persons who share the same divine essence.
In John 10:30, Jesus states, "I and the Father are one," which speaks to their unity in nature.
It could be one in nature, or one in love.
If the meaning were one in nature, then Jesus wouldn't have called the Father "You are The Only and True God". He would have said "We are the Only and True God".
So they must be one in love. This is supported by the fact that Jesus wants us to be One, just as Jesus and His Father are One. Same kind of Oneness. Oneness in love.
The context of the New Testament as a whole affirms that the Son is fully divine (e.g., John 1:1, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:3). To understand John 17:3 correctly, it must be seen in light of these passages, which assert that Jesus shares the same divine nature as the Father.
No. The overwhelming message of the New Testament is that The Father and only the Father is God.
When I say overwhelming I mean that for every verse you present, I can present at least 20. At least!!
And not just more in number, but in specificity. Not poems, not chants, not hymns. Plain language.

3. Jesus' Subordination within the Economic Trinity:

The doctrine of the economic Trinity explains the distinct roles the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit take in the work of salvation. While the Father is the source, the Son is the one sent to accomplish redemption, and the Holy Spirit is the one who applies that work to believers. This does not mean the Son is lesser in nature or essence, but that he has a distinct role in the plan of salvation.
Is the Father just "playing the role" of the Source, a role that any of the two other Persons of the Trinity could play?
Well, at lease from Scripture, we have NO EVIDENCE whatosever that The Father is The Source because He is "playing a role".
The Father is The Source because The Father is God.

I insist: If a Person is The Source, then by definition is God. If a Person is NOT the source, by someone who executes, represents, conveys, mediates, etc. then by definition that person is NOT God.


In John 17:3, Jesus refers to the Father as "the only true God" to underscore the Father’s unique role in salvation and Jesus' mission as the one sent by the Father. The subordination of the Son in this passage refers to his mission (being sent) and role, not to his nature or divinity.
No.
Jesus keeps calling the Father His God after resurrection.
Jesus keeps calling God His God after his exaltation, in the Book of Revelation.
Jesus, after his exaltation, hands the kingdom to God so that God can be all in all
So, his subordination is not temporary. It is eternal.

4. Misuse of Polytheism as a Comparison:

The Unitarian argument that John 17:3 supports a "one God" view that excludes Jesus' divinity often misses the point of the Christian rejection of polytheism. The distinction Jesus makes between the Father and the Son is not a denial of Jesus' divinity, but a statement about their roles within the unified divine essence.
But that's precisely the point of polytheists!!
Aphrodite, Hades and Hermes share the same divine essence. They just have different personalities and perform different roles.

In Trinitarism, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit share the same divine essence. They just have different personalities and perform different roles.

The ancient polytheistic religions worshipped many gods with different powers, but Christianity's monotheism asserts that there is only one true God in essence, and that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one in that essence.

By contrast, the Unitarian interpretation that uses this verse to promote a non-divine Jesus effectively reintroduces a form of subordinationism
Unitarism does not "reintroduce" it. Since Isaiah and Ezekiel, the Messiah was meant to be subordinated to God.
that, in a sense, divides the Godhead into two distinct deities.
No sir. Unitarism does not divide the Godhead because the Godhead is One Single Person, One Single Mind.
There is one and only one distinct deity: The Father.
Who said it? Jesus Christ.


Conclusion: Trinitarian Response

While John 17:3 might appear, at first glance, to support Unitarianism by distinguishing the Father as the "only true God," it must be understood in its full biblical and theological context.
I agree. That has been the focus of other threads.
The surrounding context of John 17
No. There is nothing about the context of John 17 that says something different.
and the broader witness of Scripture affirm that:
It is valid to resort to the broader witness of Scripture. I like that.
Jesus’ distinction between the Father and himself highlights their distinct roles in the plan of salvation, not a difference in divinity.
If the Father is The Source, He is God.
If Jesus is subordinated, and not the Source, He is not God.
So, roles indicate a difference in nature, unless you could demonstrate that at some instances Jesus has been The Source and The Father has been subordinated to the Son.


The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct persons but share the same divine essence, meaning that the Son is fully God, co-equal and co-eternal with the Father.
We know that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches that. It is just a wrong teaching.
Nothing to make fuss about.
In your heart, you love and serve God as One Single Mind.
 
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CONCLUSION:

I agree with our brother @synergy that no verse has to be interpreted in isolation, including John 17:3

Other than that, explanations made over the verse itself have been refuted.
In most instances, they are easy-to-detect non-sequiturs, of the kind:
"The fact that the Moon is the only satellite of the Earth does not preclude that Phobos is also a satellite of the Earth"

Most of the explanations posted by @synergy derive from the polytheistic assumption than several distinct persons can share a divine essence. In other words, that many persons can be God.

The Bible treats God as a Person, not as an essence shared by several persons. ("For so much God loved the world, that He sent his only begotten Son..." (John 3:16). God is treated like a person in more than 500 verses across the Bible. Five hundred verses!
Furthermore, no human being can love an essence, or serve an essence, or be guided by an essence, or be held accountable before an essence.
 
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CONCLUSION:

I agree with our brother @synergy that no verse has to be interpreted in isolation, including John 17:3

Other than that, explanations made over the verse itself have been refuted.
In most instances, they are easy-to-detect non-sequiturs, of the kind:
"The fact that the Moon is the only satellite of the Earth does not preclude that Phobos is also a satellite of the Earth"

Most of the explanations posted by @synergy derive from the polytheistic assumption than several distinct persons can share a divine essence. In other words, that many persons can be God.

The Bible treats God as a Person, not as an essence shared by several persons. ("For so much God loved the world, that He sent his only begotten Son..." (John 3:16). God is treated like a person in more than 500 verses across the Bible. Five hundred verses!
Furthermore, no human being can love an essence, or serve an essence, or be guided by an essence, or be held accountable before an essence.
The Bible will at times treat God as a Essense/Nature. When John 1:1 says "the Word was God" at that point John is referring to God as Essense/Nature. If he was not doing so then we would be all Modalists. That fact alone collapsed and renders inert virtually all your pro Unitarian arguments. That's why it's critical that you yourself follow the advise that you previously agreed to, which is not to interprete verses in isolation.

When we express love and worship for God, we express all that to Jesus, in whom we clearly see the Father.

As for the context of John 17:3, it is undeniably the Greco Roman Polytheistic environment. Only historical illiterates will deny that fact.
 
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An excellent video supporting Trinitarianism starting from the fact that we should view the Bible in its entirety (OT & NT) and not misinterpret John 17:3 in isolation as unitarians, muslims, and judaizers do.

 
This is the Berean Apologetics Ministry Forum, yet so far, I have seen little in the way of cogent or coherent apologetics from your opponents.

J.
Yes, it's been pretty pathetic what Unitarians. JWs, Judaizers, and Islam-Influenced people have contributed to this Forum. We're giving them every opportunity to do so but it's getting to be rather repetitive and boring interacting with them. They seem to be governed by a nihilistic spirit. Maybe we Trinitarians can step it up by digging deeper into the Bible and bring forward topics that Historical Saints have covered such as the Early Church, the Catacombs Church, the Lord's Parousia (Presence) in the Lord's Supper, Christian Predestination, etc... Anything you'd like to share?
 
Yes, it's been pretty pathetic what Unitarians. JWs, Judaizers, and Islam-Influenced people have contributed to this Forum. We're giving them every opportunity to do so but it's getting to be rather repetitive and boring interacting with them. They seem to be governed by a nihilistic spirit. Maybe we Trinitarians can step it up by digging deeper into the Bible and bring forward topics that Historical Saints have covered such as the Early Church, the Catacombs Church, the Lord's Parousia (Presence) in the Lord's Supper, Christian Predestination, etc... Anything you'd like to share?
Not at the moment-I’ll wait to see how others contribute to the discussion on this thread, @synergy.

And I agree, it’s repetitive and dull.

J.
 
Many of us, Christian apologists, talk to unitarians every day, whether it be Jews, Muslims or even Unitarians that claim to be Christians. With that said we must be able to, at all times and in all places, provide a coherent response to anyone who denies the Biblical Doctrines, one of them being The Divinity of Christ.

In this post, I will take a look at the standard unitarian prooftext, John 17:3.Every single one of us has heard a Jehovah’s Witness try to say that John 17:3 destroys the Trinitarian position. But is that really so? Well, let’s take a look at it.

John 17:3:

“And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent” —Jesus the Messiah. John 17:3 (ISV)

Now our dear unitarian friends will obviously jump on it and say that we are done, but that is indeed not so. In our Trinitarian Theology The Father is indeed The Only True God, so is The Son, and The Spirit! Jesus can easily say that Father is The Only True God yet not deny his divinity for The Son is THE SAME GOD as the Father! So in saying that The Father is The Only True God, Jesus is in fact, affirming HIS OWN divinity for he is the same God as The Father! Now our dear unitarian friends are also know for detailed eisegesis and out of context interpretation, so let’s see the context of verse 3! Verses 1-4(every verse quoted in this article is from the ISV):

After Jesus had said this, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, so that the Son may glorify you. For you have given him authority over all humanity so that he might give eternal life to all those you gave him. And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent—Jesus the Messiah. I glorified you on earth by completing the task you gave me to do. Verse 5-“So now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world existed.

Now looking at these verses, tell me, which created creature can speak to God like that? I have glorified you, now you glorify me? The answer is simple, there is no such creature. Christ is not a creature. He is the Eternal One, as per John 17:5!

John 17:5 makes it clear that Jesus had the glory, with the Father, before the world even existed. The Expositor’s Greek New Testament puts it greatly:

“The precise character of the glorification He looks for is here presented. It is παρὰ σεαυτῷ, and it is a restoration to the glory He had enjoyed πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι. By παρὰ σεαυτῷ it is *rendered impossible to understand παρὰ σοί of an “ideal” pre-existence;* because these two expressions are here *equivalents*, and Christ *cannot be supposed* to have prayed for an “ideal” glory when He asked that God would glorify Him παρὰ σεαυτῷ. “There is, consequently, here, as in John 6:62, John 8:58, a continuity of the consciousness of the historical Christ with the Logos.”

Furthermore, we shall demonstrate from another writing of John, namely 1 John 5:20,that Christ is indeed THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

1 John 5:20:

“We also know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true God. We are in union with the one who is true, his Son Jesus the Messiah, who is the true God and eternal life”. 1 John 5:20(ISV)

Now again, even tho clearly here THE SON is referred to as The True God, our unitarian friends would try to deny it so let’s just have fun with refuting their eisegesis. First of all, the nearest antecedent to God is Jesus Christ, that alone should get our unitarian friends to drop their eisegetical practices,however, most of them don’t, so let’s put a nail in the coffin of the unitarian interpretation here, that The True God, in fact DOES NOT refer to Christ. John is creating an inclusio here,

1 John 1:1-2 <(inclusio)> 1 John 5:20-21

What is inclusio now? In biblical studies, inclusio is a literary device based on a concentric principle, also known as bracketing or an envelope structure, which consists of creating a frame by placing similar or same (repeated) material at the beginning and end of a section. What existed from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we observed and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life! This life was revealed to us, and we have seen it and testify about it. We declare to you this eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us. 1 John 1:1-2

Now we see that Christ,The Word is declared to be THE ETERNAL LIFE at the BEGINNING of the Epistle to prove that is the case at the end of the epistle and to prove that indeed John is creating an inclusio here,just as he did previously – John 1:1 <(inclusio)> John 1:18 – we are going to quote Prof. Stuart’s Letters to Dr. Channing, p. 83. It says:”There is no instance in the writings of John, in which the appellation life, and “eternal” life is bestowed upon the Father, to designate him as the author of spiritual and eternal life; and as this occurs so frequently in John’s writings as applied to Christ, the *laws of exegesis require* that both the phrase “the true God,” and “eternal life,” should be applied to him.”

So what do we have here? Well,the phrase True God and The Eternal Life have to be referring to Christ for the title “eternal life” is only used of HIM when talking about a person,if we affirm that,as there is no way around it,then clearly the inclusion here is affirmed and indeed Christ is The True God!

Christ is affirmed to be THE ETERNAL LIFE at the very BEGINNING of the Epistle and at its very END,A PERFECT INCLUSIO! So not only does John 17 itself prove that Christ preexisted all of creation,all of the world,but when taking into account all the writings of John,he is declared to be The True God himself! I have never met a unitarian who has been able to respond to this argumentation.

Use this,my brothers in Christ,to spread the message of salvation to our unitarian brothers in humanity,everyone needs Christ,so do they!

https://adlucem.co/unitarianism/1319-2/#:~:text=Contact-,Unsustainability of the unitarian position in the light of John 17 and the first epistle of John by Vladimir Šušić.,-Home

J.
 
Even though it is true, as the Trinity booklet points out, that the word Trinity is not to be found in the pages of Scripture, the doctrine certainly is “clearly and consistently presented” there, as was Edmund Fortman’s’ point. The Bible asserts there is but ONE God, and yet also claims that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit —all three—that ONE God! Hard to understand? Perhaps. Unbiblical, no! What people need to understand is that the Bible is not a theology book with a chapter explaining the nature of God, the nature of man, and so on. We might wish it to be so, but it is not that way. Bible scholars throughout the centuries who read the Scriptures carefully and systematically—comparing Scripture with Scripture, armed with a cultural understanding of the times in which it was written, and a knowledge of the language and grammar—have arrived at theological systems and put this information down in theology books. The Bible itself just makes certain assertions—human beings have to figure out how it fits together! Theology is the study of God or things divine. Christology is the study of Christ.

Incidentally, the WTBTS has a Christology of its own, but you would never know it by reading the Trinity booklet. They believe and teach that Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel— both before he was born as a man and again now after his resurrection. Can we find that doctrine “clearly and consistently presented” in the Bible—that Jesus is Michael? No, Michael is only mentioned a few times in the Bible, and it never claims that Michael and Jesus are the same person. In order to arrive at that conclusion, you must read the WATCHTOWER** magazine or the WTBTS’s own theology book, Insight on the Scriptures. So ineffectual and weak is their argument that you will be hard pressed to find a JW who is willing to even make an attempt to prove that Jesus is Michael using the Scriptures.

When discussing this subject of the Deity of Christ with a JW, we always insist that they also defend the WTBTS’s teaching about Jesus being Michael from the Bible. One JW elder, who only wanted to “play offense,” told me that the Watchtower Society does not teach that Jesus is Michael! Incredible! He stuck to his story until I produced the documentation (a photocopy of the Feb.1, 1994 WATCHTOWER, pg. 6) proving that they do, in fact, teach that! How can JWs demand that we prove the Deity of Christ from the Scriptures, and yet, be unable and unwilling to prove their own Christology from the Bible?

Moreover, as I have already said, the Trinity booklet informs us of all the reasons why Jesus cannot be God without even mentioning, let alone making their case, that Jesus is Michael. Why is that, do you suppose?

Do The Ante-Nicene Fathers Agree With The Watchtower Society?
The Watchtower Society dances the “two-story two-step” when it comes to the Ante-Nicene Fathers. Story #1 is employed when it seems convenient to infer that the early Fathers were the “early Christians” [13. The booklet refers to the ante-Nicene Fathers as “the early Christians” on the last page of the Trinity booklet. Keep in mind that in order to be considered a Christian, one needs to be a JW. There are no true Christians outside of the WTBTS organization. If these men were Christians, though, when and how did the Great Apostasy develop?] doctrinally with the Church of today. They need this connection to the early days— some connection, as it were, with Jesus and his Apostles—so they do not appear as just another Johnny-come-lately, nineteenth-century, anti-Christian, religious cult, which, in fact, they are. ☺ The Trinity booklet contains a fine example of Story #1 on page 7 which presents a list of Ante-Nicene Fathers and makes it appear—through linguistic sleight-of-hand—that these men, who were closer in time to Jesus and His teachings, believed pretty much as the WTBTS does today.

Story #2 comes into play when it becomes necessary to explain why the WTBTS—calling itself a Christian organization—rejects all essential Christian doctrine as understood and taught for 1900+ years. This is when the WTBTS claims that the people who came on the scene soon after the death of the Apostles (the Ante-Nicene Fathers!) apostatized from the true Christian faith—which the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society thankfully “restored” when they came on the scene in the late-nineteenth century. These Ante-Nicene apostates are to blame for the infusion of Pagan philosophy into the Church, at which point the Christian Church became “Christendom.” More on Story #2 later, right now we’ll look at their portrayal of Story #1—that the Ante-Nicene Fathers believed similarly to the WTBTS when it comes to the nature of God and Christ.

The ante-Nicene Fathers were acknowledged to have been leading religious teachers in the early centuries after Christ’s birth. What they taught is of interest. Justin Martyr, who died about 165 C.E., called the prehuman Jesus a created angel who is “other than the God who made all things.”[14. Should You Believe …, p.7]

Really? Justin Martyr called Jesus a created angel? Justin identifies Jesus, the Son of God, with “the Angel of the LORD” Who appeared to men in the OT times, but never refers to Him as a created being. Let’s look at Justin Martyr’s own words.

…the Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God. And of old He appeared in the shape of fire and in the likeness of an angel to Moses and to the other prophets; but now in the times of your reign, having, as we before said, become Man by a virgin. . . [15. Justin Martyr, “The First Apology of Justin,” in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., THE ANTE-NICENE FATHERS, rev. by A. Cleveland Coxe,vol. I (1884; reprint, Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1989), p.184]… but now you will permit me first to recount the prophecies, which I wish to do in order to prove that Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts. . . [16. Justin Martyr, “Dialogue with Trypho,” in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., THE ANTE-NICENE FATHERS, rev. by A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. I (1884; reprint,Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1989), p.212]

Like Justin Martyr, we believe Christ appeared as the Angel of the LORD to Moses and other Old Testament saints, but also like Justin, we believe Him to be WHO He said He is—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob! In fact, the “Angel of the LORD” is the person who identifies Himself by the name of YHWH in Exodus 3:1-14!

What about Irenaeus? According to the Trinity booklet:

Irenaeus…showed that Jesus is not equal to the “One true and only God,” who is “supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other.” [17. Should You Believe …, p.7]

Irenaeus believed that the Father is the head of Christ just as the Bible teaches, and as we also believe. But keep in mind headship does not imply superiority of nature. Women are under the headship of their husbands, but they are not inferior to them. Men and women share the nature of humanity. But as to Christ’s nature, Irenaeus believed, as we do, that Jesus Christ is God.

3. Therefore, by remitting sins, He did indeed heal man, while He also manifested Himself who He was. For if no one can forgive sins but God alone, while the Lord remitted them and healed men, it is plain that He was Himself the Word of God made the Son of man, receiving from the Father the power of remission of sins; since He was man, and since He was God, in order that since as man He suffered for us, so as God He might have compassion on us, and forgive us our debts, in which we were made debtors to God, our Creator. [18. Irenaeus, “Irenaeus Against Heresies,” in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., THE ANTE-NICENE FATHERS, rev. by A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. I (1884; reprint,Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1989), p.545]

Next, we have Clement of Alexandria as portrayed in the Trinity booklet:

Clement of Alexandria, who died about 215 C.E. called Jesus in his pre-human existence “a creature” but called God “the uncreated and imperishable and only true God.” He said that the Son “is next to the only omnipotent Father” but not equal to him. [19. Trinity, p.7]

Did Clement consider Jesus to be unequal to the Father—a mere creature? It doesn’t seem so from what he said here:

What therefore he says, “from the beginning,” the Presbyter explained to this effect, that the beginning of generation is not separated from the beginning of the Creator. For when he says, “That which was from the beginning,” he touches upon the generation without beginning of the Son, who is co-existent with the Father. There was, then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of substance, one with the Father, is eternal and uncreate. [20. Clement of Alexandria, “Fragments from Cassiodorus,” in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., THE ANTE-NICENE FATHERS, rev. by A. Cleveland Coxe,vol. II (1884; reprint, Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1989), p.574]

Clement was making the point that Jesus—although “generated” or begotten of the Father—was generated “without beginning” and is, therefore, as eternal as the Father and not created. After misrepresenting Clement’s views, the Trinity booklet goes on to deliver the bombshell that:

Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E., taught the supremacy of God. He observed: “The Father is different from the Son (another), as he is greater; as he who begets is different from him who is begotten; he who sends, different from him who is sent.”[21. Should You Believe …, p.7]

Oh, NO! Tertullian believed the Father and the Son are different persons? Well, duh! Trinitarians—like Tertullian and like us—believe there are different persons within the nature of the Godhead—three of them, in fact! That’s why Trinitarians happily sing the Holy, Holy, Holy hymn that concludes with “God in three persons, blessed Trinity.” Remember that old song? The Father is the First Person, the Son is the Second Person, and the Holy Spirit is the Third Person all of whom have the same nature. It’s hard to believe the WTBTS thinks this is such a big secret! Well, besides the shocking news that Tertullian seems to believe there is more than one person in the Godhead, what else did he have to say about the nature of God?

If the number of the Trinity also offends you, as if it were not connected in the simple Unity, I ask you how it is possible for a Being who is merely and absolutely One and Singular, to speak in the plural phrase, saying, “Let us make man in our image, and after our own likeness;” whereas He ought to have said, “Let me make man in my own image, and after my own likeness;” as being a unique and singular Being?…He is either deceiving or amusing us in speaking plurally, if He is One only and singular. Or was it to the angels that He spoke, as the Jews interpret the passage, because these also acknowledge not the Son?…Nay, it was because He had already His Son close at His side, as a second Person, His own Word, and a third Person also, the Spirit in the Word, that He purposely adopted the plural phrase…[22. Tertullian, “Against Praxeas,” in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., THE ANTE-NICENE FATHERS, rev. by A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. III (1884; reprint, Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1989), p.606]We have been taught that He proceeds forth from God, and in that procession He is generated; so that He is the Son of God, and is called God from unity of substance with God. For God, too, is a Spirit. Even when the ray is shot from the sun, it is still part of the parent mass; the sun will still be in the ray, because it is a ray of the sun—there is no division of substance, but merely an extension. Thus Christ is Spirit of Spirit, and God of God, as light of light is kindled. The material matrix remains entire and unimpaired, though you derive from it any number of shoots possessed of its qualities; so, too, that which has come forth out of God is at once God and the Son of God, and the two are one. In this way also, as He is Spirit of Spirit and God of God, He is made a second in manner of existence—in position, not in nature; and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth. This ray of God, then, as it was always foretold in ancient times, descending into a certain virgin, and made flesh in her womb, is in His birth God and man united. [23. Tertullian, “Apology,” in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., THE ANTENICENEFATHERS, rev. by A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. III (1884; reprint, Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1989), pp.34-35]

This next quote by Hippolytus is the one I most love to show JWs at the kitchen table, along with a photocopy of Hippolytus’actual words, because even the most militantly obtuse JW has no choice but to recognize that Hippolytus believed the opposite of what the WTBTS claims he believed. According to the WTBTS:

Hippolytus, who died about 235 C.E., said that God is “the one God, the first and the only One, the Maker and Lord of all,” who “had nothing co-eval [of equal age] with him…But he was One, alone by himself; who willing it, called into being what had no being before,” such as the created pre-human Jesus. [24. Should You Believe …, p.7]

What Hippolytus actually said is:

God, subsisting alone, and having nothing contemporaneous with Himself, determined to create the world. And conceiving the world in mind, and willing and uttering the word, He made it; and straightway it appeared, formed as it had pleased Him…Beside Him there was nothing; but He, while existing alone, yet existed in plurality. [25. Hippolytus, “Against the Heresy of One Noetus,” in Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., THE ANTE-NICENE FATHERS, rev. by A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. V (1884; reprint, Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1989), p.227]

God, before the creation of anything, existed in plurality! There can be no doubt that the WTBTS knows what Hippolytus actually taught and deliberately edited this out of their deceitful “quotation.” So when they close this section on the Ante-Nicene Fathers with the statement that “the testimony of the Bible and of history makes clear that the Trinity was unknown throughout Biblical times and for several centuries thereafter,” [26. Should You Believe …, p.7] they show themselves to be shameless liars.

Story #2—The Great Apostasy

Gather around, children. We’re about to hear the story about how the Christian Church became nasty old “Christendom.”

This disreputable history of the Trinity fits in with what Jesus and his apostles foretold would follow their time. They said that there would be an apostasy, a deviation, a falling away from true worship until Christ’s return, when true worship would be restored before God’s day of destruction of this system of things.[27. Should You Believe …, p.9]Throughout the ancient world, as far back as Babylonia, the worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common…And after the death of the apostles, such pagan beliefs began to invade Christianity. [28. Should You Believe …, p.11]

Don't want to derail the thread @synergy.
 
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Many of us, Christian apologists, talk to unitarians every day, whether it be Jews, Muslims or even Unitarians that claim to be Christians. With that said we must be able to, at all times and in all places, provide a coherent response to anyone who denies the Biblical Doctrines, one of them being The Divinity of Christ.

In this post, I will take a look at the standard unitarian prooftext, John 17:3.Every single one of us has heard a Jehovah’s Witness try to say that John 17:3 destroys the Trinitarian position. But is that really so? Well, let’s take a look at it.

John 17:3:

“And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent” —Jesus the Messiah. John 17:3 (ISV)

Now our dear unitarian friends will obviously jump on it and say that we are done, but that is indeed not so. In our Trinitarian Theology The Father is indeed The Only True God, so is The Son, and The Spirit! Jesus can easily say that Father is The Only True God yet not deny his divinity for The Son is THE SAME GOD as the Father! So in saying that The Father is The Only True God, Jesus is in fact, affirming HIS OWN divinity for he is the same God as The Father! Now our dear unitarian friends are also know for detailed eisegesis and out of context interpretation, so let’s see the context of verse 3! Verses 1-4(every verse quoted in this article is from the ISV):

After Jesus had said this, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, so that the Son may glorify you. For you have given him authority over all humanity so that he might give eternal life to all those you gave him. And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent—Jesus the Messiah. I glorified you on earth by completing the task you gave me to do. Verse 5-“So now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world existed.

Now looking at these verses, tell me, which created creature can speak to God like that? I have glorified you, now you glorify me? The answer is simple, there is no such creature. Christ is not a creature. He is the Eternal One, as per John 17:5!

John 17:5 makes it clear that Jesus had the glory, with the Father, before the world even existed. The Expositor’s Greek New Testament puts it greatly:

“The precise character of the glorification He looks for is here presented. It is παρὰ σεαυτῷ, and it is a restoration to the glory He had enjoyed πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι. By παρὰ σεαυτῷ it is *rendered impossible to understand παρὰ σοί of an “ideal” pre-existence;* because these two expressions are here *equivalents*, and Christ *cannot be supposed* to have prayed for an “ideal” glory when He asked that God would glorify Him παρὰ σεαυτῷ. “There is, consequently, here, as in John 6:62, John 8:58, a continuity of the consciousness of the historical Christ with the Logos.”

Furthermore, we shall demonstrate from another writing of John, namely 1 John 5:20,that Christ is indeed THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

1 John 5:20:

“We also know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we may know the true God. We are in union with the one who is true, his Son Jesus the Messiah, who is the true God and eternal life”. 1 John 5:20(ISV)

Now again, even tho clearly here THE SON is referred to as The True God, our unitarian friends would try to deny it so let’s just have fun with refuting their eisegesis. First of all, the nearest antecedent to God is Jesus Christ, that alone should get our unitarian friends to drop their eisegetical practices,however, most of them don’t, so let’s put a nail in the coffin of the unitarian interpretation here, that The True God, in fact DOES NOT refer to Christ. John is creating an inclusio here,

1 John 1:1-2 <(inclusio)> 1 John 5:20-21

What is inclusio now? In biblical studies, inclusio is a literary device based on a concentric principle, also known as bracketing or an envelope structure, which consists of creating a frame by placing similar or same (repeated) material at the beginning and end of a section. What existed from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we observed and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life! This life was revealed to us, and we have seen it and testify about it. We declare to you this eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us. 1 John 1:1-2

Now we see that Christ,The Word is declared to be THE ETERNAL LIFE at the BEGINNING of the Epistle to prove that is the case at the end of the epistle and to prove that indeed John is creating an inclusio here,just as he did previously – John 1:1 <(inclusio)> John 1:18 – we are going to quote Prof. Stuart’s Letters to Dr. Channing, p. 83. It says:”There is no instance in the writings of John, in which the appellation life, and “eternal” life is bestowed upon the Father, to designate him as the author of spiritual and eternal life; and as this occurs so frequently in John’s writings as applied to Christ, the *laws of exegesis require* that both the phrase “the true God,” and “eternal life,” should be applied to him.”

So what do we have here? Well,the phrase True God and The Eternal Life have to be referring to Christ for the title “eternal life” is only used of HIM when talking about a person,if we affirm that,as there is no way around it,then clearly the inclusion here is affirmed and indeed Christ is The True God!

Christ is affirmed to be THE ETERNAL LIFE at the very BEGINNING of the Epistle and at its very END,A PERFECT INCLUSIO! So not only does John 17 itself prove that Christ preexisted all of creation,all of the world,but when taking into account all the writings of John,he is declared to be The True God himself! I have never met a unitarian who has been able to respond to this argumentation.

Use this,my brothers in Christ,to spread the message of salvation to our unitarian brothers in humanity,everyone needs Christ,so do they!

https://adlucem.co/unitarianism/1319-2/#:~:text=Contact-,Unsustainability of the unitarian position in the light of John 17 and the first epistle of John by Vladimir Šušić.,-Home

J.
Thanks for that information. I appreciate Prof Stuart's remarks but I feel that it's John 1:1 that clearly nails Unitarianism to the wall. John 1:1 is clearly the uncontested Unitarian Heresy Slayer, Par Excellence. Also, Prof Stuart's remarks lack the fact that the word "God" can stand for Essence/Nature so that the Unitarian is not left scratching his head still clinging to the idea that the word "God" always and in all cases stands only for one and only one Person, namely the Father.
 
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